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Oceanic Future units are the best (so far).

DeletedUser33036

I have been in the OF for quite some time now(3ish months), and have noticed that almost every unit has atleast some niche use. Turtles are great all around with, with gliders being a perfect counter to them. Scimitars are great aganist anything that is not artillery. Subs are the first contact contact unit since anti air craft guns to have an decent range. Octopi are decent aganist units with short range, and so on. The only units i would consider bad are the crabs and mantas. Now that VF has been out for awhile now. What do you think of OF combat, and do you think VF will live up to it, once all units are released?
 

DeletedUser26120

You didn't mention medusa? Or CRAB mech?

I'm trying to go through the storyline in TE/FE to get OF troops so I was very interested in this thread. :)

I have no experience with OF troops, except losing to Turturrets on All Ages gvg.

What are your thoughts on the two units I mentioned?
 

DeletedUser33036

Crabs have such short range, and movement that they have trouble dealing with other units. They are really only optimal when dealing with eels. Medusas are ok since they can hit first, but turturrets overshadow them, as they tend to be able to kill more enemies in one turn, and can even hit stealthed flying units through aoe.
 

DeletedUser29726

My thoughts:
OF was extremely poorly thought out
1) the hover tank, a unit from 2 eras earlier, runs roughshod over the vast majority of units, and pretty much any mixed slate of them. Even moreso since its adjustment which really just made it a little more vulnerable to VF units. In some case it made it STRONGER against AF and OF units.
2) most of the units have no role and their abilities are often more flavor than useful.
- the manta doesn't have enough range to retaliate with contact against the eel, one of the units it's supposed to counter
- the octopod's ability never gets used. it's just a wad of stats that gets blown up by artillery. can't do anything that couldn't be done by any number of other units.
- the nautilus is 100% inferior to its sub cousin. contact and dug-in > energy shield.
- the scimitar is like a worse dragon drone (much higher stats - but no flying makes it hard to use the same way - waiting for a turn just out of range gives the enemy artillery free shots)
- the crab is too short of range to be usable in general
- the medusa is little more than a surprise all ages GvG defense for hover tanks
- the glider's abilities are useless (no amount of swarming can let them survive two hits from anything relevant in the age). The only perk is that it's a new flying unit but usually a dragon drone can fill the fights where that matters as well as a glider.
3) having 10 units means even where there is a particular defense that might justify a niche unit, you *never* see it in GE.

VF is looking even worse
- Ronin Bot : was the bread and butter unit of the age... about to give way to artillery
- Samurai : contact, range 1. what is it retaliating against? "we'll understand better in future parts". All this means to me is we're likely going to get a really bad fast unit too.
- Rocket Squad : well we finally gave a heavy that could handle a couple artillery on defense again... oops! turturret on roids away! Turturrets were already a viable counter to ronin, and the VF artillery is the same ability with double the stats.
- Ninja : primarily defensive annoyance unit. would be situationally useful in mixed offenses if you had to - but mostly you don't. You'd also need to use surrender and restart a fair bit to get good forests/landing spots.

Balance as it will sit after part 2 is released:
Rocket Squad obliterates Samurai and Ronin
Ninja annoys Rocket Squad - enough of them will be prohibitive to using the artillery in two wave encounters with a significant number of ninjas in wave 1.
Ronin survives Ninja but can't really protect things from them. Also beats any defense that doesn't have much artillery.
Samurai isn't really good enough to do anything better than a Ronin Bot.

Hover Tank beats all of them with patience but the stats are getting high enough that they're challenged.
Dragon Drone is also situationally useful with the same stat challenge caveat.
Glider may finally see a use as having enough stats for when you want a flyer because there's a ton of artillery.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
Dragon Drone is also situationally useful with the same stat challenge caveat.
Glider may finally see a use as having enough stats for when you want a flyer because there's a ton of artillery.

Try Combat Drone instead.
 

