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[Guide] Cosmic Raven's Version of Heavy Questing

DeletedUser29352

Cosmic Raven recomended to go straight to FE, without staying too long in PME, CE or TE, but parking a little bit in CE is not a bad idea at all, I think.
I am in CE now. I agree with you. It is a great era because you’re producing PE and CE goods simultaneously.
 

DeletedUser31771

How does heavy questing work in a new world where advanced age goods are hard to come by? I’m the only one in my guild with a LoA—the others have the OoD. I mean I am in the top 100 of Angkor and I am just getting out of BA tonight
 

DeletedUser31308

How does heavy questing work in a new world where advanced age goods are hard to come by? I’m the only one in my guild with a LoA—the others have the OoD. I mean I am in the top 100 of Angkor and I am just getting out of BA tonight
To be honest, you either buy the goods for the advanced era GBs with diamonds or wait 2-ish months for people to be selling PE goods. I recommend figuring out which guild will have goods sellers that sell cheap to guildies ASAP so you can get the best deal possible.
 

DeletedUser31771

To be honest, you either buy the goods for the advanced era GBs with diamonds or wait 2-ish months for people to be selling PE goods. I recommend figuring out which guild will have goods sellers that sell cheap to guildies ASAP so you can get the best deal possible.

Makes sense
 

DeletedUser31308

Makes sense
I also highly recommend Dulahan's Arc Rush guide over strict HQS. I started a city on Yorkton when it went up and initially planned on HQS before stumbling on that guide. Now, I have a level 35 Arc after 141 days in the server. That was helped by the following diamond purchases:

IT goods
Arc goods
CF goods
30 SoKs from the winter event

The IT was more for personal preference than actual progression, since I'm holding in HMA and have little need for all that pop. Without buying Arc/CF goods and the SoKs for diamonds, I'd likely be about 1-2 months behind where I'm at now, but the principle of the guide is the same. By focusing on my Arc, I've already unlocked tons more medal expansions than my HQS city did in the same period (about 700k medals at this point) and have FP production that honestly baffles most other players on the world, including my friends doing HQS. Just something to consider.
 

DeletedUser31308

Not everyone has enough diamonds to do things like that ;) It's not really proving ARC rush is better than HQ
I will tell you if my HQS friends have reached where I am in 2 months. Seeing as they're still getting their CFs to 10, I doubt it :).

There is no argument against the fact that raising an Arc gives multiple orders of magnitude more medals than following HQS does. Medals are a huge part of Raven's snowball that HQS is supposed to give you a lot of (and it does, compared to colo or GE or events), but Arc is even better. Arc also increases your FP production and gives you more quests (spend FP quests using FPs that will be refunded because of contribution. A high lvl arc gives far more BPs than quests ever will (see: my 60 full copies of oracle prints). There is nothing really that HQS can give you more of than an Arc rush.
 
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DeletedUser29352

I really think that Cosmic Raven got most things right in his guide. The spend x FPs quest only goes up a few points as you move up in ages. And never underestimate the benefits of having 2 quests working simultaneously. So I favor parking in CA over parking in HMA. But you need to park in one of them to level your GBs to level 10.

Where he obviously missed the boat was super leveling the arc. Getting a level 80 arc is key. But I don’t think that you benefit by trying to accomplish that in HMA. And it is a huge mistake to stay there after you have a lvl 80 Arc. I never stopped trying to level my Arc, but I also didn’t focus on that exclusively until my other GBs were at least level 10. I spent a long time in CA, but I didn’t wait there until my Arc got to level 80 before leaving. And my Arc still got to level 80. Moving out of CA let me spend more time in the higher ages. Because I had a full set of leveled great buildings I was able to accumulate a lot of goods and troops in every age between CA and CE (my current age) with a much shorter stay. If I was still in HMA with a small city and only a single quest, I would be so far behind where I am now.

