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Algona

Well-Known Member
The global ranking system that currently exists in the game gives GE players, GE guilds, and especially mobile players, no way to directly affect their guilds position on the global rankings.
Individual and Guild performance in GE do effect Guild Prestige.

More Crowns from GE gives more Guild Power. More Guild Power means higher Guild Level. Higher Guild Level means more Prestige.

GEC awards Guild Power resulting ultimately in more Prestige.

GEC is cross world, making it a poor measure of a Guild's strength since Prestige Rewards are based on a Guild's position in it's own world.

i personally think GE records is actually a better indicator of a good guild
If that's how you want to define it.

GE: Hey we need some goods in the Treasury. Now everyone go out and attack or negotiate on your own schedule. Every little bit helps, you have 6 days to work through as many as you can of 64 env=counters. Don't worry if you miss an Encounter first time, you get another shot. And don;t forget all the free stuff you get! andf the thousands of Power we earn each day.

GvG: hey we need some goods in Treasury. Do we need to counterattack any lost sectors? Have we picked a target that does not cause us diplomatic problems? Is it strategically desirable? Everyone needs troops of this Era. We need to coordinate attack times. We'll need someone to put and replace Siege armies. We need attackers. We need defending armies. If we win, that 60 Power will be protected until recalc. We'll also need a watch to see if we are counterattacked. If we lose, well, a bunch of time troops and goods wasted for no return.

My opinion: GvG holdings should count a lot towards evaluating Guilds. Acquiring and holding a large GvG empire in multiple Provinces is the most difficult and complex aspect of thie game in both concept and implementation. It's also the only way Guilds can fight against each other.
 
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Stephen Longshanks

My opinion: GvG holdings should count a lot towards evaluating Guilds. Acquiring and holding a large GvG empire in multiple Provinces is the most difficult and complex aspect of thie game in both concept and implementation.
And it already does count a lot more toward Guild ranking. Of course, only PC players can participate, so you're cutting out a large % of players/guilds. And large guilds conspire against those outside their alliances, so smaller/newer guilds have little chance of making much headway in GvG. (I've experienced this firsthand.) And guilds with large holdings use their behind-the-lines sectors for PvP point farming, so that's a kind of double-dipping that the rest of us, especially the mobile players, aren't privy to. So, all in all I think GvG guilds have little room to complain about how much GvG counts toward guild/personal rankings. And because of that, I think players that complain about GvG lag, and AF/OF Treasury goods issues are due very little sympathy. In my humble opinion. :D
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
And it already does count a lot more toward Guild ranking. Of course, only PC players can participate, so you're cutting out a large % of players/guilds. And large guilds conspire against those outside their alliances, so smaller/newer guilds have little chance of making much headway in GvG. (I've experienced this firsthand.) And guilds with large holdings use their behind-the-lines sectors for PvP point farming, so that's a kind of double-dipping that the rest of us, especially the mobile players, aren't privy to. So, all in all I think GvG guilds have little room to complain about how much GvG counts toward guild/personal rankings. And because of that, I think players that complain about GvG lag, and AF/OF Treasury goods issues are due very little sympathy. In my humble opinion. :D
Right, GvG already does count and makes the difference between also rans, like my Guild, ranked 27 or so and the top 10 Guilds.

Agreed with the rest as well.
 

DeletedUser26965

playing in GE and GvG guilds, i personally think GE records is actually a better indicator of a good guild, because it actually takes active/equal effort from the entire guild. people working together, playing together, to consistently achieve.
not just 1 person doing lots of fighting
I think you need to rethink this unless you think you can solo guild your way to the top guild rank.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
empireforger,.you;re making good points.

I agree, a Guild can add a lot of Prestige quickly by taking sectors,

They can lose those sectors just as quickly.

.Prestige won through GE Power can't be taken away.

However you've convinced me that it's a fine idea to look at the ramifications of Direct Prestige for what?

GE Championships?

Maybe GE Crown levels reached? 1 Prestige for each Crown level?

all other things being equal; level of guild, amount of GvG land holdings, etc... currently a 45-0-0 GE guild and a 0-0-0 GE guild would be tied in the rankings.
I don't think it can happen becasue the 45 GEC win Guild has won hundreds pf thousands more Power then the 0 GEC win Guild.

