How do You handle Unwanted Donations?

[DeletedUser31882]

I think you miss the point. often times people do put FPs on with no expectation of you paying them back. no "obligated return of favor," as in my example where a former guildie put 200 FPS on my Capitol without messaging. She just wanted BPs, and I noticed after she half-filled it so I used swap threads for the rest.

I certainly didn't have to, but I felt bad and appreciated she was trying to help. After the next level I messaged saying I couldn't handle more pop, but thanks so much for the FPs, and I'd be happy to sell her the goods when she acquires her BPs. But she never even asked to use her FPs and payment for goods. I think your malicious characterization is pretty hugely off the mark.

Your example is exempt from what I was describing. My example specifies, rather I had meant it to, the intent of the person donating and demanding. The only way we can learn intent is if they communicate, so the only people that would fall into the malicious characterization would be the examples mentioned by others; Such as the ones who donate 100FP and then demand a return gift. My intent was to differentiate between agreed upon swaps or people who donate without false intent versus people who use the 'feelsbadman' to their advantage, consciously or not.

My mini-rant stems from a philosophical dilemma first posited to me by my sister demanding I put her dish in the dishwasher after she put mine in without my knowledge. There is a huge difference, to me, between "Hey, I scratched your back, can you scratch mine?" & "I DID YOU A FAVOR! NOW DO WHAT I SAY". That's the straw people I imagined in my characterization. I feel my sister fell into the 'misguided nice person expectations' category. She was frustrated that I would not immediately return the favor, which leans more on the selfishness side of the spectrum, but isn't malicious. Previous thread examples appear to be the more malicious and potentially manipulative kind. That being said...

Your example is wholesome and I had no intent to besmirch or question anybodies character in it.

 

[qaccy]

I think you miss the point. often times people do put FPs on with no expectation of you paying them back. no "obligated return of favor," as in my example where a former guildie put 200 FPS on my Capitol without messaging. She just wanted BPs, and I noticed after she half-filled it so I used swap threads for the rest.

I certainly didn't have to, but I felt bad and appreciated she was trying to help. After the next level I messaged saying I couldn't handle more pop, but thanks so much for the FPs, and I'd be happy to sell her the goods when she acquires her BPs. But she never even asked to use her FPs and payment for goods. I think your malicious characterization is pretty hugely off the mark.

You're right that you didn't have to. She probably would have finished levelling it on her own, and probably wouldn't have felt like she was cheated or anything like that at all. She donated of her own free will, without being asked or even having it mentioned to her. And if she wanted to do it in the first place, what is there to feel bad about?

 

[DeletedUser31498]

You're right that you didn't have to. She probably would have finished levelling it on her own, and probably wouldn't have felt like she was cheated or anything like that at all. She donated of her own free will, without being asked or even having it mentioned to her. And if she wanted to do it in the first place, what is there to feel bad about?

Yeah it takes 410, she had on 205, so guessing she was done? But you're right, I shouldn't have felt bad, yet I do. Idk kinda conflicted.

 

[qaccy]

@gutmeister That's a fair assumption, actually. If she was aware that she only has to put on half of a level to ensure 1st place and wasn't intending on contributing anymore, I can see why you'd then feel obligated to complete the level in order to have those FP returned to her. I was operating under my own assumption that she was putting her normal FP collections on that GB with the single-minded goal of eventually levelling it herself, even if nobody else came along for the other spots.

 

[DeletedUser26532]

I look at it and think "Hey free forge points. Cool!"

And then promptly forget about it until I go to level that GB (sometimes months later) or its about to level and I post to our guild for anyone who wants to fill out the remaining spots and then level it. Sweet free level.

I feel no obligation to level it for someone unless we have an ongoing trade agreement. WHy on earth would you?

 

[DeletedUser31440]

This is all that it takes, imho, for someone to do before just putting fp's on someone's GB if they're hunting bp's.

 

[DeletedUser31540]

This is all that it takes, imho, for someone to do before just putting fp's on someone's GB if they're hunting bp's.

