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CHEATERS!!!!!

DeletedUser33297

I caught a guild mate cheating me in the swap thread...65 fps...third time I reported him to the Admins. Thet gave him a 2 week suspinsion from the swap threads.

Most people play a couple hours a day, maybe a few hrs. It's really easy to lie and cheat fps if people dont count whats owed tham. That makes me MAD.
 
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DeletedUser33297

The third time you reported him and all they did was suspend him from a few threads? I'd find a new guild...
Not easy Grav....I have been given like 8 GB kits for free from these people...they seem to be honorable, they just don't have the vision to see a snake in the grass. Now I find out thru intel hes notoriously a cheater....whats that say about my Admins. Sad day. :(:(
 

DeletedUser29726

It says he does enough for them that they don't want to lose him completely. Or that he has friends in guild that they risk losing if they cut him and his friends are more worthwhile than he is. It's up to you if the total package of the guild is worth it to you. Leading a guild in this game is a very tricky balancing act if it's of any real size. Daily problems become numerous, and internal politics make hard decisions like removals even harder. Likely from the leaders perspective they feel bad about your lost FP but hope that they're providing enough benefit to members that they'll want to stay despite the occasional bad experience. If they have indeed done as much for you as you said, they'd probably be hurt that you can't cope with a 'mere 65 FP' loss after 'all they've done for you'.

If you like it enough to want to stay I'd just avoid exposure to the threads until they look cleaned up. Make other deals to level your buildings or self-level and offer up the spots for people to snipe as you get closer to level for free FP.
 

Victoria and Albert

Active Member
We will often post the number of points on the GB after the swap post. Let's say you put points on a GB and then post your own GB for the next person to pick up. Immediately make one more post with the exact number you have already on the GB. It will be really obvious to everyone if your number does not increase by the amount of the point thread. And it will be obvious who didn't put points down.We caught a cheater this way and I booted him from the guild immediately.
 

DeletedUser33297

Well, now I have been kicked from the guild, because I have demanded we play fair. And whats funny is thet spoke for me, saying why I left:
As you all no doubt aware Trink has had his membership withdrawn. This action has not been taken lightly and all the Guild Owners are upset at this outcome.
There had been an issue raised around a shortage of FP from the swap threads between Trink and another player. The matter was investigates and an acceptable explanation was provided. Restitution over and above the short amount was made and further administrative action was taken against the offender and the matter had we thought been dealt with to the satisfaction of all involved.
Sadly this has proved not to be the case and Trink refused to let the matter go. He has been actively seeking a new guild for some time as a result and coupled with his messages to Global, to the Guild Owners and also an offensive message to the other player a decision was made to remove him from membership.
He has been a valued member and we were truly impressed with his progress to the point were we could see him a leader in the guild but sadly this will not now occur here. We do wish him every success in going forward and hope he enjoys his membership in The Recruit Council.”

From mike


If you cheat me, I remember
 
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Volodya

Well-Known Member
Well, now I have been kicked from the guild, because I have demanded we play fair. And whats funny is thet spoke for me, saying why I left:
As you all no doubt aware Trink has had his membership withdrawn. This action has not been taken lightly and all the Guild Owners are upset at this outcome.
There had been an issue raised around a shortage of FP from the swap threads between Trink and another player. The matter was investigates and an acceptable explanation was provided. Restitution over and above the short amount was made and further administrative action was taken against the offender and the matter had we thought been dealt with to the satisfaction of all involved.
Sadly this has proved not to be the case and Trink refused to let the matter go. He has been actively seeking a new guild for some time as a result and coupled with his messages to Global, to the Guild Owners and also an offensive message to the other player a decision was made to remove him from membership.
He has been a valued member and we were truly impressed with his progress to the point were we could see him a leader in the guild but sadly this will not now occur here. We do wish him every success in going forward and hope he enjoys his membership in The Recruit Council.”