DeletedUser33036

My thoughts:
OF was extremely poorly thought out
1) the hover tank, a unit from 2 eras earlier, runs roughshod over the vast majority of units, and pretty much any mixed slate of them. Even moreso since its adjustment which really just made it a little more vulnerable to VF units. In some case it made it STRONGER against AF and OF units.
2) most of the units have no role and their abilities are often more flavor than useful.
- the manta doesn't have enough range to retaliate with contact against the eel, one of the units it's supposed to counter
- the octopod's ability never gets used. it's just a wad of stats that gets blown up by artillery. can't do anything that couldn't be done by any number of other units.
- the nautilus is 100% inferior to its sub cousin. contact and dug-in > energy shield.
- the scimitar is like a worse dragon drone (much higher stats - but no flying makes it hard to use the same way - waiting for a turn just out of range gives the enemy artillery free shots)
- the crab is too short of range to be usable in general
- the medusa is little more than a surprise all ages GvG defense for hover tanks
- the glider's abilities are useless (no amount of swarming can let them survive two hits from anything relevant in the age). The only perk is that it's a new flying unit but usually a dragon drone can fill the fights where that matters as well as a glider.
3) having 10 units means even where there is a particular defense that might justify a niche unit, you *never* see it in GE.

VF is looking even worse
- Ronin Bot : was the bread and butter unit of the age... about to give way to artillery
- Samurai : contact, range 1. what is it retaliating against? "we'll understand better in future parts". All this means to me is we're likely going to get a really bad fast unit too.
- Rocket Squad : well we finally gave a heavy that could handle a couple artillery on defense again... oops! turturret on roids away! Turturrets were already a viable counter to ronin, and the VF artillery is the same ability with double the stats.
- Ninja : primarily defensive annoyance unit. would be situationally useful in mixed offenses if you had to - but mostly you don't. You'd also need to use surrender and restart a fair bit to get good forests/landing spots.

Balance as it will sit after part 2 is released:
Rocket Squad obliterates Samurai and Ronin
Ninja annoys Rocket Squad - enough of them will be prohibitive to using the artillery in two wave encounters with a significant number of ninjas in wave 1.
Ronin survives Ninja but can't really protect things from them. Also beats any defense that doesn't have much artillery.
Samurai isn't really good enough to do anything better than a Ronin Bot.

Hover Tank beats all of them with patience but the stats are getting high enough that they're challenged.
Dragon Drone is also situationally useful with the same stat challenge caveat.
Glider may finally see a use as having enough stats for when you want a flyer because there's a ton of artillery.
Looks like you are talking mainly about GvG. I find the glider superior to dragon drones as it can actually hit units on the first turn. A good counter for 4 or more artillery. The scimitar is decent as long as no artillery is involved. Medusa could be used as a counter to hover tanks. Of GvG is quite different from GE and the world map.
 

DeletedUser29726

Looks like you are talking mainly about GvG. I find the glider superior to dragon drones as it can actually hit units on the first turn. A good counter for 4 or more artillery. The scimitar is decent as long as no artillery is involved. Medusa could be used as a counter to hover tanks. Of GvG is quite different from GE and the world map.

Mainly GE - But with notes on GvG to justify a few units existence. In OF I really did run hover tanks for over half the encounters in GE - and I could've used them in all, but turturret-based armies were faster when applicable. In VF I have fought all of it using a mixture of hover tanks, ronin bots, and turturrets - but I negotiate GE4 now that I've fought it a couple times because it's faster than manual fighting, more reliable than auto fighting, and i'm lazy.
 

DeletedUser33036

Mainly GE - But with notes on GvG to justify a few units existence. In OF I really did run hover tanks for over half the encounters in GE - and I could've used them in all, but turturret-based armies were faster when applicable. In VF I have fought all of it using a mixture of hover tanks, ronin bots, and turturrets - but I negotiate GE4 now that I've fought it a couple times because it's faster than manual fighting, more reliable than auto fighting, and i'm lazy.
They better make VF's fast unit flying or they will have little to counter rocket troops with.
 

DeletedUser29726

They better make VF's fast unit flying or they will have little to counter rocket troops with.

One speculation was that the fast unit will be drone swarm 2.0 to justify Samurai Contact @ range 1. Which will solidify VF as a bad joke ;) But it would be a flying unit to irritate rocket squads in that case.

