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Changelog 1.136 Feedback

DeletedUser12063

I've thought it over and this change to the UBQs is just too radical for a strategy game and even if it is changed back immediately, I really don't see much sense playing this game. Why should I spend my time and money to do things and have the goal posts changed? How can you trust a company that will do this?

I'm shutting down my cities.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
They're missing the full experience of the game. I mean, if their whole point of playing is merely to accumulate as much stuff as possible without having to think about it, then I feel they're missing the point of a game. As someone else said, that style of play is boring to the max. I've tried it a couple of times and it is the most monotonous thing I have ever done. I play this game for enjoyment. Clicking a thousand times a day does not fit that description. Neither does the hyper leveling craze. Figuring out how to develop and grow with a variety of methods in the same city, now that's entertaining.
I suspect this is a left brain / right brain thing. While the process of collecting, the actual looping of the quests can sometimes seem mindless and boring, I can assure you there is a tremendous amount of thinking and planning that go into every change that happens within my city. Yes, I'm trying to accumulate as much stuff as possible. Why wouldn't I? I'm building an Empire.

However, to think it's without thinking, please.

Every change, every expansion to my city goes through one or more iterations in City Planner well before the change happens. I'm always looking for the most efficient, most aesthetically pleasing (to me) design. Each candidate is then scored in an Excel spreadsheet I built that recreates the math engine behind the game (thank-you fan wiki) exactly. Change the level of a GB like LoA, SMB or Chat from the drop-down list? All the numbers update, the new boost % applied throughout. Level Inno, add a production building? Pop is updated, excess pop is updated, pop mood is recalculated, boosts are added or subtracted, etc. The numbers match exactly what happens in game, right down to the happy per tile of road. At the end of the day, I want the answer to one question and one question only. Does this change make me more, or less FPs. If it makes more, that's what I do.

Sometimes, like in the case of a Terrace Farm, the Prosperous Mill, etc. the 'Yes' answer results in doing less RQs. Sometimes, like in the case of an expansion, or replacing 2 Alchs with a Windmill, the 'Yes' answer comes from completing more RQs.

My coin collections are even calculated out to collect in a specific order to be as close to the actual coins needed to maximize RQs.

Did you know in HMA, with a level 5 SMB, that collecting on the new Colorful Mill of Fall, then collecting Town Hall is exactly 25,000 coins and completes one 'Collect 25,000 coin' quest? I can complete another one with my lvl 4 Grand Bridge and 37 Aid button clicks, 25,080 coins. I complete one "Collect 25k coins' collecting from either 3 SoKs or 2 SSWs, 25,200 coins (I currently do 5 with Soks, 3 with SSWs). Did you know 2 SSWs and 3 SoKs add up to the exact same number? I didn't. Until I saw the math.

Now when I replace 2 Alchs with 2 SSWs, which take the same space, I can just replace a 'Produce 2 saltpeter' with a 'Collect 25k coins'. I no longer need to lose an RQ to gain 2 FPs. Being coin heavy by 152,000 per day, the loss of 6,624 supplies from the 2 Alchs does mean one less UBQ. That's now being offset by the fact that when I collect from a motivated Windmill, which also takes the space of 2 Alchs, run on a 24 hour production cycle, with a level 10 LoA and a 60% Tavern Boost, I not only complete one 'Collect 25k supplies' RQ, 25,090 supplies, I collect more supplies than 4 Alchs. I have 2 Windmills, but I'm going for the Supply Building chest in DC and hoping to win more Windmills from GE. Then I can replace more Alchs, and do even more UBQs.

Did you know that Windmills, despite being a premium production building are dead last on the motivation list? It takes a lot of activity in the friends area of the game to ensure that each 24 hours your city gets 70 motivations. That's one of the reasons I built Inno so early. 10+ Townhouses on an 8 hour cycle was killing me on motivations which impacted supplies. More supplies, more UBQs.

Point made? I hope so. The numbers get much less interesting from here.

As far as the actual collections and spinning the RQs themselves? Eh, so what? I gotta collect on my city, I'm gonna spend FPs, and I'm gonna research tech. I need goods, medals, BPs and FPs. If Inno wants to pay me all of those things just from doing the stuff I'm gonna do anyway, with the added benefit of no plunderable goods buildings and less pop? All I gotta do is hit some abort buttons annoying as that is? Hell yeah, I'm gonna do RQs, I will spam those RQs to death!
 
