New members suddenly don't understand swap threads?

[DeletedUser27889]

I play on two worlds, N and W. I also play on beta. On W I created my own small guild with the main goal of teaching new players the game, I created this guild prior to being given leadership of my much more established, larger guild on my main world N.

Recently on Walstrand we have come into the issue of new players not understanding swap threads. There have been about 6 incidents of people posting links to their GBs in swaps and not fulfilling the swaps claiming to not understand. Some of those people were removed, others who agreed to never do it again and pay back what they were owed have been allowed to stay.

More recently we have begun not adding any new member into a swap thread without first messaging them about how swap threads work and waiting for them to respond they understand. It's now happened again even after the messages.

This problem seems exclusive to W. It has happened with several members and only began happening once the link GB feature was activated.

On N I am adding in new members all the time. Once or twice in the last two or so years a person hasn't understood the swap threads and posted to ask about them, no one my guild on N has ever not fulfilled a swap and feigned ignorance. On W it has happened with about 6 people over the last 6 months.

Has anyone else been experiencing this since the link feature? Is there any explanation as to why this has only seemed to come up on W multiple times but never on beta or N?

Can anyone think of any other way to combat this? We now send messages out before adding people in like I said but yet again it happened today with a new member about two weeks in who messaged back that he agreed and understood our rules before being given access. Other than letting the already small guild die out by not adding in new members I'm at a complete loss as to what the sudden confusing on swapping is all the sudden and sick at monitoring swap threads.

 

[DeletedUser31771]

My experience is anecdotal, but, yes, just this week we had a few instances of new members claiming to not know. Sometimes I swear that some of these players are guild hoppers scamming free FPs

 

[DeletedUser27889]

My experience is anecdotal, but, yes, just this week we had a few instances of new members claiming to not know. Sometimes I swear that some of these players are guild hoppers scamming free FPs

I'm not sure of that though as most of these players are very new to the game. It seems like any player coming in now since the GB link feature just has no idea how to figure out swap threads and post these links out where ever and whenever they want without bothering to learn.

Of course there is always the chance of scammers but it seems to me like more of actual ignorance and unwilling to learn the game with no thought of the consequence to posting in places they don't understand. I just can't understand the big shift from when people would post abbreviations to people providing the link. Did that somehow make it more confusing for new people? And if they are confused, why do none of them bother asking about it before posting?

 

[Graviton]

Of course there is always the chance of scammers but it seems to me like more of actual ignorance and unwilling to learn the game with no thought of the consequence to posting in places they don't understand.

Hanlon's Razor: Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I just can't understand the big shift from when people would post abbreviations to people providing the link. Did that somehow make it more confusing for new people? And if they are confused, why do none of them bother asking about it before posting?

I don't know either. I know that double-dipping was a big deal when I first started playing; every Guild I joined stressed its importance. Now three years later it seems like nobody cares about it anymore.

 

[DeletedUser29623]

I have cities in S and A and both have had issues with doubts about swap thread donations recently. I was directly involve in communicating with the parties involve, but in one case the player said he’d had connection issues causing him to think he’d donated when he hadn’t. Hmmm. But he did make up the difference and then some, so he remains in good standing. In the other the player left the guild and his city has been stripped of every structure but GBs and some special buildings like victory towers. He was a fairly new player and might have quit do to plundering.

 

[DeletedUser]

He was a fairly new player and might have quit do to plundering.

Or...he couldn't find a gullible guild that would let him get away with cheating its members, so he decided to go find another world (or another game) where he could find people he could take advantage of.

 

[DeletedUser29623]

Or...he couldn't find a gullible guild that would let him get away with cheating its members, so he decided to go find another world (or another game) where he could find people he could take advantage of.