The last half-decently balanced age militarily was TE. The last really well balanced age was PE. I don't really have high expectations from them now.
 

DeletedUser33036

One speculation was that the fast unit will be drone swarm 2.0 to justify Samurai Contact @ range 1. Which will solidify VF as a bad joke ;) But it would be a flying unit to irritate rocket squads in that case.

The last half-decently balanced age militarily was TE. The last really well balanced age was PE. I don't really have high expectations from them now.
Drone swarm was so bad, only missles were worse units. They really should stop making contact units with bad range.
 

DeletedUser29726

Drone swarm was so bad, only missles were worse units. They really should stop making contact units with bad range.

Missile Artillery isn't bad (apart from recent bugs). It's very situational in an age with one of the most busted units in the game for its age (AAV) so you don't really *need* to use it, but it does have a place if you want it to.
 

Zatrikon

Well-Known Member
I mostly agree with xivarmy.

One or two Medusas can be useful to take out a single steathy unit, leaving the rest to be handled by Turturrets or Rocket Troops. But expect the Medusas to die very quickly. Medusas will not survive to the second wave of a two-wave battle. So they're useless against stealth in the second wave.

Mantas are pretty much there to annoy you when you have to fight against them, but they're not particularly effective to use. Sub Cruisers beat them always with the greater range.

Nautiluses (Nautili?) are ridiculous. If a Porsche and a Kia were the same price, you'd never buy a Kia. (In case it wasn't obvious, The Nautilus is the Kia, and the Sub Cruiser is the Porsche.)

CRABs are useful only against slower-moving stealthies and flyers. The unit that was "intended" to be the anti-stealth unit is less effective than the Scimitars.

Scimitars I have found to be quite useful against stealthies, such as Eels. With their high speed and immunity to retaliation, and occasionally hitting multiple units at the same time, they make a great compliment to Turturrets.

Eels are theoretically useful, but even vs an army with nothing that can hit stealth, you can usually get the job done faster with Turturrets and Sub Cruisers. Eels are sort of like the Mantas - there to annoy you when you have to fight against them, but not so great to use yourself. Put one or two in your defending army, to prevent people from attacking you with all Turturrets.

Octopi can be useful against Scimitars and Eels, when there are other units you can shoot at. The scimitars rush up to your units, so you then position the Octopod next to multiple units, and then shoot another - doing damage to many units at once. Put an Octopod next to an Eel and fire at something else, doing damage to the Eel without taking retaliation. But yes, it's very dependant on the situation.

In OF, Turturrets and Sub Cruisers do at least 90% of your work. If there are a lot of stealthy units, substitute Scimitars for the Subs. If there's only one stealthy, maybe throw in one Medusa or two. Most of the time, I use 4 Turts and 4 Subs. Most of the rest of the time, I'll use 4 Turts and 4 Scims. And Most of the rest of the time, I'll use 4 Turts, 2 Subs, and 2 Scims. On rare occasions, I'll use 1-2 Medusa, Octos or CRABS.

In VF, the Rocket Troops are the obvious most useful unit - the direct sequel to Turturrets. Ronin Bots are a good, solid workhorse to hit those flyers.

Ninjas are rather unimpressive. Rapid deployment is nice, but there aren't enough forests around, and the Ninjas either don't have enough movement to get to the nearest one, or when they do, they don't have enough range to hit anything once they're there. They combine the weakness of the Medusa with the weakness of the Manta.

Augmented Samurai should be renamed "Retarded Samurai". They belong in the same "Don't call us, we'll call you" category as the Drummers and Color Guards. And IIRC, there's even a Story Quest that *requires* you to build a Dojo for them. OK, so build it, but don't bother unlocking the third slot.
 

DeletedUser33036

I mostly agree with xivarmy.

One or two Medusas can be useful to take out a single steathy unit, leaving the rest to be handled by Turturrets or Rocket Troops. But expect the Medusas to die very quickly. Medusas will not survive to the second wave of a two-wave battle. So they're useless against stealth in the second wave.