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RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
I've thought it over and this change to the UBQs is just too radical for a strategy game and even if it is changed back immediately, I really don't see much sense playing this game. Why should I spend my time and money to do things and have the goal posts changed? How can you trust a company that will do this?

I'm shutting down my cities.
Do you have a city on R or W? If so, will you dump any or all of your stored FPs onto my Arcs? I just built them and can use the boost. No point in your hard work completely going to waste. Once you dump enough friends, you'll be able to send me a friend request. Do some good for someone else, before you shut down and completely leave the game?
 
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DeletedUser36526

Standalone negotiations are a bad idea. Received one this morning, with four chances and nine options for each of the five slots of negotiation. Statistically this means there are 59,049 potentially different solutions and the chances of getting it right are ridiculously low. I could use up all my goods and still not achieve the goal (30 forge points). If this bad idea shows up in events I might have think about quitting the game. I play the game to relax not to get frustrated by bad ideas. If FOE was looking for a home run this is a strike out.
 

ODragon

Well-Known Member
Standalone negotiations are a bad idea. Received one this morning, with four chances and nine options for each of the five slots of negotiation. Statistically this means there are 59,049 potentially different solutions and the chances of getting it right are ridiculously low. I could use up all my goods and still not achieve the goal (30 forge points). If this bad idea shows up in events I might have think about quitting the game. I play the game to relax not to get frustrated by bad ideas. If FOE was looking for a home run this is a strike out.

Do you not do GE?
 

DeletedUser36521

How is it a money grab? Seriously? You now have to burn goods and use diamonds to finish a task. I doubt if Inno was getting swamped with requests for a way to waste goods and diamonds from their customers. I don't negotiate in GE...I made sure I was strong enough to finish it by fighting. I don't even attempt any quest negotiatiomn over simple. There is no doubt this was a money grab. I am sure Inno is patting themselves on the back for this but many a game has eventually gone down hill thru this tactic. It was the lack of greed that brought me here and kep me here.I understand the company needs diamond buyers to pay for the game but this is petty.
 

DeletedUser29623

What else are goods for? It’s not necessary to spend diamonds to do almost any of the GE negotiations. I can negotiate all the way through level 4 and spend 10 diamonds maybe once. If you get a bad board you can just try it again. As far as I’m concerned GE is a tool for turning goods into FPs and diamonds.

I’m peeved that I have only gotten one DC with a negotiation quest and that one also requires acquiring a sector of the map by fighting, which ain’t going to happen. I prefer not to waste my resources on military GBs, so I skip all battle quests I unless I can fill them by holding my nose and autobattling on level 1 of GE. As a result I have tons of goods to spend on negotiations. There are many different styles to playing the game, and adding the negotiation game to DCs is in line with that. You can always just skip he DCs calling for negotiations the way I skip the ones calling for fights.
 

- KQ -

Well-Known Member
They're missing the full experience of the game. I mean, if their whole point of playing is merely to accumulate as much stuff as possible without having to think about it, then I feel they're missing the point of a game. As someone else said, that style of play is boring to the max. I've tried it a couple of times and it is the most monotonous thing I have ever done. I play this game for enjoyment

That's the thing about this game, there are so many ways to enjoy it. Having stuff and the process of getting it is basically what this game is about. Ranking, wins, great buildings, special buildings; it's all stuff. We each choose different stuff and how we go about getting it. One person's idea of boredom is another person's idea of nirvana.

BTW, in my opinion, some people's stuff seems to be posting on the forums :confused:

I play this game for enjoyment. Clicking a thousand times a day does not fit that description. Neither does the hyper leveling craze. Figuring out how to develop and grow with a variety of methods in the same city, now that's entertaining.

I defy anyone to to play this game in any meaningful way without clicking thousands of times per day. How many thousands of times per day depends on the style of play you choose. And yes, I do get tired of all of the clicking, but I can't figure out how to do it any less and still enjoy the game.

If they enjoy their style of play and it involves clicking X times more than I do or hyper leveling buildings or playing in 26 worlds or GvG or "Insert Activity Here" , well, who am I to judge?

