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Guild vs Guild Improvements Feedback

  • Thread starter DeletedUser4770
  • Start date

-Athena-

Active Member
I was so excited about the prospect of the champ farmers losing their inflated points that I am seeing I may not have read everything thoroughly.
Here is my feedback and suggestions on each proposed change:

Additional Recalculation Timers
Probably the biggest change we plan to implement is that we're going to change the daily calculation to a 4-hourly calculation. A huge draw of GvG is the camaraderie at reset time when the strategizing and teamwork happens. I agree something has to be done about lag and glitches but many of us have stuck it out in this game because of the people we GvG with and I think it would be a huge mistake to take that away. What if you had fewer calculation times than you are suggesting like every 12 hours? I also think a guild shouldn't retake a tile they drop for at least 24 hours or somehow make it less desirable to retake. Beach bubbling the same tiles every night to protect their inner tiles as well as the all the champ farming just creates more lag I believe. If there has to be lag at least let it be because guilds are actually fighting other guilds in the true spirit of GvG.

With this we hope to improve the issues we have with lag around the recalculations, as well as increase the GvG participation by opening accessibility of the feature not only to those who are available during the recalculation time each day. Don't discount the impact that every new feature you add to the game and each time you have an event running has on bogging down this game.

Removal of Bronze Age Units. Sounds good.

Reduce Point Farming Profitability
To combat farming ranking points with Champions, once a sector is freed, all units that were placed there will be replaced with random, NPC units of the sector's age. In the All Age Map, the units will be replaced with units from the highest age. I like the end of champs for their inflated points but you also need to make sure people aren't just putting in EMA troops into the AA tiles and getting Space Age back at no cost to them. If they put EMA troops in and then drop the tile to farm then replace with random troops from the lowest era that were placed in that tile.

Confirmation Checkboxes Sounds good.

Camera FocusSounds good.

Bug Fixes
Finally, we plan to address several bug fixes specifically impacting GvG, to improve the quality of the feature. These bugfixes will be detailed in future changelogs. Waiting to hear more about this. First and foremost get the maps to reset/refresh so we can see bubbles up or down and sieges up or down and the siege/defense army boxes orange when a siege is down.
 
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-Athena-

Active Member
Athena. All they are doing is nerfing teams and strategy. It has nothing to do with "traffic".

I just find that the more champ farming and beach bubbling going on right at calc seems to make the maps more laggy. I see several guilds drop like 6 or 7 tiles to re-bubble at calc coupled with one of the largest guilds champ farming several tiles like starved salivating dogs being thrown red meat...you should see those swords fly. :rolleyes:
 

lemonwedgie

Well-Known Member
The only change they are talking about making is any sector to be taken


From Aonply77 who cannot log on right now: "The only changes they are proposing is making sectors that are currently protected for 24 hours in GVG unprotected in 4 hours and taking away champ farming. Ummmm...you like this? LOL Must be on a bad team that needs a little help from the developer so you can get some points. It should work as a huge point scheme...my guild is gonna make bazillions of points if they do this...we will exploit it so hard. The ghost swarm will be amazing for a month or two. And then....buh bye! lmao"

Ummm what? lmao why did you post on his behalf .. no point in you both looking silly ;-)

Not on a bad team at all ... but I can tell by the attitude that he just talks and believes every word he says. So Ramen Middle Man ... tell him to read my post again and maybe he might understand it better. Thanks.
 

DeletedUser28124

Reduce Point Farming Profitability
To combat farming ranking points with Champions, once a sector is freed, all units that were placed there will be replaced with random, NPC units of the sector's age. In the All Age Map, the units will be replaced with units from the highest age.

Seriously, the above is just completely and totally backwards in regard to a solution to the problem on the AA map. (where it mostly occurs).
Bottom line.. Point farming is not a huge problem on the other maps because of the fact that GOODS are involved. The fact that the medal costs remain so relatively LOW compared to the 100's of millons of medals higher end guilds have amassed is the problem in AA . It literally costs NOTHING to point farm these tiles, and you are really missing the point... SO here goes.

Reduce the point value of champions. They are the easiest troops to kill in any era and are for all intents and purposes completely useless troops other than to point from in the first place.

Next you are completely missing the point again in suggesting random auto refills with HIGH ERA troops, it should be the exact opposite, if you release a tile on the AA map, it should automatically fill with LOW era troops not HIGH. This maintains the exact purpose and intent of it being an "all ages" map where guilds and players of any era can participate , I would suggest YES have them fill with spears upon release. Or Iron era at best if you MUST get rid of spears...