I currently have a level 82 Arc and a level 61 CF. My perspective on quests has changed dramatically now. Medals are irrelevant so I hate to get them. But I am also mildly disappointed if I get an FP pack. The only quest rewards that I want are ones that give me 25 goods or give me supplies. I’m not quite to the point where I could sit and do that on birthday quest all day long, but I’m close. I don’t have any supply buildings and I don’t drop below 10 million supplies regardless of how many times I do that quest. But if I just sat around looping, I would run out of supplies eventually. So I continue to level my CF.
 

DeletedUser31308

I really think that Cosmic Raven got most things right in his guide. The spend x FPs quest only goes up a few points as you move up in ages. And never underestimate the benefits of having 2 quests working simultaneously. So I favor parking in CA over parking in HMA. But you need to park in one of them to level your GBs to level 10.

Where he obviously missed the boat was super leveling the arc. Getting a level 80 arc is key. But I don’t think that you benefit by trying to accomplish that in HMA. And it is a huge mistake to stay there after you have a lvl 80 Arc. I never stopped trying to level my Arc, but I also didn’t focus on that exclusively until my other GBs were at least level 10. I spent a long time in CA, but I didn’t wait there until my Arc got to level 80 before leaving. And my Arc still got to level 80. Moving out of CA let me spend more time in the higher ages. Because I had a full set of leveled great buildings I was able to accumulate a lot of goods and troops in every age between CA and CE (my current age) with a much shorter stay. If I was still in HMA with a small city and only a single quest, I would be so far behind where I am now.

I currently have a level 82 Arc and a level 61 CF. My perspective on quests has changed dramatically now. Medals are irrelevant so I hate to get them. But I am also mildly disappointed if I get an FP pack. The only quest rewards that I want are ones that give me 25 goods or give me supplies. I’m not quite to the point where I could sit and do that on birthday quest all day long, but I’m close. I don’t have any supply buildings and I don’t drop below 10 million supplies regardless of how many times I do that quest. But if I just sat around looping, I would run out of supplies eventually. So I continue to level my CF.

My personal intention is to get my Arc to 80 while in HMA (since I've done the math, and make more FPs here). Not to mention, at the moment, the 1500 FPs it would take to get to clockmakers is enough for me to lock 1st on my swap partners level 46 Arc about 5 different times (I lose ~80 FP per level after contrib reward), netting me ~6000 FP on my Arc from our swap as well as ~150k medals (which I still need at this point, I have 10 medal expansions left). Every one of my swap partners that moved to CA fell behind me in our swaps since you don't recoup any of that cost by being there.

The best argument for the move to CA, imo, is getting the more valuable goods. I think, though, that the extra time with a lvl 80 Arc is absurdly valuable. I'll be one of 2 or 3 lvl 80 Arcs that everyone will be messaging to 180% lock their GBs as well as being able to snipe every Arc that comes up behind me through the golden levels. For me, having thousands of CA goods isn't worth losing time where I can be making thousands of FPs per day off snipes and 180% locks.
 

DeletedUser29352

The goods in HMA have no value. Goods in CA have little value. You will have a bigger city in CA and 2 quest lines. I am not impressed by people that claim to have done the math. The thread that tries to calculate the break even point for a perpetual CF in various ages is wildly wrong. That is because there are many important variables (effect of other great buildings, special buildings that give multipliers for supplies/coins, one versus two quest lines, etc.) that are ignored. That is why I love to compare my city to HQS’ city. Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but we started at the same time and he has an incredible advantage by being in a fully mature world so that he can pair up with multiple level 80 Arcs to level his great buildings, has limitless opportunities to take first and second on high-level buildings. Things I don’t have. And yet my city is worlds ahead of his. I think it’s because he and his tiny city are stuck in HMA.
 

DeletedUser31440

The thread that tries to calculate the break even point for a perpetual CF in various ages is wildly wrong. That is because there are many important variables (effect of other great buildings, special buildings that give multipliers for supplies/coins, one versus two quest lines, etc.) that are ignored.