My Guild (Go Dogstar Demons!) is lvl 33 ranked 27th on MK. We earn around 20K Power a week from GE before GEC. The million points we've earned froM GE has us 3 levels ahead of where we would be without GE.

You're right. its hardly a significant amount of Prestige. Ay least to my Guild. Might be for lower level Guilds?
 

DeletedUser26965

solo guilds are not allowed to earn medals. must be 3 or more players... so a medal is almost always an indication of some sort of cooperative team effort.
as mentioned in my example, currently climbing the rank does not require a 'guild'. it just takes one person to form a guild and do a lot of fighting.
I'm gonna guess you meant Trophies there not medals. What I replied to there was your characterization of GvG by saying "not just 1 person doing lots of fighting" and that's kind of the problem I have with much of what you're saying, I think your overstating GE while at the same time understating GvG.
all it takes to climb the current global ranking that primarily use the GvG map, is 1 or more strong active fighters , with any number of Remora's that tag along for the ride
While true you need GvG to rise in the rank above what guild level can provide that kind of statement also carries with it a mischaracterization of GvG. So I invite you to go form your own GvG guild, lead it, see how "easy" it is and in a year I want to see how much of an impact you make on the GvG maps and see your guild rank then tell me if what you said there you would say again after that.

In all fairness I characterize GE as all it is is comparing score with other guilds, so it seems we both have a bias. And for further disclosure I'm doing this now on Xyr and I can tell you one thing for certain, if all it takes is one or a couple fighters then send them my way because I can certainly use em, too many mobile only players in the game as it is already, we're currently ranked 14th, lvl 14 guild.
 

DeletedUser26965

i understand to be an elite GvG guild in the top 10 it takes a team effort. didn't mean to downplay or minimize that. apologies.
And perhaps I can learn not to minimize GE as well, I just don't feel it provides the same group effort and dynamics that GvG does, frankly I find GE rather dissatisfying and boring when comparing the two as it pertains to competition. GvG feels like a monumental war effort spanning over years that takes constant vigilance whereas GE feels sort of like you say, a weekly bowling tournament. I think maybe they should add a category on the ranking board for GE.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
the guild power/level could be balanced out by hall of fames/bazzars
Sure. But you said :

all other things being equal; level of guild, amount of GvG land holdings, etc...
Meanwhile on the main topic...

What do you think would be a reasonable amount of Prestige for a Guild to gain from GE and what would they have to do to earn it?

Having slept on it, I'm sorta liking the 1 Prestige per Crown level idea.

Should there be a Prestigerewardd for players completing through Encounter 48 or 64? How much? Seems like a Guild could earn a lot that way? Maybe not?

What other ways can a Guild earn Prestige through GE?
 
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Stephen Longshanks

And perhaps I can learn not to minimize GE as well, I just don't feel it provides the same group effort and dynamics that GvG does, frankly I find GE rather dissatisfying and boring when comparing the two as it pertains to competition. GvG feels like a monumental war effort spanning over years that takes constant vigilance whereas GE feels sort of like you say, a weekly bowling tournament. I think maybe they should add a category on the ranking board for GE.
I think the point he was trying to make about GE vs GvG in regards to group effort (or at least what I would mean if I had said it) is that you can have 1/4 of a GvG guild not really contributing much and still be fairly successful, but not with a GE guild. Even 10% not committed to it can drag the whole guild down in GE championships.
 

DeletedUser27849

As I do understand your question, let's see if I can give a different spin.

Does it really matter as to where you are ranked in global as there is no reward for it. I know for some guilds it is a pride thing, however if your a guild that doesn't participate in GVG does it really matter. Now if the ranking meant that the guild would receive a reward at the end of the week then that is something completely different. Actually I think it would make it a lot more interesting for the game. But like others have stated, one day you could be ranked 3rd the next 20th just depends on much others are attacking you. But if your ranked 175 again does it really mean anything. I know some players the where a guild completes in the Ge each week is more important than where they ranked.
 