Increase the amount of LZ's on the AA MAP, make the entire coastline everywhere on the map LZ's .


The over arching problems with how the AA map is set up are "ECONOMIC" ones and so easily solved, you are overthinking these solutions to the point of being ludicrous. The goal should be to make the AA map MORE inclusive to players of ALL AGES... Not Less, and a few simple tweeks to the cost structure and number of LZ's would completely fix the problem. You need to make the siege cost for guilds holding 40 or more tiles as high as it is in relative terms to what it costs on other maps in goods..... and take into consideration that your medal costs for sieging are totally out of whack. It's not a game mechanics issue at all, it's all in how you have it set up from the get go that is the problem.


So there you go, why not make things easy on yourselves as game developers and simply scale the medals cost per siege to make it commensurate with the goods cost on other maps? Simple isn't it? The biggest problem with AA is that you have guilds full of 80 players all with high ARCs bringing in well over 1 million medals per day. Which allows them to eventually monopolize the huge chunks of the map for basically FREE... as they have NOTHING else to spend those medals on but the occasional expansion that occurs what? Every six months? But the relative cost to siege in AA with medals compared to goods is a non issue in AA as they are practically an unlimited resource, your solutions are way off base.. Rethink this, it isn't rocket science . You are game developers. just do the math and make it work like other maps. You are not even going to have the problem of "Point Farming in AA" if you make it so expensive to do so that no guild leader in their right mind would allow their players to do it. This is the case on ALL the other maps. Just do the same with AA.
 
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DeletedUser40368

Ummm what? lmao why did you post on his behalf .. no point in you both looking silly ;-)

Not on a bad team at all ... but I can tell by the attitude that he just talks and believes every word he says. So Ramen Middle Man ... tell him to read my post again and maybe he might understand it better. Thanks.

Do you have anything to say that would actually add to the discussion? Attacking our character doesn't really make your point more valid.
 

DeletedUser27713

I was so excited about the prospect of the champ farmers losing their inflated points that I am seeing I may not have read everything thoroughly.
Here is my feedback and suggestions on each proposed change:

Additional Recalculation Timers
Probably the biggest change we plan to implement is that we're going to change the daily calculation to a 4-hourly calculation. Within this the Guild Power, Guild Ranking, GvG Support Pool bonus and sector protection will be recalculated. However, Guild Level, HQ relocation and GvG Sector freedom grants will remain on a 24-hour timer. A huge draw of GvG is the camaraderie at reset time when the strategizing and teamwork happens. I agree something has to be done about lag and glitches. What if you had fewer calculation times like every 8 hours or every 12 hours? Many of us have stuck it out in this game because of the people we play with. I think it would be a huge mistake to take that away. I also think that not letting a guild retake a tile they drop for 48 hours might lessen the traffic that happens at calc when people are bubbling beaches to protect their tiles every single night.

With this we hope to improve the issues we have with lag around the recalculations, as well as increase the GvG participation by opening accessibility of the feature not only to those who are available during the recalculation time each day. Don't discount the impact that every new feature you add to the game and each time you have an event running has on bogging down this game.

Removal of Bronze Age Units
We will no longer allow the usage of bronze age units to be used on the All Age Map in GvG. With this, we hope to address the usage of Spear fighters in GvG and push the feature towards a much fairer and competitive experience when battling for a sector. Sounds good.

Reduce Point Farming Profitability
To combat farming ranking points with Champions, once a sector is freed, all units that were placed there will be replaced with random, NPC units of the sector's age. In the All Age Map, the units will be replaced with units from the highest age. I like the end of champs for their inflated points but you also need to make sure people aren't just putting in EMA troops into the AA tiles and getting Space Age back at no cost to them. If they put EMA troops in and then drop the tile to farm then replace with random troops from the lowest era that were placed in that tile.

Confirmation Checkboxes
To improve the overall user experience and enable people to quickly place siege and defensive armies, we'll add a "never see this again" checkbox. This also makes the overall experience more consistent with other aspects of Forge of Empires and gives you the benefit of being able to interact with GvG faster without having to spend time needlessly clicking away message windows. Sounds good.

Camera Focus
Another small tweak we want to make to the user experience is the camera focus. When entering the GvG window, the camera will now automatically be centered on the sector that you last interacted with during your current session. Sounds good.

