Hello chiroref,
Some of your statements are misleading, others are simply incorrect, and others are not relevant to the discussion. Let me point out that my posts, and the data I presented, were addressing the erroneous statements made by cavalierhome and was in keeping with the theme of the debate, that of the American Dream. If you wish to discuss the recent recession, perhaps a new thread is in order.
Still, I will address what you presented as it pertains to this particular discussion. Btw, it always helps to present evidence to support your assertions
(mostly because by searching for the evidence, you are able to fact-check yourself, but also because it helps in arguing your points). As this discussion on the American dream morphed into a comparison of
"since 1948" and
"in the 70's/80's", it is prudent to present those timelines to demonstrate that, recession and recovery notwithstanding,
"no, it is not worse."
First we address the difficult one, food stamps. An important point to be presented here is that distribution of food stamps was part of the stimulus effort to reverse the recession, and continues to help in the recovery. Also, these numbers are based on population, not percentage of. Percentage-wise, it was not a record-high. This particular statistic is directly associated with the 2007-2010 recession/recovery stimulus efforts and not associated with the greater picture as argued by cavalierhome. Specifically, it is associated with a direct effort by the government to actively pose people on food stamps, precisely because of studies presented that indicated the use of such helps to stimulate the economy (click
here,
here, and
here). Unfortunately, opportunistic politicians have repeatedly misrepresented the reasons why there was an increase in the use of food stamps.
The next issue on your list is,
"labor participation rate at historical lows." This one is blatantly
false:
The next issue on your list is
"worst recovery in modern history." This is
not relevant to cavalierhome's argument from his original post
(or even his subsequent posts) and it is also grossly subjective. Another note is that this particular recession was not border-limited, just as the Great Depression was not border-limited. When you are dealing with recessions that are not border-limited, the impact is much deeper and the recovery rate is much slower. Still, we return to,
"not relavent to cavalier's argument," and so I move onto the next.
Next on your list,
"number of Americans renouncing citizenship at record high." The vast majority of people recently renouncing U.S. citizenship has to do with wealthy people avoiding taxation. Does that have to do with the American dream? No, it has to do with greed and a lack of respect for the nation and its people that provided them the opportunity to become wealthy. As cavalierhome put it,
"America, gave me the American dream. Much more than I ever deserved."
And to remove one more argument on this, the United States has taxed their citizens abroad
(regardless of what country they reside) since Federal income tax was first instituted, through the Revenue Act of 1861. Got a problem with that? Jump on Abraham Lincoln's case. ~
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=012/llsl012.db&recNum=323
So we're onto the next thing on your list, which is,
"percentage not paying federal income taxes at record highs." This is another
false claim. It is false because it is not at a record high. It is also
misleading because this refers only to income tax. The majority of those who did not pay federal income tax, instead payed federal payroll taxes. The remaining
17% that didn't pay either income tax or payroll taxes are comprised of 10% elderly and a mere 7% not having a job. ~
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/09/19/us/politics/who-doesnt-pay-federal-taxes.html
There's three here that i'll address together:
"$85 billion per month in fresh money printing just to net 1% growth," "QE4vah driving stock market to records highs, while saving class destroyed by devalued dollar," and
"$1 Trillion deficits past 5 years just to net 1% growth."
All three have nothing to do with this discussion, and particularly not cavalierhome's statements. That said, they're also incorrect and/or misleading statements. None of the actions were posed to impose a 1% net growth, but yes some of these actions were to encourage stock market activity. I must admit, your $1 trillion deficits comment doesn't make an iota of sense, so I'm not going to respond to that. As to the dollar, the devaluing occurred prior to such actions and, in fact, the value of the U.S. dollar has increased since the actions you state
(with a few bumps along the way). ~
http://useconomy.about.com/od/tradepolicy/p/Dollar_Value.htm
Your last one was,
"Country without a budget for over 4 years." is again not relevant to cavalierhome's original post or subsequent posts, and certainly has nothing to do with, "the American dream" argument for which this thread is based. This one in particular, along with many of your other statements, belong in a different thread pertaining to our latest recession and/or Congressional gridlock.
Your closing comments, one referring to Atlas Shrugged and the notion that corporations would cease production to starve the government to induce a collapse, and the other about running out of other people's money, are Reductio ad absurdum fallacious arguments. In other words your two closing sentences, with dependent inferences, are absurd and not applicable to the United States.