The new North American map and the peoples to be conquered is a bit disturbing. The near annihilation (sp?) of the American Native American peoples is a stain upon US history. While your depiction may well be accurate, it is somewhat problematic. This was about colonization rather than nation v nation as the previous map showed. Please consider rethinking this feature of the game. Maybe staying with the mostly fantasy land of the fictional continent that has been replaced.
I think you should take a read on the thread
@sloppyjoeslayer linked. The OP did a much better job dissecting what the 'problem' is. The "Sitting Duck" is the only thing I can confidently call casual racism.
Regardless, I'd argue that FoE making it a nation versus nation is actually giving the First Nations more credit than normal history classes. My guess is most U.S. history just shows us 'We (white guys?) won and were amazing, also those Injuns helped a bit, not that we care. Also the Trail of Tears was sad'.
So the real question becomes, what do you want out of this 'rethinking' for this part of the game? Your request is vague and that does a disservice to any 'Justice' you may be seeking.
Of course, I also wouldn't be surprised if this is a throwaway account. The question being, do you actually care, are you attempting to mirror SirenDenied but lack the time or intelligence to replicate it or are you attempting to get a rise out of people by masquerading as a derp SJW?
Some folks have what I call as "mimosa pudica syndrome".
We are in a war game, and we want to kill each other
smh
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/columbus-day-event.11175/
Eh, I see why people use SJW so much. These people attempt to seem sensitive to the issues they present, but don't seem to realize (Or know exactly what they are doing with the troll) that their arguments need to be persuasive on more than a knee-jerk emotional level. The person you linked went straight Godwin within 3 sentences. Everything after that is tainted because they appear to be trying to emotionally manipulate us into agreeing with them or we are 'Nazis'. A sensitive plant would have more sense.
I mean, I agree that Columbus Day is an ethical joke if we are to believe the history of the guy, but until the 'Anti-Columbus Day' Crowd can come up with a good replacement, I don't see any reason to cancel a federal holiday. Use it to educate the masses about history. There we go, we can rename it "Colonialism Day". If that seems to 'anti-white'(Check your narrative and their agenda for feeding you that line), maybe "Explorer Day" would work? Same focus on history and takes out the weird hero worship.
T
In my city in Canada, there was a bridge named after one of the founding fathers of our country. He served in both provincial and federal governments, fought corruption, and generally did a good job. Except he supported the Residential Schools System's creation. (For those not familiar, think enforced boarding school where native children were forceably taken from their families, confined, beaten, sometimes raped, and generally an attempt to re-educate them to "civilized" society rather than "savagery")
We can all look back and say that this was horrible. But at the time, this man's intention was to "elevate" the natives to the same level as the European settlers. He wasn't intentionally evil (like Hitler and the Holocaust) but very misguided about the importance of one culture vs. another.
The apology is absolutely necessary, but stripping the name and ignoring any good the person did, and trying to avoid discussing what was done wrong is, I think, a mistake.
Same thing here. Mistakes were made. Its an uncomfortable truth. We shouldn't be avoiding that we should be facing it as a reminder of what we've done wrong before and what we shouldn't do again.
To me, it depends on how much the founding father was in on the atrocities of the School system. If his role stopped before the forceably taken from families and confinement, I agree with everything you say. If he condoned the former and/or the beatings, depends on the severity of the beatings and distance of separation. Rape? Nope. That's an ethical line that can't be excused.
Regardless, we have to look closely at the accounting sheet. Does doing "X" amount of good truly excuse someone for doing "Y" bad? Who gets to determine those values? I'm sure those values change depending if you asked a family that experienced the RSS versus another that did not.
Personally, I see no wrong done in stripping a person's name from a building. There is a difference between avoiding the past and stopping hero worship. If we care about history, then a building named after historical events makes more sense than one historical name involved with the whole affair. My question is, why is removing one person's name 'avoiding discussions & ignoring any good the person did'? I don't understand the logical leap there.
People using the word "problematic" un-ironically always makes me a little sad.
People who believe that certain words should always be used ironically makes me very sad. I find it 'problematic' that people don't realize how much that stinks of nihilism or how hedonistic it makes their character look. I also find it 'problematic' when I have constipation or an asthma attack. Is that ironic?
Well, let's not kid ourselves, people have killed people before and since people evolved to be people, I see no real sign it will ever end therefore will be repeated. Funny though on this particular topic, it came up on the EN forum as well. Seems some people have no problem conquering white people but when it comes to the first non white Province Owner suddenly it's disturbing, offensive and racist.
First Nation/Native American Racism In-Game
http://forgeofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Province_Owners
I gotta admit, SirenDenied, pedantic & SJW as they were(are?), had a point or two in their assessment. I think they should have dug into the 'unintelligent' responses more to avoid coming off as an Ivory Tower Horse rider and they would have promoted more of the 'dialogue' they were looking for. Dismissing the 'dumb' people isn't going to help educate people. If anything, the 'stupid' people should be priority #1.
Then again, their initial salvo analogized the relatively minor 'Sitting Duck' racism to Hitler (GODWIN!!!!! *shakes fist*) & slavery... So I feel they reaped what they sowed with that. I'm all about discussing racism, casual racism, cultural appropriation, blah blah blah, but why take it to SJW 11 and play the Hitler & slavery card so early if the intent was to have a discussion... The better comparison would be the usage term nigger, queer or other racial/cultural epithets. Maybe that hits too many sensitive spots (and filters) while the good ole Hitler card is just so easy to play... *sighs & shrugs* Disappointing.
I don't get how these types proclaim their objective to be starting a discussion and then shut-down the discussion when people don't discuss it 'the way they want'. I guess I'll have to make things right.
WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED:
Hey! Looks like Inno used some 'casual racism' with their naming of 'Sitting Duck'.
Now I'm sure you all know about Colonialism and how that was a bundle of fun. So don't forget to advocate for Columbus day being renamed Colonialism day! Education > Hero Worship (But keep the Holiday)!
Anyhow, Why 'casual racism'? Because Sitting Duck is making fun of the tradition of taking spirit animal names. Was this tradition common among all First Nation tribes? I don't know! Maybe we should google it and see! Regardless of prevalence, it is a common cultural marker for 'Indians'(India was really big back in the day...) and due to it's spirituality component, we should see making fun of it as the equivalent of making fun of any other religion. If you don't see how naming a leader 'Sitting Duck' as a 'make-fun-of' action, please ask questions, we are here to help (well, some of us...).
So, to do a proper comparison, we need to see if the other leaders we have conquered are named in a similar style. After all, if Inno is making fun of EVERYONE, then nobody is special or getting special treatment. Upon reckless examination, I have concluded that Inno has not done so with all those 'crackers' we beat up in the Middle Ages. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Ergo, we must come to the conclusion that someone wanted to have a fun little joke with the First Nations representative in the C-Map. Racist? A wee bit. Sad? Depends on your 'mimosa pudica' rating. Pitchfork Worthy? I mean... I'd rather talk to some First Nation people, learn their experiences and see how they feel on the subject. If they are upset and request help, then sure. Let's pitchfork after their testimonials! Nazis? GTFO. Seriously, out! Authoritarianism and how people in power are driven to discriminate is fine, but let's stop skipping from normalized language/ignorant racism to 'Final Solutions'. It's tiresome and really boinks the discussion, eh?
Anywho, as much as I joke, I hope I conveyed how 'Sitting Duck' can come up as a blip on the racism radar. Hopefully I can get some time this week to do a better job at 'discussing' it than these other yahoos.
