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"Fair Trades" Explanation?

DeletedUser25273

What is "Fair" can be different that what you are willing to take. If you are desperate, you will often take something that you consider unfair because you really need to. The concept of "Fair" is a bit different that acceptable.

Maybe in the theoretical 'Ideal' market, exchanges would all be 'fair', but no market is really the 'Ideal'. One of the biggest factors is an Ideal market assumes informed and rational actors, and we know how unreal that assumption would be. If the interface indicated that a trade was outside the 'normal' bounds for such a trade, I suspect that there would be a lot less people trying to cheat others with 'unfair' trades.
 

DeletedUser24877

if i'm trying to trade up 2 ages, i think it would be reasonable to trade at 3:1, so why isn't that allowed?
 

DeletedUser8420

Not true in practice, people take trades they consider unfair all the time, even in real life. However whatever use they have for the trade is more important than getting a fair trade. Performing a trade is hardly agreeing it is fair.
If you take the trade it is fair enough for you to take it because, for whatever reason for taking is more important than any other consideration. If you REALLY believe the trade is unfair you will pass it up until you find one more to your liking. THEREBY, by taking the trade you are in fact stating it is a fair trade for you at that moment.


NO ONE IS FORCED TO TAKE A TRADE... taking a trade is up to the individual player. I have let guild members trades sit until they are expired if I felt they are not to my liking....I have taken trades most would consider ridiculous unfair because of a request of stated need...it all boils down --- according to reason and effect. NO ONE is forcing anyone to take a trade....so if you take one you are stating ---for that moment---that trade is fair enough for you click the button.
 
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DeletedUser9433

If you take the trade it is fair enough for you to take it because, for whatever reason for taking is more important than any other consideration. If you REALLY believe the trade is unfair you will pass it up until you find one more to your liking. THEREBY, by taking the trade you are in fact stating it is a fair trade for you at that moment.


NO ONE IS FORCED TO TAKE A TRADE... taking a trade is up to the individual player. I have let guild members trades sit until they are expired if I felt they are not to my liking....I have taken trades most would consider ridiculous unfair because of a request of stated need...it all boils down --- according to reason and effect. NO ONE is forcing anyone to take a trade....so if you take one you are stating ---for that moment---that trade is fair enough for you click the button.
You are attempting to redefine the word fair, just because I call a dog a cat doesn't make it a cat, even for a microsecond.
 

DeletedUser18114

We are ALL dealing with limited expansions in later ages so taking that into consideration is immaterial. I follow, and require other guild members to follow Dppro, which DOES take into consideration the cost of the additional "required" good needed to manufacture goods above Progressive. Progressive and below requires no additional cost by way of goods to manufacture. The "boost" costs NOTHING and shouldn't be taken into consideration when calculating the true cost of any goods. Other then extremely minor variances in the cost of the building itself and/or size/space required no one will argue that each level costs the same to manufacture and can be traded 1 for 1 (even up for those of you who struggle with conversions). However, to claim a certain right to rip other players off due to rarity of the good, or whatever purpose that justifies these type of trades it's apparent EVERYONE knows it's an unfair trade because it's very rare they post them in the favor of the other player. They're ripping them off and they know it.

Having said that, I keep my trades private for my guild and according to Dppro's calculator. I comb the market for the handful of people stupid enough to trade 2x1 in my favor. If they want to rip themselves off, they have the right to make a bad deal. For those of you who get a rare deposit, it's only once every couple ages. Eventually, you'll want my rare deposits and I'll not trade with a rip off.

For the rest of you.. join a guild that believes in fair trade according to Dppro and make sure you trade ONLY inside your guild. Let the others rip each other off.
 

DeletedUser18114

if i'm trying to trade up 2 ages, i think it would be reasonable to trade at 3:1, so why isn't that allowed?

Inno won't allow a 3 X 1 trade. Apparently the only one allowed to rip another player off that bad is Inno themselves with the 10 X 1 trades posted by the vendor, a/k/a Inno.

And I'll agree with the player above, "No one is forced to take a trade". In turn, no one is forced to attack their neighbors or plunder them. Those are aspects of this game that (at least for those of us who don't find enjoyment in the trashing of another persons enjoyment) many of us find vile and disgusting. For some reason Inno keeps it in. I just quit buying diamonds when I'm stuck in a hood with filth like that. I'd say when they figure it out, at minimum they're losing $50 + in revenue per month from me alone (more including my guildies) might be some day they may choose to listen to their players they'll change it. Until then I protest by halting all purchases of diamonds. Only a handful of bullies find plundering and bad trades to be enjoyable. They find it a rip off and hateful behavior. My answer, remember those who steal from you and remember NOT to mo/po them and/or trade with them in the market. Let them live off their ill begotten spoils. That really hurts them when apples or Easter eggs are being offered up. It used to hurt them more when Inno allowed them to be punished by letting US choose who we delivered those treasures too. Here again, now they've made it random. Why do they insist on protecting players who only sponge off the hard work of their neighbors? Popularity should make a difference. Remember that whole thing called karma? You reap what you sow, you want to rip them off the player should have the right to retaliation.