Bug Fixes
Finally, we plan to address several bug fixes specifically impacting GvG, to improve the quality of the feature. These bugfixes will be detailed in future changelogs. Waiting to hear more about this. First and foremost get the maps to reset/refresh so we can see bubbles up or down and sieges up or down and the siege/defense army boxes orange when a siege is down.
Good idea regarding the replacement of troops. Point farming is a serious problem and most of the large land-holding guilds use little to no strategy other than to protect their candy sectors. Including rogues in a dropped sector also needs to be addressed. If someone adds 1 SAM troops and 7 Rogues, the troops should all be changed to rogues.
 

-Athena-

Active Member
Here is some of my opinions on the proposed GvG changes...


Reduce point farming profitability: With the change you are making, that will now allow people to cook iron troops rather quickly compared to higher eras (as well as low era players making these as well), drop the tiles, and have them automatically convert to Space Troops which will net a large amount of points for people to point farm as usual. Except this is even easier now, as most are using Champs/Rogues currently with a lot of unattached troops they got via Traz because they can't produce them quick enough in their city due to large production times, and now you are allowing people to make iron troops easier and convert to Space anyway. Sure the random space troops aren't as high of value as champs, but they certainly net a lot of points, and Iron barracks take way less space and most will cost the users nothing unattached, increasing the point farming capability. So this change overall will do exactly opposite of what you are trying to accomplish by reducing point farming. There is no reason that i can see, on why any era troop should be upgraded to highest value on the map, helping point farming out upon being dropped. If anything, make any DA's randomized in any era upon being dropped (like 1 SAM, 1 CE, 1 EMA, 1 PME, etc), to where the result is inconsistent and unpredictable to make point farming not viable off it. Making champ values the same as the rest of the SAM troops would be a good start on people champ farming, as there is no reason a Champ should give more points than any other unit anyway. Another suggestion would be if you take an NPC (unclaimed) tile, the points inside the tile give you 1/2 the value, or even 1/4 the value per victory, as you would usually get if it was an actual guild you take the tile from. That way it will have much less value and desire for people to drop/retake their own point farming tiles.

Excellent ideas!!!
 

-Athena-

Active Member
Hey all can we keep this thread focused on feedback and suggestions. I play this game for 2 reasons....my friends and GvG. The fact that Inno is even looking at GvG after ignoring it for years is hopeful. Nothing is set in stone so let's keep offering up ideas. I think they finally realize how passionate many of us are and are open to really hearing us now.
 

lemonwedgie

Well-Known Member
Oh looky, a "well-known member" (aka someone who hangs out in the forum more than they play the game) and two Mods who "liked" her post, are attempting to insult a seasoned GvG player, Aon, who actually knows what he is doing. Choice. lol. Can't say that I am surprised though. Same kind of BS that went on in the last thread.

This thread is for GvG players. You know, people who actually know something about it. Run along now.

Lol ... I am a GvG player. Why are you being so snippy? I've been fighting on the maps every single day since GvG started ... I am a seasoned GvG player.

"Run along now" how cute ...
 

Liberty

Active Member
And this is why I rarely come to the forums ... because the immaturity and b.itchiness is astounding.

You mean like this?

Ummm what? lmao why did you post on his behalf .. no point in you both looking silly ;-)

Not on a bad team at all ... but I can tell by the attitude that he just talks and believes every word he says. So Ramen Middle Man ... tell him to read my post again and maybe he might understand it better. Thanks.
 

DeletedUser37581

So, you take a sector and what once was 24 hour protection is now gone in 4 hours.
The mods are in the process of getting clarification of this. The announcement regarding sector protection could just as easily mean that sectors are protected for about 24 hours, but the check for sector unprotect happens every 4 hours. Under that scenario, a sector taken at 10 am would not be unprotected until about 8 am the following day.

At this point, it isn't certain what the announcement means in that regard, so getting all worked up about it is just a waste.
 

gonsell

New Member
A concern I have iupper age guild building lower age troops and battling in the lower ages.
To me that is unfair in away. Each age must be used by the players from that age only, so
as to make it a lot more fair in battling. This why some players do not do GvG, because of the
upper ages rank, and power that give their troops an advantage. for Example.. only High Middle Age
players can battle on the HMA in that board it would be a lot fairer to all players if they only battle in their
Ages/Era's against others of the same Era/Age they are in..
 

DeletedUser28124

Again, Increase the medal cost per siege to match what it costs on other maps and increase the number of LZ's and do nothing else with AA. Simple.
 