From mike


If you cheat me, I remember

What "acceptable explanation" was provided that apparently didn't satisfy you? People do forget or get distracted from time to time--I've done it myself (although not for years, as far as I know) and had it done to me. If the other player made restitution, including a premium, and was suspended from the swap threads besides, why wasn't that sufficient? Now, if the other player said something like oops, thought I'd get away with it but I guess I've been caught, clearly that remains a problem regardless of the restitution and penalty. It doesn't sound like that was the case however.
 

DeletedUser31882

Well, now I have been kicked from the guild, because I have demanded we play fair. And whats funny is thet spoke for me, saying why I left:
As you all no doubt aware Trink has had his membership withdrawn. This action has not been taken lightly and all the Guild Owners are upset at this outcome.
There had been an issue raised around a shortage of FP from the swap threads between Trink and another player. The matter was investigates and an acceptable explanation was provided. Restitution over and above the short amount was made and further administrative action was taken against the offender and the matter had we thought been dealt with to the satisfaction of all involved.
Sadly this has proved not to be the case and Trink refused to let the matter go. He has been actively seeking a new guild for some time as a result and coupled with his messages to Global, to the Guild Owners and also an offensive message to the other player a decision was made to remove him from membership.
He has been a valued member and we were truly impressed with his progress to the point were we could see him a leader in the guild but sadly this will not now occur here. We do wish him every success in going forward and hope he enjoys his membership in The Recruit Council.”

From mike

When a game message to the guild sounds like a speech from a politician, I get slight nausea. Sad.

What "acceptable explanation" was provided that apparently didn't satisfy you? People do forget or get distracted from time to time--I've done it myself (although not for years, as far as I know) and had it done to me. If the other player made restitution, including a premium, and was suspended from the swap threads besides, why wasn't that sufficient? Now, if the other player said something like oops, thought I'd get away with it but I guess I've been caught, clearly that remains a problem regardless of the restitution and penalty. It doesn't sound like that was the case however.

Good questions, but the way I read the situation was: TrinkOne got cheated(Signs point to malicious, but it 'could' have been accidental), TrinkOne rattled the Cage due to justified anger, TrinkOne was 'kicked'(As in, involuntarily removed from the guild), Mike calms the guild masses with a politico speech, TrinkOne's anger deepens.

Granted, this is all told from TrinkOne's perspective, so obvious bias vigilance activated! Since I have no reason to believe TrinkOne is bamboozling us(Maybe it's a meta bamboozle?), I take the story at face value and judge the described actions accordingly. Sounds like the admins are, at best, aware and allow the cheater to continue their malicious actions. Circumstantial evidence could point to direct collusion, especially if said cheater is part of the guild leadership. More info will hopefully clarify. *shrugs*

Related topic note to cheaters: This is why I also feel slight nausea whenever someone in real life tells me they believe bad people will suffer from 'bad karma' and get their just desserts. With the right application and power tools, bad people have the freedom to continue exploiting to their hearts content. Also Sad.
 

Volodya

Well-Known Member
When a game message to the guild sounds like a speech from a politician, I get slight nausea. Sad.



Good questions, but the way I read the situation was: TrinkOne got cheated(Signs point to malicious, but it 'could' have been accidental), TrinkOne rattled the Cage due to justified anger, TrinkOne was 'kicked'(As in, involuntarily removed from the guild), Mike calms the guild masses with a politico speech, TrinkOne's anger deepens.

Granted, this is all told from TrinkOne's perspective, so obvious bias vigilance activated! Since I have no reason to believe TrinkOne is bamboozling us(Maybe it's a meta bamboozle?), I take the story at face value and judge the described actions accordingly. Sounds like the admins are, at best, aware and allow the cheater to continue their malicious actions. Circumstantial evidence could point to direct collusion, especially if said cheater is part of the guild leadership. More info will hopefully clarify. *shrugs*

Related topic note to cheaters: This is why I also feel slight nausea whenever someone in real life tells me they believe bad people will suffer from 'bad karma' and get their just desserts. With the right application and power tools, bad people have the freedom to continue exploiting to their hearts content. Also Sad.
I took it on face value that Trink was unambiguously wronged until he quoted the guild owner's response. Now I'm agnostic until/unless we learn what the "acceptable explanation" was. The one time I remember missing a payment we had to rush our dog to the emergency vet (she's fine; thanks for asking!) I paid when reminded, with apologies and a voluntary premium, and that was the end of it. Of course Trink doesn't "owe" us any further discussion; I'm just curious.
 