The only thing that makes a CF into a perpetual motion machine is if the coins and supplies generated while doing UBQ's exceeds the amount spent. But please do explain how other things need to be accounted for.
 

DeletedUser31308

The goods in HMA have no value. Goods in CA have little value. You will have a bigger city in CA and 2 quest lines. I am not impressed by people that claim to have done the math. The thread that tries to calculate the break even point for a perpetual CF in various ages is wildly wrong. That is because there are many important variables (effect of other great buildings, special buildings that give multipliers for supplies/coins, one versus two quest lines, etc.) that are ignored. That is why I love to compare my city to HQS’ city. Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but we started at the same time and he has an incredible advantage by being in a fully mature world so that he can pair up with multiple level 80 Arcs to level his great buildings, has limitless opportunities to take first and second on high-level buildings. Things I don’t have. And yet my city is worlds ahead of his. I think it’s because he and his tiny city are stuck in HMA.
I don't understand math haters. Yes, math gives a wrong result when done incorrectly, but math done correctly has gotten us to the moon, launched satellites, and enabled the internet we are communicating on. I calculated how many FP/day my current city produces. I looked at how many expansions I would get from the move to CA, and designed the CA city I would use when I got there including the extra space. I then calculated how many FP/day that city would make, and it was less. Calculating FP/day has little room for error, aside from bugs in spreadsheets (like calculating how the supply/coin bonuses stack wrong). The space difference between the two ages was minimal (8 expansions, compared to the 72 4x4s I currently have, just over a 10% size increase). In comparison, the amount of total quests I could do was cut almost in half, though it is based on the specifics of my city (All my coin production is SoKs, which I won't reno, so my coin production won't increase at all from the jump. Meaning my collect coins quests would be cut by 1/4 and UBQs I could afford would be cut by 1/3). The second questline helps a bit, but it does not double quests done to bring me back to my current figures. If I had more FP producing buildings, and no space for them , the matter would be different.
 

DeletedUser31308

The only thing that makes a CF into a perpetual motion machine is if the coins and supplies generated while doing UBQ's exceeds the amount spent. But please do explain how other things need to be accounted for.
I think it is a valid point that in practice, you do have production from other sources and can hit a point where you don't have enough time in a day to be able to reduce your coin/supply count way before the CF alone actually hits perpetual motion. And Prisca is right that the second and third questlines don't get factored in, if I remember right. Still, I agree that the perpetual motion page shouldn't take into account city production as it's intent is to show how you can "go infinite" with only a CF, nothing else.
 

DeletedUser31440

I think it is a valid point that in practice, you do have production from other sources and can hit a point where you don't have enough time in a day to be able to reduce your coin/supply count way before the CF alone actually hits perpetual motion. And Prisca is right that the second and third questlines don't get factored in, if I remember right. Still, I agree that the perpetual motion page shouldn't take into account city production as it's intent is to show how you can "go infinite" with only a CF, nothing else.

In terms of practicality you're right, but in terms of the CF being perpetual motion the only factors are coin and supply generation through UBQ's. The perpetual motion numbers for the ages with 2nd RQ giver are:
Age - No 2nd RQ - With 2nd RQ Required Boost % (Level for that Boost %)
LMA - 740 (128) - 550 (90)
CA - 1175 (215) - 900 (160)
Indy - 1375 (255) - 1045 (189)
PE - 1300 (240) - 1035 (187)
ME - 1385 (257) - 1120 (204)
PME - 1300 (240) - 1010 (182)
CE - 1145 (209) - 945 (169)
TE - 985 (177) - 830 (146)
FE - 1300 (240) - 1000 (180)
AF - 1165 (213) - 895 (159)
 

Snarko

Active Member
I think it is a valid point that in practice, you do have production from other sources and can hit a point where you don't have enough time in a day to be able to reduce your coin/supply count way before the CF alone actually hits perpetual motion. And Prisca is right that the second and third questlines don't get factored in, if I remember right. Still, I agree that the perpetual motion page shouldn't take into account city production as it's intent is to show how you can "go infinite" with only a CF, nothing else.
I agree that the page shouldn't take those factors into account. In practice however it may be more efficient to focus on supply production once your CF is highly leveled. (CF itself should at that point unbalance things in favor of coins)

Of course nobody (sane) would spend that amount of time on the game. The entire discussion is kind of moot because of that factor: time. For someone only willing to spend an hour per day on the game their version of "perpetual motion" could be achieved at comparatively low CF levels, because of coins and supplies from other sources.
 

