• We are looking for you!
    Always wanted to join our Supporting Team? We are looking for enthusiastic moderators!
    Take a look at our recruitement page for more information and how you can apply:
    Apply

Delete Observatory after getting Arc?

  • Thread starter DeletedUser31771
  • Start date

DeletedUser31308

It's not about hurting yourself, and it's not about numbers, it's about attitude. And the fact that you look at it from that perspective is proof positive of your non-guild attitude. Even if I somehow tolerated a player like you in one of my guilds (which I wouldn't), any kind of leadership or responsibility within the guild would be out of the question. To be a good leader, you have to put the group first much of the time. Unless you were in a guild where everyone had your attitude, but then I wouldn't consider that a guild at all.

I look at everything analytically, which you should always want in leadership. Sure, it's nice to have sheep in a group that put the guild before themselves, but true critical thinkers would be min-maxing and progressing so much more than those who care more about the guilds strength than their own (and, thus, aren't maximizing their city's potential). If you are on Y, ask anyone in my guild of their opinion of me. I think you'd find we would get along very well.
 

DeletedUser25166

I look at everything analytically, which you should always want in leadership. Sure, it's nice to have sheep in a group that put the guild before themselves, but true critical thinkers would be min-maxing and progressing so much more than those who care more about the guilds strength than their own (and, thus, aren't maximizing their city's potential). If you are on Y, ask anyone in my guild of their opinion of me. I think you'd find we would get along very well.
You my friend are an example of a me first player. Getting along and helping a Guild are 2 different things
 

DeletedUser31308

You my friend are an example of a me first player. Getting along and helping a Guild are 2 different things
They can be done simultaneously. If I apply to any guild and say "I finish 64/64 GE every week, aid every day, provide (currently) 700 goods/week to the treasury, am willing to offer advise to all players with questions, and will frequently point out FP profit opportunities when I see them and can't take them." Any guild I know of would respond with "Welcome aboard." No hangups related to "But how many HoFs are you willing to build?". There may be a few guilds holding a lot of land that would say "You can join if you put up an Obs", I admit. But it is easy to find a guild that won't say that. Logically, for me, I'll only build an Obs if I believe it is holding back my progress i.e. there's a guild I would greatly benefit from joining who won't take me otherwise. So far, it's only given me an extra 9 tiles for UBQs or my PoH-lvl 7.

I recognize that this does boil down to "me first". But that is not the same as being a "f**k everyone else" player. I am willing to help in most ways, the only line I draw is not wasting space in my city just to give a guild a little more xp or a little better GvG defense.
 

DeletedUser31771

Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen. I think I know what to do for the time being.
 

DeletedUser36261

They can be done simultaneously. If I apply to any guild and say "I finish 64/64 GE every week, aid every day, provide (currently) 700 goods/week to the treasury, am willing to offer advise to all players with questions, and will frequently point out FP profit opportunities when I see them and can't take them." Any guild I know of would respond with "Welcome aboard." No hangups related to "But how many HoFs are you willing to build?". There may be a few guilds holding a lot of land that would say "You can join if you put up an Obs", I admit. But it is easy to find a guild that won't say that. Logically, for me, I'll only build an Obs if I believe it is holding back my progress i.e. there's a guild I would greatly benefit from joining who won't take me otherwise. So far, it's only given me an extra 9 tiles for UBQs or my PoH-lvl 7.

I recognize that this does boil down to "me first". But that is not the same as being a "f**k everyone else" player. I am willing to help in most ways, the only line I draw is not wasting space in my city just to give a guild a little more xp or a little better GvG defense.