Anyway, thanks for your reply and clarification. We will probably have to agree to disagree on what we each consider to be a balanced and complete approach to the game. ;)
 

DeletedUser3882

I've thought it over and this change to the UBQs is just too radical for a strategy game and even if it is changed back immediately, I really don't see much sense playing this game. Why should I spend my time and money to do things and have the goal posts changed? How can you trust a company that will do this?

I'm shutting down my cities.
Jeez... You mean to tell me you’ve played through the Crystal Villa nerf, Rail Guns (and Hover Tank) nerf, the Oracle of Debacle, Terracotta level nerf, wholesale changes in GE and GvG, a whole lot more royal pain in the a$$ things Ive left out or overlooked...
And *THIS* is what you’re hanging up your hat over?!? o_O

I understand you’re on every single world and at an impressive level in each considering the time and effort needed in each, but this change adds, what? Overall Extra 5 minutes to running your quests in all 27 worlds?? Okay, okay, 10?!?
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
How is it a money grab? Seriously? You now have to burn goods and use diamonds to finish a task. I doubt if Inno was getting swamped with requests for a way to waste goods and diamonds from their customers. I don't negotiate in GE...I made sure I was strong enough to finish it by fighting. I don't even attempt any quest negotiation over simple. There is no doubt this was a money grab. I am sure Inno is patting themselves on the back for this but many a game has eventually gone down hill thru this tactic. It was the lack of greed that brought me here and keep me here.I understand the company needs diamond buyers to pay for the game but this is petty.
I'm sorry, how do you have to use diamonds? I've gotten two negotiations now, and have not had to use diamonds, even when I failed. Yes, you use goods, but if that's an issue for you, might I suggest you have some work to do in your city? If you're stretched to go through even the most difficult negotiation (10 goods, 8-10 units each native, 4 turns), fail 4 times and barely win on the 5th, you're goods production needs work. You state it yourself, you've built a city out of balance.

When Battles were introduced in DC I had trouble completing anything over a medium difficult army, double wave, 8 units, nothing over a 3% boost. Beyond that, I'd lose too many troops, too many Rogues and I thought, "Screw that, I'm not doing 'em." So when a difficult one came up, I didn't finish DC that day. The problem was not Battles however, the problem was I had built an unbalanced city. I had only built 2 of the 3 A/D GBs, Zues at lvl 7 and CdM at lvl 5. So I built CoA, rushed it to 5 (3 days), got the others to levels 8 and 9, and got better at fighting. Now I finish whatever battles get tossed at me, usually on the first try, with little to no troop loss.

Today, I got both a medium negotiation (5 goods, 5 units each native, 3 turns), finished in 2 turns, and an Extra Large Army Battle, (2 wave, 8 units each wave, 10% attack boost), finished first try. Thanks to Inno and Battles, (and a bit of being scolded here on the forum) I now have a more balanced city.

You built a city to accommodate a singular play style. Fight. It's not a money grab for Inno to show you, through Negotiations, you're city is out of balance. Fix you're city, get better at Negotiations. While you're at it, stop with the greed, greed, greed, all just a money grab, diamonds, diamonds, diamonds, crap. It's just silly. No one's making you spend diamonds, and if you had a balanced city you wouldn't ever need to.

You've built North Korea. You've invested everything in your military, while your people live without. Time to be more like China and build a strong economy.
 
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Zatrikon

Well-Known Member
The Negotiating game isn't a problem in and of itself. The problem is that the goods I have to give up for the negotiation are worth more than the prize offered. Even fifteen goods of the previous age are worth more than a Drummer School or a Cultural Building or a few random bloops of GBs I already have.

Oh well. I guess on the days that the DC asks for a negotiation, I won't be doing the DC at all. Unless the prize is really worth it, which it might be sometimes, but almost never is.

Even some of the mediocre-to-poor prizes are worth it for coins/supplies/changing productions/losing a few units in battle/etc. But Goods - especially the specific ones that your GBs don't make, are not worth giving up for the average Daily Challenge prize.