DeletedUser28124

A concern I have iupper age guild building lower age troops and battling in the lower ages.
To me that is unfair in away. Each age must be used by the players from that age only, so
as to make it a lot more fair in battling. This why some players do not do GvG, because of the
upper ages rank, and power that give their troops an advantage. for Example.. only High Middle Age
players can battle on the HMA in that board it would be a lot fairer to all players if they only battle in their
Ages/Era's against others of the same Era/Age they are in..
This is actually a great idea.
 

saknika

Active Member
I'm certainly interested in some of these changes, but have to echo thoughts already posted here.

4hr Re-calcs: I think every 4hrs will be too excessive. Doing every 6hrs, 8hrs, or 12hrs seems to make more sense. Both so guilds can still use some bits of strategy, but also because of the addictive nature of games. Do not discount the fact that people can and do fall victim to addiction without realizing it, and having too many re-calc times could impact a portion of players in that they completely forego real life for the game, until someone in their life intervenes and then you 100% lose that player (and while this is not Inno's fault, if you can avoid/mitigate it, why wouldn't you?). I know this sounds extreme, but I still remember the days of WoW cults. They may still exist, but hopefully not like they used to. Very scary stuff. Having multiple re-calcs is a good idea because of time zones, but you need balance here. Too many and you totally destroy what GvG is good for: strategy and team-building. Too few and you don't resolve the actual issues. So I think no more than 3 or 4 a day is appropriate. 6 is absolutely overkill.

Also on this note, sure you won't be able to move HQ more than once a day, but it won't matter with re-calc being so often. The HQ move becomes irrelevant. So, while I think it's admirable that you want multiple re-calc times, I do think something else has to be put in place to keep the HQ move relevant. Perhaps instead of the sectors losing protection at each re-calc, they have a time-down? So after the first re-calc they can be hit, but the defense is high. In addition, since they're in time-down, you cannot attack from them. IE: If the sector now, after re-calc, would have a 75% bonus to the defending armies, then with the new multi-re-calcs we instead would see that on the first re-calc of the day the sector gets a 175% bonus (so comparable to GE, essentially). At the second one, that drops to a 125% bonus. At the third, 100% bonus, so on and so forth until 24hrs are up, the shield comes down completely, and you're at the standard 75% bonus and thus out of the time-down. The graphic doesn't even have to be that involved, you could just have the little protection shield slowly draining until it's empty and gone (which will also indicate when the 24hrs are up) This way the map stays fluid (as I assume is part of the goal), but allows for some strategy to still be at work AND the HQ move is still important. Heck, it'd even open up for some interesting strategy at timing when to take sectors. ;)

I would have it remain that the HQ move can only be done once every 24hrs, and that dropped sectors cannot be retaken for 24hrs.

Personally, I'm excited at the prospect that this gives to making GvG more competitive, which in turn could add to the excitement. It just needs to be done well.

Point Farming: It definitely makes it more interesting if by dropping a sector the troops are randomized. This will change it so that if you want to do a retake to protect something a little longer, then you can't just fill with rogues and go for it. However, I absolutely agree that on AA it needs to default to the LOWEST era possible, and not the highest. Defaulting to the highest era will only exclude everyone not in that era essentially, but as others have pointed out, allow players to farm points by just filling in with garbage low era troops and dropping it so it becomes high era troops.

AA and Spears: I cannot deny that there was a lot of potential to use AA as a training ground to teach new folks GvG because of this, on the cheap. However, this is one change I can live with. Bronze Age players cannot even play in GvG (you don't unlock it until Iron Age), and so with that in mind I can understand restricting troop age to a minimum of Iron Age. This will actually force some new strategy.

Checkboxes: I like that you won't have to see certain things again, to make sieging faster. On that same logic, can we please remove the menu to enter a sector when it is under siege, and make it so any sector you're sieging acts like an NPC sector under siege? By this I mean that you just automatically pop open the battle screen to select troops, instead of having to open a menu, and select the battle function. When I'm trying to take a sector I honestly do not care about the guild profile of the one who owns it or similar. Similarly, if a sector I own is under siege, please just let me click on the sector and have it open to my troop selection. You can't move HQ or release a sector that's under attack anyways, no need for the menu options.

That's all that comes to mind right off. I look forward to seeing what bugs are going to be fixed, since that is mentioned. If I think of anything else, I'll gladly share it. I love GvG, so I'm happy to see some attention being paid to it. I just hope that this truly improves GvG. :)
 

DeletedUser27322

i like to change with the times but this 4 hour reset thing is going to make gvg absolutely insane...

the demand for units will literally quadruple. is inno planning on releasing another Alcatraz-like building because itll be needed i think.

also is there any possibility that we could allow for item and unit transfers between worlds?
 
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