Maybe, but it’s not at all clear that he did try to cheat the swap thread. The player who suspected this was unable to tell and ultimately decided probably not. We do know, however, that he felt overwhelmed by plunderers. I only mention this because there are two possible reasons for him to have left the game, if that is indeed what he’s done.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

Legitimately new players often don't understand them yes - it has always been thus. You just get more legitimately new players on newer worlds - (whatever world is currently 'recommended' to them. As you add new people to swap threads watch their activity on them and catch it early - of 3 who didn't get it i've had to remove 1.

Part of it also is that people get spammed by their friends list now with GB-begging threads, and they may not make a distinction that the swap thread is not just another begging thread.

 

[Czari]

Thank you so much, Manda, for posting this. I'm a leader in my guild on C world and beginning about 4ish months ago we began having a rash of issues with the swap threads by players new to FoE. I even remarked to other leaders that it was odd that for 2 1/2 years (the amount of time I've been in the guild prior to this issue) we never had any problems and new guild members always asked how to use the threads. Some of the strange issues we've had recently:

*Someone who posted his GB then only paid a portion of that amount of FPs. I noticed it with one of my GBs and contacted the member who said he didn't always have enough FPs at the time but he would add them when he got the FPs. I told him the FPs were mandatory when he posted his GB. Not enough FPs - don't post the GB. After being called out publicly for the same issue by two other guild members, he sent nasty messages to them and left. Since one of the shortages was on the 50 FP thread, we decided to not open any of the swap threads for new players without GBs...then this happened:

*A new player who seemed very enthusiastic kept asking if she'd been added to all the threads. She was told all but the swap threads since she didn't have any GBs. Awhile later an experienced player joined and asked to be added to the swap threads and the new player said, "Add me too." I told her again that she couldn't use the threads since she didn't have any GBs. When she built a GB, we opened the 5 & 10 swap threads for her. As in the case above, I noticed she had not put any FPs on my GB when she posted after me. I began looking through the thread and discovered she hadn't done so for anyone. I had contacted her personally when I noticed it on my GB but when I saw that it affected everyone on the thread, I posted a "refresher message" of how to properly use the swap threads. She asked how she was supposed to know how to use them, read me the riot act and said that I had handled everything wrong...and left.

*We just had a new player to FoE join our guild last night. No GBs yet. Our current policy is to open the 5 & 10 FP threads so when new players do build a GB then can immediately begin participating in these two. Once again I explained all this in a private message to the player and I see today she is asking what the difference is between the 5 & 10 FP thread (ummmmm...duh!). I posted...again...that they were for when she built GBs and pointed her to the directions for how to use the swap threads that I put in our guild forums after one of these episodes.

Very strange and, after reading the posts above, I'm starting to think at least some of these are not honest mistakes.

 

[Czari]

Hanlon's Razor: Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.



I don't know either. I know that double-dipping was a big deal when I first started playing; every Guild I joined stressed its importance. Now three years later it seems like nobody cares about it anymore.

Double dipping is still a big deal in the guilds I'm in on three worlds.

 

[spnnr]

Can anyone think of any other way to combat this? We now send messages out before adding people in like I said but yet again it happened today with a new member about two weeks in who messaged back that he agreed and understood our rules before being given access. Other than letting the already small guild die out by not adding in new members I'm at a complete loss as to what the sudden confusing on swapping is all the sudden and sick at monitoring swap threads.

Haven't had the experience which you highlighted Manda in this small guild , however there was an issue with fps swaps when I was with an 80 member guild we did the following :
Don't add new ppl to all the fps thread instead add them to the 3 fps threads and have them demonstrate their prowess there. This usually takes a day or two . Once they pass that test or defects are caught open up the other threads on a phased basis.
This worked surprisingly well .

On the forum main threads also announce every so often for players to ensure donations are sent and received-this keeps players on their toes and keeps only the recalcitrant in check. Those can be dealt with otherwise.

 

[DeletedUser3882]

Part of it also is that people get spammed by their friends list now with GB-begging threads, and they may not make a distinction that the swap thread is not just another begging thread.