View attachment 9257

yes that is the sensible thing to do

part of my problem lies in that ive been camping out in HMa for a long time and my hood is filled with noobs with daft notions on how do forge well

i am reluctant to play the role of educator each time someone starts adding to my GBs

Nothing wrong with the middle road, the fault is in the emotions and unresolved frustration. Figure out what brings you to homeostasis and execute the plan.

Let me twist your words a bit: What is a gentleman to do when they benefit from a greedy sniper? Should you be upset by their leveling of your GB because of their malicious/greedy intent? Donate to charity to absolve yourself of the 'dirty blood' FPs donated by the neighborhood plunderer. Guilt absolved.

Wouldn't the super nice always donate to the poorest GB in the neighborhood and ignore their own? Wouldn't the Max greedy person work on developing ways to 'trick' people into donating to their GBs? Are you greedy for having wants? Can you only be 'nice' when you are purely altruistic?

For me, I feel the best course is to ignore donations to my GBs unless someone contacts me directly with a message. Other than swap threads, the only messages involving FPs have been one hoodie bragging about 'robbing' me of a double-dip. I lost ~12.33 goods (based on 'timer lost' at level up) due to their flip. They bragged about donating 6 FP for the flip. The pillages that precipitated their retaliation amounted to 4-6FP from their bazaar. In pure business terms, They gave me 6FP to rob me of less than 13 goods(EMA). If I was a bleeding heart gentleman, I could have donated 6FP to one of their GBs to be super nice. Instead, I ignored them.

I think it is obvious I am the more greedy person in this scenario (plunderer and chief benefactor of the exchange of goods), but who was more malicious? If we want to be purely nice, we can argue the need to reward that maliciousness actor with kindness. Sometimes, the middle path requires ignoring other people. Not out of maliciousness or greed, but because not everybody is worth your time.

I don't subscribe to the 'obligate return of good deeds' mentality. Just because someone did something nice for you, doesn't require you to return the favor. A 'obligated return of a favor' is not a really a good deed, it's a plot point in the Godfather. It's an exchange. As others have described, if someone does a good deed and then expects a return, they are not a nice person. They are using the 'obligate return of good deeds' to manipulate others for their benefit. That's malicious greed, regardless of if they are cognizant of what they demand. At best, they are a misguided/ignorant nice person, at worst, they know exactly what they are doing and do not have your interests in mind.

I think the easiest solution is to communicate intent, as others have suggested. You request that they put FP on your desired GB and then they decide if that fits into their objectives or not. You put in extra work to be nice and it is up to the contributors to fulfill your 'greedy' desires. You can then feel good about achieving both of your seemingly conflicting objectives.

i dont have much to say other than wow !!! This was a great read

you sir are an outstanding forumer and deserve a medal! or maybe 500,000 medals

 

[DeletedUser6892]

I don't see the problem. If they aren't outbidding any of your swap partners and have not contacted you asking for anything I see no problem. If you feel pressured to level that GB it's only pressure you put on yourself. I have done that to myself too. In the end I put the GB up in swaps and levelled it. I lost 2 or 3 days of working on the GB I was pushing to have another GB in my city level. I didn't agonize over it. I was actually pretty happy to have gotten the free help on levelling a GB that eventually I would've worked on levelling anyway and my guildmates got some cheap slots too.

 

[DeletedUser32444]

after reading these comments I see a need to go tell the people I have been giving fps to ..do you want them or where do you want them ! 1 of them I been giving a point a day for 60 days without them knowing ...I wanted the Observatory ..an got it by donating to every Obs ,12 , I could find ! another I donate to has not been back since the day I joined the guild ( over 100 days ago ) leveled the Obs.( level 4 ) an donated another 35 fps to it ,no one else in the guild has joined in because the guild member hasn't been back ...is it wrong to keep going ? upto a couple days ago I only got 10 fps back in swaps the rest ...donated ... the price of being a newbe !

 

[Woody*]

I think that most people would rather learn techniques to get MORE unsolicited donations. I try to cultivate them, thank them, but that's another topic...