DeletedUser29218

In my opinion, there are 3 different types of permanent recurring quests:

1- Unrealistic permanent UBQ. What has been described as perpetual CF before. In my opinion, it should take into account only the number of RQ slots, CF lvl and era. This case describes someone crazy enough to spent several hours per day cycling quests, so I'd say the extra coins/supplies you get from your city are negligible.

2- Realistic permanent spent FP. When you are in a world mature enough to have several 80 arcs, and agree to trade fps at 0 cost.

3- Realistic permanent FP + UBQ. Same as above, but you have CF at a lvl enough to get back close to 50% of a ubq (so you end up neutral after 1 spent fp + ubq). I think in this case "close to" 50% is descriptive enough and I might aim to reach this stage some day.
 

DeletedUser29218

That is why I love to compare my city to HQS’ city.

It is funny that you love to compare my city with yours when:

1- You spent $$ to purchase:

- Over 50 soks
- Goods (and probably) BPs for Arc, Frontenac, IT, Atlantis Museum, Alcatraz.
Several rogue hideouts, winner's plaza, lvl 7 bridges, Cherry sets, elephant sets, etc.

2- You started slightly ahead in time than I did.

3- YET your GBs are behindt mines. That requires some effort.
Your 2nd highest GB is 10+ lvls behind mine
Your 3rd highest GB is not even lvl 15, more than 30 lvls behind any of 4 of my GBs.

4- Considering how many diamonds you purchased, you could have been in the top 3 players to reach 80 arc. Saying that you have fewer opportunities is sad.

Wait a few weeks until Thruthehead gets his to 80 and lets hear his feedback then. I'm looking forward to hearing the aproximate amount of FPs he gets per day. He'll probably have a massive advantage over anyone else because he will be the reference arc everyone will ask for, and doesn't have to compete against 100+ arcs like we do in old server.

He also spent some diamonds (but less than half you did). However, his strategy is much better than yours. He took my guide as a baseline, modified some parts of it that could be improved and also discovered something that I missed.
 

DeletedUser29352

I think it is a valid point that in practice, you do have production from other sources and can hit a point where you don't have enough time in a day to be able to reduce your coin/supply count way before the CF alone actually hits perpetual motion. And Prisca is right that the second and third questlines don't get factored in, if I remember right. Still, I agree that the perpetual motion page shouldn't take into account city production as it's intent is to show how you can "go infinite" with only a CF, nothing else.
If the intent is to ignore city production and everything else, then it is garbage in garbage out. A meaningless exercise.

HQS you have shown so many times that you’re really not very bright. I would use the I word but I worry that some idiot might get offended. Diamonds are not the key. Good game play is, but you don’t know anything about that clearly. You are 2 million points behind and we started the same time. I am in the top 50 in my world and you barely crack the top 1000. So run along, little one.
 

DeletedUser31308

If the intent is to ignore city production and everything else, then it is garbage in garbage out. A meaningless exercise.
You DO know that even engineers developing the bleeding edge technologies of this world do initial designs and frameworks using a set of assumptions to simplify the system, even if those assumptions won't always be true in practice? It would be incredibly difficult/impossible for the article owner to come up with and cleanly present to us a chart of practical break evens on the CF in different ages with various levels of natural city productions. And that information would hardly be more useful than the current information presented since every city is different and it would be unlikely the article writer would happen to have considered a situation exactly like yours. So, instead, we get information that provides a useful framework, and it is up to us to apply it to our individual situations. It's the much more efficient approach.
 
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