Consider also the effect of new players acquiring the BPs (plus the FPs required to build) for The Oracle of Delphi in their Stone/Bronze Age questline, but receiving zero help/knowledge on how to level it. This was a neat idea when first released I think, but we’re seeing some unintended consequences of today’s Snowflake society and No Gamer Left Behind mentality...

 

[DeletedUser29218]

Legitimately new players often don't understand them yes - it has always been thus. You just get more legitimately new players on newer worlds - (whatever world is currently 'recommended' to them. As you add new people to swap threads watch their activity on them and catch it early - of 3 who didn't get it i've had to remove 1.

Part of it also is that people get spammed by their friends list now with GB-begging threads, and they may not make a distinction that the swap thread is not just another begging thread.

New players doesn't necesarily start in new worlds. Sadly, I was recommended F world, which was a couple years old. By the time I knew it I didn't have the will to start from 0 again, even it were to be in a more just scenario.

 

[DeletedUser27889]

Part of it also is that people get spammed by their friends list now with GB-begging threads, and they may not make a distinction that the swap thread is not just another begging thread.

That's an excellent possibility. The new players who now have Oracle and the attachment button, along with mobiles ability to send everyone messages has brought on this new level of begging spam that was never in the game that I noticed before hand.

It's not even the common, sticks to bricks help or even the ever appreciated self leveler with open spots but just..people posting their GBs out to each other for no apparent reason.

Or...he couldn't find a gullible guild that would let him get away with cheating its members, so he decided to go find another world (or another game) where he could find people he could take advantage of.

It is possible that some people may be trying to game the system but that's always been a possibility and at least from my vantage point there's been an incredible influx of this issue popping up only recently. Of the 6-7 people that I've had to speak to in the last several months with this issue only most seemed genuinely remorseful and corrected their mistake, 1 did not speak enough English for me to get them to understand 1 did it again later and was removed.

Don't add new ppl to all the fps thread instead add them to the 3 fps threads and have them demonstrate their prowess there. This usually takes a day or two . Once they pass that test or defects are caught open up the other threads on a phased basis.
This worked surprisingly well .

That is a fantastic suggestion! Thank you I will be doing that as well from now on.

 

[Darth Mole]

I've founded a new Guild in z - up to 24 members. Most are new players. I've started a bunch of threads for the Guild that all start
(Guild Name) Emoje 5 FP Swap thread or
(Guild Name) Diff Emojoe Guild Expedition Thread
etc
etc

This way at least when it pops up in their inbox they'll know if's an official Guild thread. They all have the same look and feel which makes them stand out that bit better. There's about 7 different ones but they all stand out as Official threads.
We only have a 5FP swap thread at this stage and have had 4 members struggling -despite all the usual postings on how it works. A couple of members hadn't reached IA and so posted their Oracles and were stuck donating to the one above!
Admittedly a couple have just not got it.
I'm sure natural selection will weed out the stupid before too long. Darwin will be proud.

 

[spnnr]

I've founded a new Guild in z - up to 24 members. Most are new players. I've started a bunch of threads for the Guild that all start
(Guild Name) Emoje 5 FP Swap thread or
(Guild Name) Diff Emojoe Guild Expedition Thread
etc
etc

This way at least when it pops up in their inbox they'll know if's an official Guild thread. They all have the same look and feel which makes them stand out that bit better. There's about 7 different ones but they all stand out as Official threads.
We only have a 5FP swap thread at this stage and have had 4 members struggling -despite all the usual postings on how it works. A couple of members hadn't reached IA and so posted their Oracles and were stuck donating to the one above!
Admittedly a couple have just not got it.
I'm sure natural selection will weed out the stupid before too long. Darwin will be proud.

I have done quite a few small guilds resurrections/ help Darth so I feel your pain .

However it can be worth it- as many will eventually pick it up- and if you empower those ,they tend to help the others . The others will not participate until they are enticed by the success of the others . Once it starts to roll - your direct supervision will be lessen and you will only need to look at newcommers .