If it happens now, and I want them to stop, I ask nicely. It works the vast majority of the time. You can also tell them early that they will need to add X fps if they realistically want to win a spot. I try to do that both to encourage them to lock the rewards if they really want it, and to help make sure they don't have a crushing snipe over them that leaves them anti-Claire for the rest of their playing days. The number of really active players is smaller than you might expect and I take the long view on trying to keep good relations (most of the time, anyways).

If they don't stop and you really want those prizes to go to guildies then you can disconnect the GB until your guildies are able to donate. Another thing that works in a guild with very active FP trains, is to start posting your GB in the trains. You just need the packs to post them fast enough in the trains for your guildies to overtake the outside donor.

But don't be surprised if that donor doesn't free-donate to your GBs after that.

 

[DeletedUser32444]

I contacted the ones that I was donating to an like you said they didn't mind the free Fps . A couple contributed back . Some said they couldn't contribute because of commitments and it was my choice to continue ...a couple leveled up an I stopped. I got between 50 an 65 points invested in each of the 4-5 ... so yeah I'm continuing .some I'm the only one contributing I have 6 firsts ,3 seconds , an 1 third , nothing lower ...yet ! Highest level 19 , lowest 1. all Obs. but 3 ! yes I am a daily player...so add me or send a message an I'll see if I can add you

 

[DeletedUser16522]

It used to be the only way a hoodie could donate to anyone's GB was if through a one time guild member and placed some FP on someone's GB in that guild. And if they are friends they can donate anyway. All this changed when FOE opened all GBs in a hood to all the people of said hood. I've noticed on my GBs or a GB a group of us were donating to would get to where say a 100 or 150 FP were required to level and all of us had donated say 80 FP each, a player from hood would donate enough to get 1st slot reward and there were not enough FP left for any of us to get 1st slot back. When checking out the donor, they were advanced players with GBs in very high levels and their cities were set to produce FPs in the 100s/day. So they pick on any low level GB in their hood and grab 1st slot. Believe they do this for changing FPs into FP packs, plus not that many FPs for the prints they get. Remember, a GB past level 10 requires a full set of prints for every level after that. So they spend 100 or so FPs for prints instead of 400 or so on a high level GB for prints. Think FOE listened to top ranking guilds or players on this change! It only benefits them! You cant count in the GB leveling, that only effects owner and they don't get rewards. By the same token, a player might keep donating to the same GB and end up leveling it, owner need not feel guilty about it, I have done that when I have reached a point where I could not put any FPs on techtree and was at the end of it and didn't want to jump up. I was a free lancer, not in a guild, so I picked a friend's GB and piled the FPs on it to get rewards instead of mine and get no rewards!

 

[DeletedUser31440]

I've noticed on my GBs or a GB a group of us were donating to would get to where say a 100 or 150 FP were required to level and all of us had donated say 80 FP each, a player from hood would donate enough to get 1st slot reward and there were not enough FP left for any of us to get 1st slot back.

I'm hoping you all have changed your strategy of donating to help combat this, it sounds like you all are donating the same amounts to the same GB but not enough to lock in the 1st spot leaving it wide open to snipers. It also would make it so that you have multiple people with say 80 fp donations getting reward slots 2-5, screwing over everyone but the first donor.

Think FOE listened to top ranking guilds or players on this change! It only benefits them!

What prevents you from doing the same thing?

I picked a friend's GB and piled the FPs on it to get rewards instead of mine and get no rewards!

Again I would hope that you would learn and change your strategy. Look for opportunities to turn your fp bar fp's into inventory pack fp's by getting reward spots on other people's GB's. When you have enough to lock a spot then make the move and don't leave it up to chance whether or not you get the reward.

 

[DeletedUser34517]

I recently had the following exchange with a "friendly" hoodie.



I'm trying to be a polite hoodie, so I haven't told this neighbor to kick-off! Therefore, I would like to know (a) what are the game rules regarding leveling up someone's GB (I thought it was open to everyone who can get there) and (b) what is the "popular" or accepted protocol? Thank You

 

[Czari]

If it's a neighbor, why do you feel you have to help them out? Even if it's a friend, unless it's someone you've actually got some kind of previous relationship with, why would you feel that way? It's not like you asked them to do it. You are under no ethical obligation to help them.