And even when a DC quest requires you to negotiate sectors or encounters in the GE, it's worth it because you also get the sectors and the prizes/guild points for the GE encounters.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
The Negotiating game isn't a problem in and of itself. The problem is that the goods I have to give up for the negotiation are worth more than the prize offered. Even fifteen goods of the previous age are worth more than a Drummer School or a Cultural Building or a few random bloops of GBs I already have.
If you're actually selling these goods for FPs, then yes, I agree. If you can sell them for 45, why give them away to win 30. I won't argue with a valid economic argument. If you're not actively selling them though, it's all theory and what else you doing with your goods?
And even when a DC quest requires you to negotiate sectors or encounters in the GE, it's worth it because you also get the sectors and the prizes/guild points for the GE encounters.
We know one of Inno's goals with both GE and DC was to increase player time in-game. Seems like this could be another reason to have some that are separate. I like that they're adding more types of tasks to DC, though. It means those annoying production run tasks come up less.
 

Zatrikon

Well-Known Member
If you're actually selling these goods for FPs, then yes, I agree. If you can sell them for 45, why give them away to win 30. I won't argue with a valid economic argument. If you're not actively selling them though, it's all theory and what else you doing with your goods?
I'm going to unlock tech with them. I might possibly build a GB with them. I will negotiate a sector with them once in a while - particularly when a Daily Challenge calls for it (so I'm not just getting the daily prize, but also the sector which I definitely will need to get anyway). I will also occasionally negotiate in the GE (when a Daily Challenge calls for it, otherwise, I fight almost exclusively - so again, I'm not just getting the daily prize, I'm also getting the GE prize, and the opportunity to get more GE prizes, and crowns for my guild).

I look at how much Arctic Future goods are going for, and I don't want to waste the few I have left just for a Coin Boost or a Color Guard or a Palm Tree or a Shrine of Inspiration or yet another Champion's Retreat or another piece of the Elephant Fountain set or a Whole Lot of Coins. The crappy prizes are worth less than the goods. And they're certainly worth a LOT less than the space it would take to rebuild previous-age Goods Buildings.
 

DeletedUser30312

Well, the negotiations are interesting. I got one on my main the first day that looked like a level 4 GE negotiation, but 4 turns were included so I went for it. No problem. My Wishing Well farm got a "simple" one today which had just three different choices, but instead of a standard GE negotiation with coins, supplies and one good of the previous age, it was three different goods, and required 2 of each good rather than the usual one. So I'm going to have to keep my goods supply up. Not really a big problem, since I keep a stock of goods from the current and previous ages on hand for GE negotiations and DC/event treasury donations in addition to research requirements, and I generate a good chunk of goods on a daily basis. And negotiations will probably appear more irregularly than they do in the GE kind of like how the stand alone battles are now.

I've thought it over and this change to the UBQs is just too radical for a strategy game and even if it is changed back immediately, I really don't see much sense playing this game. Why should I spend my time and money to do things and have the goal posts changed? How can you trust a company that will do this?

I'm shutting down my cities.
Do you have a city on R or W? If so, will you dump any or all of your stored FPs onto my Arcs? I just built them and can use the boost. No point in your hard work completely going to waste. Once you dump enough friends, you'll be able to send me a friend request. Do some good for someone else, before you shut down and completely leave the game?

If you need a place to dump your FPs on Jaims, my Arc is always available too. :)
 

DeletedUser29623

Most GE prizes are pretty lackluster — coins & supplies or BPs—until you get to L3 and L4, so you spend a lot more goods than ones in a given high-level encounter just to get there. All DCs are gambles. I have more goods than I know what to do with so I would like to get a negotiation in a DC Worth completing.
 

DeletedUser30900

Well, the negotiations are interesting. I got one on my main the first day that looked like a level 4 GE negotiation, but 4 turns were included so I went for it. No problem. My Wishing Well farm got a "simple" one today which had just three different choices, but instead of a standard GE negotiation with coins, supplies and one good of the previous age, it was three different goods, and required 2 of each good rather than the usual one. So I'm going to have to keep my goods supply up. Not really a big problem, since I keep a stock of goods from the current and previous ages on hand for GE negotiations and DC/event treasury donations in addition to research requirements, and I generate a good chunk of goods on a daily basis. And negotiations will probably appear more irregularly than they do in the GE kind of like how the stand alone battles are now.



If you need a place to dump your FPs on Jaims, my Arc is always available too. :)
can i have half of it if it's on W? PLEASE!!!! :p
 

DeletedUser25166

22 4 hour productions today.
Stop whining. Take away these stupid production ones
 

DeletedUser30312

That's not too bad, depending on how many supply buildings a city has. The way the DCs are set up, I find roughly 10-12 production buildings are usually sufficient to handle any production requirement.
 
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