I read the entire thread and I can't, for the life of me, understand why you're getting so much flak for a perfectly reasonable approach to the game. I am thinking of starting my own guild, precisely to draw in players such as yourself, who look at things analytically and intelligently. If the choice is between a supposed "team" player with a level 10 Obs or a "me-first" player with a level 80 Arc, I personally think it would be madness to opt for the former, even when factoring in GvG. I use that scenario, because that's kind of what we have here (with your high level Arc) and I'm being generous assuming a level 10 obs. The road to hell was paved with good intentions. I'm actually in the middle of an argument with a guildie right now about this, who keeps trying to tell me and anyone else who will listen, how great it is to have an Obs for the guild, even claiming that it helps level up the Town Hall and give more FP's. No, it helps with support pool and guild goods. My guild doesn't even do GvG, so her argument makes no sense either. Besides, guild pool doesn't affect guild power, which is what is needed to level up the Town Hall and provide more daily FP's. If that's what players are worried about, then HoF's are more important to have. Obs is really only useful if your guild does GvG. But even then, I'd much, MUCH rather have a smart player with a powerful city, than a naive one with good intentions, but a flawed understanding of the game.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
I read the entire thread and I can't, for the life of me, understand why you're getting so much flak for a perfectly reasonable approach to the game. I am thinking of starting my own guild, precisely to draw in players such as yourself, who look at things analytically and intelligently. If the choice is between a supposed "team" player with a level 10 Obs or a "me-first" player with a level 80 Arc, I personally think it would be madness to opt for the former, even when factoring in GvG. I use that scenario, because that's kind of what we have here (with your high level Arc) and I'm being generous assuming a level 10 obs. The road to hell was paved with good intentions. I'm actually in the middle of an argument with a guildie right now about this, who keeps trying to tell me and anyone else who will listen, how great it is to have an Obs for the guild, even claiming that it helps level up the Town Hall and give more FP's. No, it helps with support pool and guild goods. My guild doesn't even do GvG, so her argument makes no sense either. Besides, guild pool doesn't affect guild power, which is what is needed to level up the Town Hall and provide more daily FP's. If that's what players are worried about, then HoF's are more important to have. Obs is really only useful if your guild does GvG. But even then, I'd much, MUCH rather have a smart player with a powerful city, than a naive one with good intentions, but a flawed understanding of the game.

I partly agree with you. If you do not play GvG you do not need Obs at all. Even when you dop play GvG, there comes a point where your support pool is at it's max, so again you do not need the Obs.

Don't agree with the HoF's part. If a player had the choice of building a HoF, or a Championsretreat, to fight 4 levels of GE, I would say built the retreat.

ThruTHEhead has the right approach on this. By becomming a stronger player you make the Guild stronger.
 

DeletedUser27889

When I get to level 80, and am producing 800 guild goods a day, there is no way any guild would turn me down for not having Obs.

A higher level GvG guild with 60 other level 80 Arcs have goods coming out their ears, it's the support pool they need. If you're in a non GvG guild then surely Arc is better from a goods stand point. If they don't fight in the era you're producing those goods aren't important to them at all, the support pool is always important no matter the era of the person holding the Obs.

I'm not jumping on the bandwaggon of people calling you selfish but I am saying your concept is mistaken a GvG guild in an established world with arcs will not care that you have one and will turn you down if you refuse Obs. Now, replace that high arc with a dozen or more HoFs and it's a different story.
 

DeletedUser31498

@ThruTHEhead is in a young world, there aren't tons of level 80 Arcs, so his goods are actually super valuable. And all the posts saying "I'd kick you out of my guild" are ridiculous. You want "team players" and are using the Obs as the only criteria. He said he fights GvG, does GE 64, helps others snipe, and I'm sure others level their GBs faster with him in the guild.

You all are focusing on one tiny aspect of helping a guild and really missing the big picture.
 

DeletedUser3882

I just hide mine in a corner sitting next to Zeus and pretend it’s a 5x3 with attack bonus :)

Obs is a royal pain to acquire prints. Once you have it, why would you ever want to go through that again if you were keen on rebuilding it?!?
 

DeletedUser31308

A higher level GvG guild with 60 other level 80 Arcs have goods coming out their ears, it's the support pool they need. If you're in a non GvG guild then surely Arc is better from a goods stand point. If they don't fight in the era you're producing those goods aren't important to them at all, the support pool is always important no matter the era of the person holding the Obs.

I'm not jumping on the bandwaggon of people calling you selfish but I am saying your concept is mistaken a GvG guild in an established world with arcs will not care that you have one and will turn you down if you refuse Obs. Now, replace that high arc with a dozen or more HoFs and it's a different story.
I appreciate that perspective. I've specifically avoided starting this late in an old world, so I am not familiar with the status quo in, say, A world. Your reasoning makes sense, so there may be a time where this world will demand an Obs from me.
 

DeletedUser11463

One other item left out is that the goods from an obs (or an ARC) are pretty near useless for any person at Arctic or above. I don't say totally useless because a small amount are used for GE, but every guild I've been a member of has had arctic and Oceanic goods coming out of the ears. So at that point, the only thing the Obs is giving is a few support pool points.

Keep it? Sure, why not. It is very small and you never know what INNO will do in the future. Clean out a bunch of other useless buildings first.
 

Volodya

Well-Known Member
@ThruTHEhead is in a young world, there aren't tons of level 80 Arcs, so his goods are actually super valuable. And all the posts saying "I'd kick you out of my guild" are ridiculous. You want "team players" and are using the Obs as the only criteria. He said he fights GvG, does GE 64, helps others snipe, and I'm sure others level their GBs faster with him in the guild.