Join a fair trade guild that kicks those scum out and keep all your trades guild ONLY. Problem solved!
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
Inno won't allow a 3 X 1 trade. Apparently the only one allowed to rip another player off that bad is Inno themselves with the 10 X 1 trades posted by the vendor, a/k/a Inno.

And I'll agree with the player above, "No one is forced to take a trade". In turn, no one is forced to attack their neighbors or plunder them. Those are aspects of this game that (at least for those of us who don't find enjoyment in the trashing of another persons enjoyment) many of us find vile and disgusting. For some reason Inno keeps it in. I just quit buying diamonds when I'm stuck in a hood with filth like that. I'd say when they figure it out, at minimum they're losing $50 + in revenue per month from me alone (more including my guildies) might be some day they may choose to listen to their players they'll change it. Until then I protest by halting all purchases of diamonds. Only a handful of bullies find plundering and bad trades to be enjoyable. They find it a rip off and hateful behavior. My answer, remember those who steal from you and remember NOT to mo/po them and/or trade with them in the market. Let them live off their ill begotten spoils. That really hurts them when apples or Easter eggs are being offered up. It used to hurt them more when Inno allowed them to be punished by letting US choose who we delivered those treasures too. Here again, now they've made it random. Why do they insist on protecting players who only sponge off the hard work of their neighbors? Popularity should make a difference. Remember that whole thing called karma? You reap what you sow, you want to rip them off the player should have the right to retaliation.

Join a fair trade guild that kicks those scum out and keep all your trades guild ONLY. Problem solved!

I <3 this post. Massive amounts of poor thinkery mixed with awesome self centeredness and a good dose of verbal abuse.

What does plundering have to do with fair trade?

Looks pretty demeaning to real victims to trivialize bullying by using it to describe play within the rules and spirit of this war game as designed and encouraged by INNO.

It's obvious that INNO caters to those 'vile disgusting bullies.' What possible reason could a for profit business have to cater to such people? How much does it piss you off that INNO values money from 'vile disgusting bullies' more than your money?

d00d spams a couple hundred really horrible trades a week. Another d00d plunders the first d00d every day. Who's the more 'vile disgusting bully?'

Keeping trades guild only means you've cut your Friends off. How many potential buyers did you just cut off? Add in 75 hoodies, more potential buyers eliminated. Because some of them plunder you? Cut nose / spite face much?

Have you ever thought about how much joy you bring to the people plundering you? What kind of mean selfish person are you that you don't want those people to have fun?
 

DeletedUser2892

The coins for the unrefined goods are reflected in the prices.
If you review your 5th grade math, you'll then be able to understand the ratios.

The problem with "Official" Fair Trade ratios is that it is 2nd grade math. The math only works if there are unlimited expansions. Sorry, that is not the game we play. When a player reaches the CA there is 6 square Paper or 16 square Porcelain. So to make it easier to understand.

1st A player has a level 30 St.Mark’s and a level 30 Chateau. Coins are then not a consideration.
2nd The player can build 16 Paper producing buildings or 6 Porcelain buildings.
3rd The same player collects 25 goods a day from his goods buildings.

So, 400 Paper can be produced in a day or 150 Porcelain.

How can they be traded at a 1:1 ratio and be a “Fair Trade”
 

DeletedUser13838

1st A player has a level 30 St.Mark’s and a level 30 Chateau. Coins are then not a consideration.
2nd The player can build 16 Paper producing buildings or 6 Porcelain buildings.
3rd The same player collects 25 goods a day from his goods buildings.

So, 400 Paper can be produced in a day or 150 Porcelain.

You're assuming that the players have boosts in those 2 goods. If players aren't boosted in paper but are boosted in porcelain they will choose to produce porcelain.

You're also assuming that supply is all that matters. Even if you have those 2 boosts the game mechanics (at least seem to) imply the same demand for each good so while you might make a lot more paper, the demand for porcelain = the demand for paper (presumably). Assuming boosts are evenly distributed so that 40% of the players have the boost for paper and everyone who has a boost in paper produces paper over everything else, what is your fair value of paper?
 

DeletedUser18114

You're assuming that the players have boosts in those 2 goods. If players aren't boosted in paper but are boosted in porcelain they will choose to produce porcelain.

You're also assuming that supply is all that matters. Even if you have those 2 boosts the game mechanics (at least seem to) imply the same demand for each good so while you might make a lot more paper, the demand for porcelain = the demand for paper (presumably). Assuming boosts are evenly distributed so that 40% of the players have the boost for paper and everyone who has a boost in paper produces paper over everything else, what is your fair value of paper?