Yes. Unless, like I said, it's a friend that you have a standing relationship with. For example, someone you've had a swap with, been in a guild with, something like that.

I don't even know why you would bother to message them about it if it's a neighbor or just some random person on your friends list. Nobody asked them to start. They could not reasonably expect you to change your plans to help them.

It's not being an ass. In fact, if they started donating and then messaged you asking why you weren't helping them, they would be the ass. (Not saying that anyone did, just as an example.)

What he said. ^^

Some people try to find self-levelers and gain awards that way; I personally don't have that much patience. I've also noticed that there are people who place 1 FP on many GBs; the same name/s show up on my GBs, my guildmates' GBs, sometimes my friends and neighborhood GBs. I dub this the "shotgun method." I wonder how many times the 1 FP on a kazillion GBs actually pays off.

 

[DeletedUser31882]

I recently had the following exchange with a "friendly" hoodie.

I'm trying to be a polite hoodie, so I haven't told this neighbor to kick-off! Therefore, I would like to know (a) what are the game rules regarding leveling up someone's GB (I thought it was open to everyone who can get there) and (b) what is the "popular" or accepted protocol? Thank You

a) Technically, there are no 'game' rules, just etiquette. Every now and then, some people debate on if a GB owner should have control over the level up portion, but that's about it. You wouldn't ever get in trouble with the game devs for leveling up a GB.

b) Popular protocol/etiquette is exactly as the 'friendly' hoodie suggested. Don't level a GB that has a collection reward so the owner can maximize their gains from it. Temple of Relics and Statue of Zues are exceptions, because they are GBs without a collection. This protocol could be enforced in guilds, so make sure to be aware of how your guild leadership handles it.

So, if you want to follow that protocol, make sure to calculate your sniping for contribution rewards around leaving the final FP up to the owner to place. Or, since the game allows for it, you can purposely flip others GBs in your hood to maximize your salt collection.

 

[DeletedUser29623]

I made this mistake when I started, and the GB owner chewed me out in the harshest terms. He cooled down a bit after I apologized and explained that I wasn't aware of this custom. Then we became friends, and since he and his buddy mostly just level each other's GBs via swaps, I have landed a few 2nd-position rewards from them. New players don't know not to roll your GB! And even players who do know it can accidentally tap the wrong button. Both should apologize, but you can't really rage at a new player for it. Just be nice and explain that it's considered Very Much Not Done.

Hoodies are perfectly entitled to donate to your GBs, although I keep encountering guildies who seem to think this is nefarious or exploitative. I can't agree: it's the only way I was ever able to get the bps to build GBs above my current age, and I gave far more fps to other players than I got in return.

 

[DeletedUser]

I wonder how many times the 1 FP on a kazillion GBs actually pays off.

I don't know the answer to this, but I do know that players who do this end up coming to the Forum to complain/make a proposal about all the "dead" GBs on their contribution list.

 

[Czari]

I recently had the following exchange with a "friendly" hoodie.

View attachment 9395

I'm trying to be a polite hoodie, so I haven't told this neighbor to kick-off! Therefore, I would like to know (a) what are the game rules regarding leveling up someone's GB (I thought it was open to everyone who can get there) and (b) what is the "popular" or accepted protocol? Thank You

As another poster said, this isn't an Inno "rule" but it's become a generally-accepted courtesy to not level others' GBs. The reason is that when the GB owner adds the final FP/s to his own GB, he gets to "double-dip" ie. whatever the GB produces the owner can first collect, then add the remaining FPs to level, and collect a second time. Another person leveling the GB deprives the owner of this courtesy. In the lower level of GBs the "double dip" is minimal, but with a high-level GB the owner loses out on a lot of FPs, goods, medals, whatever.

When I first began playing FoE, many players' profiles had some variation of "Please allow me to place the last FP on my GBs." The variations ran the gamut of the explanation I provided above to "Level my GBs and die!" Now with so many mobile users who can't see the profiles I don't see this as much. Usually the way a new player learns about this "info" is by what happened to you.

 

[Czari]

I don't know the answer to this, but I do know that players who do this end up coming to the Forum to complain/make a proposal about all the "dead" GBs on their contribution list.

LOL!