DeletedUser26965

DeletedUser33297

All good points...thats what I am looking for. These people have treated me more than fair. Way more than fair. Free kits for like 8 GBs. BUT, I was a professional soldier....we have rules.....and you dont throw one person under the bus for the sake of another. It doesnt happen. This guy has a lvl 80+ Arc...I presume he was more valuable than I was. And for the record...mistakes DO happen, but its highly unlikely that they happen 3 times, in 3 threads, for 65 points. Its my theory that this player uses posts like mine, where I post in 5 or 6 threads, and I wont count whats owed me.
 

DeletedUser26965

Free kits for like 8 GBs. BUT, I was a professional soldier....we have rules.....and you dont throw one person under the bus for the sake of another. It doesnt happen.
What's a GB kit?

I remember in Basic once out in the field leaving my weapon propped up against a tree while I did some work, drill sergeant buried it in sand and I had to low crawl to find it. Now I understand well the lesson learned however could you imagine that real world? I clearly would have been thrown under the bus lol, assuming of course he would do like that in the real world.

Yea....Its my fault Joe. I accept that. I cant change who I am.
If all is as you say it is, yes you should have avoided putting anymore fp's on his GB's in the swap threads, however the guild should have kicked him instead. It's a blessing you're not in such a guild anymore.
 

DeletedUser33297

First, Thank you for service Joe...11Bravo...lol Unless you were a Marine...which I highly doubt becasuse jarheads cant type :D:D
A GB kit...Colonial goods traded for BA goods. etc Cost me 1700 BA goods traded up for a Cape or Arc package.
 

DeletedUser33297

It says he does enough for them that they don't want to lose him completely. Or that he has friends in guild that they risk losing if they cut him and his friends are more worthwhile than he is. It's up to you if the total package of the guild is worth it to you. Leading a guild in this game is a very tricky balancing act if it's of any real size. Daily problems become numerous, and internal politics make hard decisions like removals even harder. Likely from the leaders perspective they feel bad about your lost FP but hope that they're providing enough benefit to members that they'll want to stay despite the occasional bad experience. If they have indeed done as much for you as you said, they'd probably be hurt that you can't cope with a 'mere 65 FP' loss after 'all they've done for you'.

If you like it enough to want to stay I'd just avoid exposure to the threads until they look cleaned up. Make other deals to level your buildings or self-level and offer up the spots for people to snipe as you get closer to level for free FP.
Excellent Advice.....Thank you for your input...I think you nailed it. :)
 

DeletedUser33297

I took it on face value that Trink was unambiguously wronged until he quoted the guild owner's response. Now I'm agnostic until/unless we learn what the "acceptable explanation" was. The one time I remember missing a payment we had to rush our dog to the emergency vet (she's fine; thanks for asking!) I paid when reminded, with apologies and a voluntary premium, and that was the end of it. Of course Trink doesn't "owe" us any further discussion; I'm just curious.
As for face value, I have nothing to gain here, except wisdom as to how to handle a specific issue. All I care about at this point, is how I might have been a better person. I dont think I was outta line, but you never know until you ask the public. :rolleyes:
 

DeletedUser31882

As for face value, I have nothing to gain here, except wisdom as to how to handle a specific issue. All I care about at this point, is how I might have been a better person. I dont think I was outta line, but you never know until you ask the public. :rolleyes:

That's where I believe Volodya and I are putzing on the fence. We want more information so we can give better feedback. I did kinda just jump into the weeds without talking to the topic... bad habit of mine.