Mantas are pretty much there to annoy you when you have to fight against them, but they're not particularly effective to use. Sub Cruisers beat them always with the greater range.

Nautiluses (Nautili?) are ridiculous. If a Porsche and a Kia were the same price, you'd never buy a Kia. (In case it wasn't obvious, The Nautilus is the Kia, and the Sub Cruiser is the Porsche.)

CRABs are useful only against slower-moving stealthies and flyers. The unit that was "intended" to be the anti-stealth unit is less effective than the Scimitars.

Scimitars I have found to be quite useful against stealthies, such as Eels. With their high speed and immunity to retaliation, and occasionally hitting multiple units at the same time, they make a great compliment to Turturrets.

Eels are theoretically useful, but even vs an army with nothing that can hit stealth, you can usually get the job done faster with Turturrets and Sub Cruisers. Eels are sort of like the Mantas - there to annoy you when you have to fight against them, but not so great to use yourself. Put one or two in your defending army, to prevent people from attacking you with all Turturrets.

Octopi can be useful against Scimitars and Eels, when there are other units you can shoot at. The scimitars rush up to your units, so you then position the Octopod next to multiple units, and then shoot another - doing damage to many units at once. Put an Octopod next to an Eel and fire at something else, doing damage to the Eel without taking retaliation. But yes, it's very dependant on the situation.

In OF, Turturrets and Sub Cruisers do at least 90% of your work. If there are a lot of stealthy units, substitute Scimitars for the Subs. If there's only one stealthy, maybe throw in one Medusa or two. Most of the time, I use 4 Turts and 4 Subs. Most of the rest of the time, I'll use 4 Turts and 4 Scims. And Most of the rest of the time, I'll use 4 Turts, 2 Subs, and 2 Scims. On rare occasions, I'll use 1-2 Medusa, Octos or CRABS.

In VF, the Rocket Troops are the obvious most useful unit - the direct sequel to Turturrets. Ronin Bots are a good, solid workhorse to hit those flyers.

Ninjas are rather unimpressive. Rapid deployment is nice, but there aren't enough forests around, and the Ninjas either don't have enough movement to get to the nearest one, or when they do, they don't have enough range to hit anything once they're there. They combine the weakness of the Medusa with the weakness of the Manta.

Augmented Samurai should be renamed "Retarded Samurai". They belong in the same "Don't call us, we'll call you" category as the Drummers and Color Guards. And IIRC, there's even a Story Quest that *requires* you to build a Dojo for them. OK, so build it, but don't bother unlocking the third slot.
For build quests you can just sell the building once you have started it, and you will still get credit.
 

Zatrikon

Well-Known Member
I have to revise my opinion of the Augmented Samurais somewhat. They can be useful as "stealth hunters". Because of their high speed and bonus against Fast units, they do very well at flushing out the Eels.

Unfortunately, they aren't nearly as effective against Ninjas (ranged, rather than fast).
 

DeletedUser33036

Is it possible to get VF units early in OF, or are they locked behind a quest?
 

Zatrikon

Well-Known Member
AFAIK, there's absolutely no way to get units for an age you haven't reached yet. Any awarded units will always be from your current age (except for Rogues, Drummers, and Color Guards). And any awarded military buildings will always be from your current age (except Rogue Hideouts, Drummer Garbage Cans, and Color Guard Junk Piles).
 

DeletedUser36624

AFAIK, there's absolutely no way to get units for an age you haven't reached yet. Any awarded units will always be from your current age (except for Rogues, Drummers, and Color Guards). And any awarded military buildings will always be from your current age (except Rogue Hideouts, Drummer Garbage Cans, and Color Guard Junk Piles).
Well, of course there is. You can move ahead on the story quests/Cmap without moving ahead on the tech tree, and get some units ahead of era that way.
 

Zatrikon

Well-Known Member
Well, of course there is. You can move ahead on the story quests/Cmap without moving ahead on the tech tree, and get some units ahead of era that way.
I don't think that's possible. The game won't give you the story quests for the next age until you're actually in that age. The recurring quests will just keep recurring, and they won't give you units from the next age.
 
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