You all are focusing on one tiny aspect of helping a guild and really missing the big picture.
The biggest part of the big picture is how his me first approach affects the overall culture of the guild. Imo, the best guilds are functioning communities... not simply assemblages of selfish individuals whose contributions to the strength of the guild are byproducts not goals. I personally would leave a guild where that attitude dominated, no matter how powerful and outwardly productive the individuals in question are.
 

DeletedUser27848

Except with 55 members having an Obs, you just turned that into 249 Goods extra a day. And 550% support pool.
If everyone in your Guild had such a me first negative attitude like you, then your pathetic Guild would be getting stomped on GvG and languishing on Page 5.

Amen
 

DeletedUser27848

I read the entire thread and I can't, for the life of me, understand why you're getting so much flak for a perfectly reasonable approach to the game. I am thinking of starting my own guild, precisely to draw in players such as yourself, who look at things analytically and intelligently. If the choice is between a supposed "team" player with a level 10 Obs or a "me-first" player with a level 80 Arc, I personally think it would be madness to opt for the former, even when factoring in GvG. I use that scenario, because that's kind of what we have here (with your high level Arc) and I'm being generous assuming a level 10 obs. The road to hell was paved with good intentions. I'm actually in the middle of an argument with a guildie right now about this, who keeps trying to tell me and anyone else who will listen, how great it is to have an Obs for the guild, even claiming that it helps level up the Town Hall and give more FP's. No, it helps with support pool and guild goods. My guild doesn't even do GvG, so her argument makes no sense either. Besides, guild pool doesn't affect guild power, which is what is needed to level up the Town Hall and provide more daily FP's. If that's what players are worried about, then HoF's are more important to have. Obs is really only useful if your guild does GvG. But even then, I'd much, MUCH rather have a smart player with a powerful city, than a naive one with good intentions, but a flawed understanding of the game.

You 2 clowns deserve each other, get the PMs going and start up a 'guild'...
 

DeletedUser31308

The biggest part of the big picture is how his me first approach affects the overall culture of the guild. Imo, the best guilds are functioning communities... not simply assemblages of selfish individuals whose contributions to the strength of the guild are byproducts not goals. I personally would leave a guild where that attitude dominated, no matter how powerful and outwardly productive the individuals in question are.
You are making assumptions about my contributions to a guild's culture, and your assumptions are completely wrong. You don't seem to think it's possible to focus on improving your city's output while simultaneously working as part of a cohesive team in Expeditions or the GvG maps. Well, it is possible. Every guild leader I've ever had has been grateful for the detailed advise I give to new players asking questions. They've been grateful for the beta/event/forum knowledge I gain on my own time and share with those who don't. Not a single one would say I was too selfish to fit into the guild culture, because I am not.
 

DeletedUser4441

Except with 55 members having an Obs, you just turned that into 249 Goods extra a day. And 550% support pool.
If everyone in your Guild had such a me first negative attitude like you, then your pathetic Guild would be getting stomped on GvG and languishing on Page 5.


This is incorrect. 55 Lvl 10 Obs = 5500 Support pool (10 points per level x 10 levels each)

That is enough support pool to put 75% on the HQ sector and ~45% on the 6 sector surrounding ring on the FE & AA Map (5500/ support factor 16= 343.75, HQ gets 75, the next 6 get 268.75/6= 44.79 (45) points of defense.

Step down to even lower age maps and that Support Pool goes even further with the smaller support factors.
 

DeletedUser26965

I read the entire thread and I can't, for the life of me, understand why you're getting so much flak for a perfectly reasonable approach to the game.
I guess when he said;
...I'm selfish, and make no effort to hide this...
...I build my city as selfishly as possible. Never a Hall of Fame or anything like that...
People take that as an unreasonable approach in terms of being in a guild, a mmo, where it's about working together. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong though with playing solo but at the same time if you're looking to do GE and or GvG, or whatever that makes and takes a team, to make more lively and better your guild, to be part of building up something bigger than oneself then that solo/selfish approach is nonsensical. There are times when the two can be compatible though but generally there would most likely be more negatives than positives especially given enough time the two will eventually collide.

What I've found through it all is that like pretty much any mmo you can pretty quickly tell who is more guild orientated and who is more self orientated. The guild minded folks will generally be more talkative and want to get involved in various things the affect the guild positively towards any short or long term goals. The self minded ones generally never really generate anything aside from the occasional gripe of why this or that requirement and when they really go off about it the boot they get. There can be exceptions but they're rare.