No one will dispute that supply and demand is (and should be) a major contributor in determining the value of a persons product. If you own the boost for paper and you choose not offer it on the open market and if all the other producers of paper manufacture that item and trade it guild only, it would then becomes a rare good. That would ultimately end up with our hoarders stockpiling their goods and waiting for a chance to dump them on a hungrier market because eventually they too will need the goods that they cannot produce. Even our porcelain manufacturers. At that point they'd be thrilled to trade their porcelain even up for paper. I'm not concerned with the space the buildings take up because that's just way too many variations to try to police within a fair trade guild. My point was, is and always will be what the majority of people consider to be fair play and a measurable cost to manufacture those goods. We all know what's fair, even those who are refusing to follow those guidelines. How do we know it? You never see them trade up or even. Their trades are ALWAYS posted to ensure that it give them an advantage. If it's not a rip off, why don't they post the 2x1 trades where they're not coming out ahead?

My only wish would be that Inno would create a sort button that would allow us to only show "fair" trades. Either same age goods or actual cost. I don't think those who trade fairly should be subject to those who don't return the favor.
 

Zatrikon

Well-Known Member
Here are the actual relative costs of goods of all the ages:

Bronze Age . . . . . . . 1
Iron Age . . . . . . . . . 2
Early Middle Ages. . . 4
High Middle Ages. . . 8
Late Middle Ages . . 16
Colonial Age. . . . . . 24
Industrial Age. . . . . 32
Progressive Era . . . . 40
Modern Era. . . . . . . 48 . . . =CA+24
Postmodern Era. . . . 60 . . . =IA+28
Contemporary Era . . 72 . . . =PE+32
Tomorrow. . . . . . . . 84 . . . =ME+36
The Future . . . . . . 100 . . . =PME+40
Arctic Future. . . . . 117 . . . =CE+45

So 100 Stone is worth 1 Nanoparticles. 100 Plastics is worth 72 Algae. etc.
 

DeletedUser2892

You are right. What do I know. I started a guild 4 years ago that trades 1 for 1 between ages and our Market Board stays empty. My guildmates can put up any Era GB once they have the BPs. Oh yes, and I have 660,000 Goods.


But then it is the Dark Matter Galaxy guild and our math is little different even though we are in the same universe.
 

DeletedUser8152

You are right. What do I know. I started a guild 4 years ago that trades 1 for 1 between ages and our Market Board stays empty. My guildmates can put up any Era GB once they have the BPs. Oh yes, and I have 660,000 Goods.


But then it is the Dark Matter Galaxy guild and our math is little different even though we are in the same universe.
I can say too that this is a good way to do things within a guild, IMX.
 

DeletedUser18114

You are right. What do I know. I started a guild 4 years ago that trades 1 for 1 between ages and our Market Board stays empty. My guildmates can put up any Era GB once they have the BPs. Oh yes, and I have 660,000 Goods.


But then it is the Dark Matter Galaxy guild and our math is little different even though we are in the same universe.
I might be having a blonde moment here, but are you saying 1 for 1 is the trade expectations in your guild? i/e I could join and offer 100 Iron and ask for 100 Nanos and they'd pick it up?
 

DeletedUser2892

We generally trade 1 for 1 for adjacent Ages. But if a guildmate is in the Iron Age and wants a Arctic GB then yes, 100 Iron and ask for 100 Nanos would be picked up.

Our guild is not a group of players trying to take advantage of each other. We are a guild that does not want the need for a good to hamper progress.
 

DeletedUser28129

I came here to get a better understanding of "fair trade" as I progress into the higher ages. Now I'm more confused than ever. I've instead decided to trade just like I do at the grocery store and look for deals and do my best to make my trades attractive but not to my detriment.
 

DeletedUser26965

I came here to get a better understanding of "fair trade" as I progress into the higher ages. Now I'm more confused than ever. I've instead decided to trade just like I do at the grocery store and look for deals and do my best to make my trades attractive but not to my detriment.

Whoever came up with the term "fair trade" should be exiled from the entire universe. What people really probably meant at the start of this game was "abuse of trade" in a sense. The thing is in this game you can ask for 100 of the highest age good for 50 of the lowest age good and anything in between. I think you should be able to set your own values but I suppose the 1:2 thing came to prevent abuse.

Regardless people see trades like that and say "OMG you crazy, why you think you can get that!?!:confused:" not realizing it's a fp/goods trade or pity trade, or sometimes hasty guildmates trying to help their guild mates out with typical trades accidentally picking up these sorts of trades and say "OMG whachyou trying to do scam us!?!?:mad:" So then some goof came up with the "Fair Trade Calculator" and based trades using supplies and coins costs as the trade value, then "fair trade" eventually became something to the effect of "what is a fair trade?" and people trying to find actual fairness with all trades which is impossible.

At the end of the day a fair trade is what you and the person you are trading with find acceptable.
 
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