DeletedUser26965

I think the point he was trying to make about GE vs GvG in regards to group effort (or at least what I would mean if I had said it) is that you can have 1/4 of a GvG guild not really contributing much and still be fairly successful, but not with a GE guild. Even 10% not committed to it can drag the whole guild down in GE championships.
That's a much fairer characterization however to the larger question, which I think is does GE deserve Prestige, the nature of contribution from members is vastly different, all members of a guild can individually negotiate there way through GE, GvG just aint that simple even with good fighters and all of GvG can be lost, you can't go back and take away GE scores, I think these are just a couple of the points that can be made why it shouldn't but I do think it deserves to be on a leadership board, just not the Prestige one. But then this begs the question, what else should lend itself to either Prestige or some other leaderboard?
 

DeletedUser27849

I think the point he was trying to make about GE vs GvG in regards to group effort (or at least what I would mean if I had said it) is that you can have 1/4 of a GvG guild not really contributing much and still be fairly successful, but not with a GE guild. Even 10% not committed to it can drag the whole guild down in GE championships.
That is understandable, however I could also argue, if you are a founder/leader of a guild you have the power to determine who is in your guild. So if that is important to you as a guild of the completion rate of your members, just boot the ones that have no type of commitment and keep the ones that do.

In the 2 worlds I am in, I have 1 that I am just a member and we struggle weekly to get some of the members to even do GE, but the leaders take no action or are slow at taking action about it. However we are very heavy in GVG so it keeps us usually in the top ten of rankings.
Now in my 2nd city where I am 1 of the founders we have a tighter hold on things, we only allow players join our guild who is going to help the guild. We usually finish 1st or 2nd in GE and the minimum requirement is 16 encounters and we open Level 4 each week. But we are also heavy on the GVG map and steadily have moved up the rankings.

I use to be in a smaller guild in my 1st city where typically we finished 1st each week in GE but didn't do GVG. Ranking was not important to us as it has no value to the guild where we were. What was more important was our finish in GE has we hoped it attracted other established players.
 

DeletedUser14228

I wholeheartedly support assigning a small amount of prestige to GE cups. Too many players are mobile only these days so the world rankings are not really reflect of quality guilds and members. They are more reflective of who still uses a PC. And that crowd is getting smaller and smaller as we move on into the future.
 

DeletedUser26965

as indicated in my example; 1 person can climb higher in the global ranks by them selves (in a few weeks theoretically) than 80 mobile/GE players could if they played together for 50 years, went 2600-0-0 in GE and spent $1,000,000,000.00 each
(i dont think people should be able to buy their rank. but Cpu players currently can, so i am just illustrating that double standard.)
if 1 person can do it by themselves ...than 2 people in a guild can each do it by themselves, just play GvG in different ages and mind their own business, or on different parts of the same map (stay of my side! :) i go north you go south!)
3 people, etc.


i agree with these points entirely. i would imagine the devs considered this as well.
i think it should be a very small amount that would not have and major impact on the current rankings. but of course any change would be entirely up to the devs
prestige earned from leveling is a small token amount to indicate/reward longevity in the game, longevity is an indicator of a good guild cause it likely has experienced/knowledgeable players.
i think GE prestige should be similar to leveling prestige. just be a small token amount to indicate continued success over a long period of time, that is achieved in a game measured competition.


GvG is a avenue in the game through which guilds are allowed to directly compete and see which one is better. the game records and measures and ranks guilds accordingly
GE is also a avenue through the game which guilds directly compete to see which one is better. the game records and measures.
i dont know any other area's of direct measured competition.
I agree that GE should be recognized in some way, and it is through trophy count, but I just don't know if it should be applied to Prestige, perhaps like I mentioned it should have a separate leaders-board tab. Which guild has the most battles or combined member points like mentioned on this site here http://foestats.com/us/us1/?server=us1&world=Arvahall I think in a way expresses prestige properly defined.
 

Stephen Longshanks

The trouble with going by GE record is that the competition varies greatly from week to week. Theoretically, you could always get easy matchups and go 45-0-0 with only doing 20 or 30% a week. Or, you could go for weeks without cracking the top 3 even though you hit 80% or more every week. Theoretically.

My guild on Vingrid lost one week when we hit over 100%. This week, we could win with about 25%. I think the best suggestion from this thread is to give a little Prestige for every "Crown". I interpret this to mean for every level of expedition points reached, in addition to the Guild Power Points, you would get 1 or more Prestige points.