There's also this kind of false dichotomy present here. If a self minded player is doing well with their own city that can also be good for the guild. I'm thinking generally of someone like who manages well enough to complete GE64 every week and pays their way and such and maybe that's all they really ever do. That's okay and when looking at them compared to the player who doesn't do anything they're obviously better to have. Of course when compared to others who do more for the guild as a whole plus GE64 then they obviously fall short. So it isn't always a selfish player vs. guild player thing especially given the fact you can have 80 members in a guild which is more than enough room for all kinds of folks.

Of course in the end it's all relative to what the guild is. Obviously if it's a completely open, no rules or requirements, casual guild then it likely doesn't matter how selfish one is. But once you step into a guild trying to build something up you may want to shift that attitude to fit. Or just be a jerk and wait for them to kick you:p
 

DeletedUser35753

To add my own perspective here, I came from another game where I was in leadership for what amounts to a guild. So I entered the game understanding the value that structures like that can bring.

I built a HoF in Iron Age when space is quite tight. Sure an IA HoF isn't much, but it's something when you're still getting your head round GE as a new player. A couple weeks ago I placed my Obs, after a decently long sniping campaign across my hood(s) at my cost, for BPs. Even with that done, I still donate, particularly prior age goods, which are still easy to obtain, and still a cost i incur for GE. I check guild trades every day for anything I can reasonably fill, regardless of the benefit of the trade to myself.

I think that in this case the aim and culture of the guild the player is in may matter, but I really do understand the folks pointing out that OP's attitude would bother them in a fellow guildmember.
 

DeletedUser26965

I think that in this case the aim and culture of the guild the player is in may matter, but I really do understand the folks pointing out that OP's attitude would bother them in a fellow guildmember.
Well, to be fair to the OP it wasn't them who became the focus of discussion regarding selfish play vs. guild play, it was ThruTHEhead.

In my experience though I would argue it's better for newer lower age players to focus on building a solid city first. In your example you mentioned HoF in IA which while it indicates a guild oriented attitude and is nice to do I would actually encourage such a player to hold on to their HoF's till their city is big enough to afford the space. But that is also from a high level established guild perspective whereas perhaps a new guild filled mostly with newer players even a single HoF in IA is nice to have.

I suppose it's generally the same for the original discussion regarding OBS, a guild that's been around forever can often cover costs of GE without too much worry if someone doesn't have a single guild goods GB. Of course it would be good they cover their GE costs and an Arc alone will do that more than enough and if there's a good spread of various age players there's not too much worry about the costs of the lower age goods requirement per player. Of course if it's a GvG guild more goods the merrier but Arctic Future on up you can obviously go without an OBS and Atom as players will likely have the Arc anyway.

When I get to level 80, and am producing 800 guild goods a day, there is no way any guild would turn me down for not having Obs.
I would agree but if all you have to offer a guild is that alone I'd be more inclined to not have you over a lesser or no Arc player that is more guild oriented. Hell, you watch maps and catch a single siege and I'm more impressed than a high level Arc player:)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser36281

They can be done simultaneously. If I apply to any guild and say "I finish 64/64 GE every week, aid every day, provide (currently) 700 goods/week to the treasury, am willing to offer advise to all players with questions, and will frequently point out FP profit opportunities when I see them and can't take them." Any guild I know of would respond with "Welcome aboard." No hangups related to "But how many HoFs are you willing to build?". There may be a few guilds holding a lot of land that would say "You can join if you put up an Obs", I admit. But it is easy to find a guild that won't say that. Logically, for me, I'll only build an Obs if I believe it is holding back my progress i.e. there's a guild I would greatly benefit from joining who won't take me otherwise. So far, it's only given me an extra 9 tiles for UBQs or my PoH-lvl 7.

I recognize that this does boil down to "me first". But that is not the same as being a "f**k everyone else" player. I am willing to help in most ways, the only line I draw is not wasting space in my city just to give a guild a little more xp or a little better GvG defense.
first of all and last of all you are not a leader and you will never will be with that atitute... Good leader is someone who cares about the people that are below him (guild members) and will do anything to help them even hurt his/her own progress to make it so... all of the leaders know this and i don't think i need to elaborate on it.... check out the definition of leader in dictionary please before you call that yourself!
you are "me" player and lets be frank about it.... you wont build obs that helps the guild, you wont build hof, basically you won't build anything that helps the guild as a whole but you give advice... yeah a realy big deal!!! well hello, we all do it!!! but do you give your goods for a lesser player in your guild without fp compasations? I wouldnt think so because you are "me" player, but guess what, most of us do that, and it might hurt us in the short term but if you look at the long therm (as a real leader should) then you just gain a lot more then what you think you lost.... For players to fallow a leader that leader must be about the guild, and you are only about yourself... sorry, but you are not a leader!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top