Sometimes you may need to make up the shortfall to avoid guild busting conflicts ..and gain a reputation

Have patience mate

 

[DeletedUser32439]

i understand, 5fp thread, u put 5fps in and then link your gb.

what i dont understand is what the whole point of it is.

if your not getting top 5 slots, then you may as well put your 5 fps in your own gb. i see it all the time . you have top slot, 200fp, 2nd 100fp, 3rd 80fp, 4th 70fp, 5th 60fp, and then a whole heap of ppl with 5 or 10 fps, ...i just dont see the point.

 

[spnnr]

i understand, 5fp thread, u put 5fps in and then link your gb.

what i dont understand is what the whole point of it is.

if your not getting top 5 slots, then you may as well put your 5 fps in your own gb. i see it all the time . you have top slot, 200fp, 2nd 100fp, 3rd 80fp, 4th 70fp, 5th 60fp, and then a whole heap of ppl with 5 or 10 fps, ...i just dont see the point.

Its an opportunity you are paying for. What rewards are there for taking those same 5fps and putting them in your own gb? The answer is little except a new level once you donate enough .

When you participate in swaps there is the opportunity to win gb leveling rewards AND still level your gb . Most guilds have multiple swap threads so you can check which gb you want to donate to.

Granted there are issues with higher leveled players dumping fps and cornering the market -but that's a guild management issue rather than an indictment of the swap system. Some players want to hog the top spot and as such do the heavy lifting and you can benefit from that.

 

[DeletedUser32328]

what i dont understand is what the whole point of it is.

if your not getting top 5 slots, then you may as well put your 5 fps in your own gb. i see it all the time . you have top slot, 200fp, 2nd 100fp, 3rd 80fp, 4th 70fp, 5th 60fp, and then a whole heap of ppl with 5 or 10 fps, ...i just dont see the point.

That is exactly the point. If you self-level you are guaranteed not to go get the rewards. Keep your eyes open, focus on a couple of guild mates' buildings and ultimately it's as the saying goes: spend money to make money.

 

[Czari]

This issue just struck again in my C world guild (ie. not a new world). Since we've been having this issue a lot lately and, after reading this thread, as the New Member Inviter and the person who adds new members to threads, welcomes them, etc. I posted updated guidelines to our leadership - basically if a person had no GBs don't add them to the threads; if a person is in Bronze/Iron Age with only an Oracle, just add to 5 & 10 FP threads until we know the person understands how to use them. There was no disagreement about this policy.

Last week I notice a new member had been added - Bronze Age with an Oracle - and was put in all our swap threads. During the process of taking the person out of all but the 5 &10 FP threads, I noticed the person who added him was an original Founder so I just left it alone but thought, "This isn't a good idea." Sure enough, last night I receive a message from one of our members saying that the new person apparently didn't understand how the swap threads worked, he and another member were due a good amount of FPs and both had messaged the new member but received no response. Of course I'm the one who gets the complaint; not the person who added him to all the threads just days after the new policy.

I contacted the member, copied in all leaders, asked that he reply ASAP so that we could get the situation sorted out and that, until then, we were removing him from all swap threads. Interestingly, after not responding to the other members, he responded to my message immediately saying, "I really didn't understand how to use the threads. (Ummm...then how about ASKING???) I thought we could just donate to whatever GB we wanted on the list." (This was the identical "understanding" of another person awhile back.) He said he would "try" to repay the FPs. I replied that if he had any questions at all to please ask so we can assist him and he will be reinstated to the swap threads AFTER he repays his guildmates. His response, "Fair enough."

During years of being in leadership in this guild in various capacities I've noticed a trend - a member who is not abiding by one of our guild guidelines is sent at least three messages before we remove him from the guild. There is never a response UNTIL the person has been removed from the guild (or a GB Club, or swap threads) and then is usually mad that we had the audacity to remove him.