From current information: My opinion is similar to others. It's sad/upsetting that cheaters are enabled by leadership. Top it off with a guild kick and the message delivered, I say good riddance to bad rubbish.

More detailed dissection:
TrinkOne said:
Well, now I have been kicked from the guild, because I have demanded we play fair. And whats funny is thet spoke for me, saying why I left:

As you all no doubt aware Trink has had his membership withdrawn. This action has not been taken lightly and all the Guild Owners are upset at this outcome.
There had been an issue raised around a shortage of FP from the swap threads between Trink and another player. The matter was investigates and an acceptable explanation was provided. Restitution over and above the short amount was made and further administrative action was taken against the offender and the matter had we thought been dealt with to the satisfaction of all involved.
Sadly this has proved not to be the case and Trink refused to let the matter go. He has been actively seeking a new guild for some time as a result and coupled with his messages to Global, to the Guild Owners and also an offensive message to the other player a decision was made to remove him from membership.
He has been a valued member and we were truly impressed with his progress to the point were we could see him a leader in the guild but sadly this will not now occur here. We do wish him every success in going forward and hope he enjoys his membership in The Recruit Council.”

Deep Red
: If I understand the typo here, they = leadership and they are addressing the guild. I get why leadership must do this, but it sets up red flags for me. Power abuse comes very quick and fast in these situations.

Yellow: Superfluous information that, in my judgement, is meant to protect and project leadership as benevolent. It strikes me as subtle power moves and is why I judge it as similar to a political speech. It's telling the reader how to feel, since we should empathize with the 'hard' decisions the Guild Owners must do.

Light Red: Nuanced information delivery. Similar to yellow, but not superfluous because it delivers context information. Depending on delivery, it can give clues to the speech writers motivations. Membership withdrawn makes this all very official. Trink versus another player establishes the actors, which exposes Trink but not the 'other player'. Since I'm currently biased towards Trink, this feels unfair since it is outing Trink but protecting the other player(a known cheater). Leadership establishes they have 'taken action' but Trink is labeled as bad for refusing to let the matter go. The seeking a new guild feels like an easy potential fabrication to justify 'withdrawing membership'. The offensive message to the other player is critical, because it contextualizes the previous global and guild owner messages under a negative light as well. Thus further justifying the leadership's decision to remove him from membership. TL;DR Trink bad! *boot*

But then they further mitigate by switching 'Trink bad' into 'sing praises and if only he wasn't bad they would have been so good!'. All to cap it off with a "Trink went to that guild". The relationship of The Recruit Council with the primary guild will determine if that statement was a back-handed insult or just letting the guild know that Trink has moved(been moved?) onto a 'good, related guild that is cool with us but not us'. I suppose that last bit could be green highlighted as well.

Green Highlight: More Intel could lead to more or 'better' feedback. Depending on how the cage was rattled, could give opinions/advice on other methods when rattling the cage. The Cage = Unjust system or current problem that has multiple parties involved.
Feel free to ignore these questions, because I'm just some crank on the internet.
~What were the demands made for playing fair? (Global/Guild Owner messages? How many? Tone of said messages?)
~Were messages sent to global and/or why would leadership list that as a factor in their decision?
~Offensive message? *chuckles, thinking about the plunder progress thread* How offensive we talking about here?
~Most Importantly: Did you find the message the guild sent out as reasonable? If not, what parts were bull?
~How much wood a would chuck Chuck if a would Chuck could chuck Norris?

If membership withdrawn messages are a a common practice, then a lot of my caution/dissection is overzealous. I'm used to more laid-back leadership, especially in video games. If these messages are unique or rare, then I find that to be evidence supporting Trink and the other player hold sway over guild members opinions and leadership felt the need to PR damage control the situation. Or I'm watching/reading too much politco/spy media. Probably the latter latter.


Anywho: I really wish I had better control over turning off my analytical side of my brain, but sometimes I get started and feel the need to finish it. Blah.

Also, people who deliberately/maliciously cheat are garbage individuals I hold in low-regard.
 
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