GoldenGoose
New Member
In one of the end of year announcements, it was mentioned that Great Building changes are in the works for this year. While I have thus far been impressed with the Forge of Empires dev team, I would like to make a plea to Inno to PLEASE learn from your past mistakes and do not repeat the Ancient Wonder disaster that was the downfall of your other city building game, Elvenar!
Prior to starting FOE over a year ago, I played Elvenar for about 8 years (nearly since the beginning). The two games are different, but they share many of the same mechanics such as Elvenar's Ancient Wonders (AWs) being effectively identical to FOE's Great Buildings (GBs). It was an amazing game (for years, I touted it as the best game on the app store) and the dev team had a great track record of listening to the community for a long time. That was until the end, when there was a period of several months where completely unnecessary changes began to be made (changing the names of the game chapters for the first time in 8 years, for example). This period of time ultimately culminated in the Ancient Wonder debacle that fundamentally altered the way many AWs worked and even changed the in-game stats that many of them affected. It also added additional requirements to upgrade the AWs. Every level upgrade now required a large amount rare, difficult to obtain, items. Prior to this update, only the Ancient Wonders of the newest chapters required these rare items, and the rest were easy to upgrade (the same as how FOE is now).
Inno stated their reasoning was to make the upgrade process the same across the board. They claimed this would streamline and simplify GBs as a concept for newer players, AND that "the data showed" that the speed in which players upgrade their Ancient Wonders would remain the same after the update as it was before. Inno also stated that several streamers corroborated these findings when they parsed the data that Inno provided them.
The Discord Feedback thread for the upcoming AW changes, which had nearly 5000 comments from concerned players was effectively ignored by the developers, and any follow up announcements from Inno about the proposed changes ended up being vague or on a number of occasions, arguably, outright lies in an attempt to calm down the community. While the number of rare items required for high level AWs was very high prior tonthe changes (similar to FOE's goods requirements), and the changes reduced this number, Inno used this reduction as a tool to convince players that ALL of the proposed changes were okay, instead of simply admitting the goods requirements for those specific AWs were too high, and reducing them separately from any other changes.
But, what ACTUALLY happened after these changes went live?
The changes fundamentally altered the way many of the AWs worked, completely reworking them to make many of them that were previously very useful when used correctly now functionally useless with the new, slower pace of the game. Any increases in power that they added to the AWs were offset by how slow the upgrade process became. The new upgrade requirements effectively HALTED AW upgrading across the board for newer players, and when veteran players ran out of the rare resources they had saved up over the years, they too, could not upgrade nearly as often. Prior to the changes, it took the average player years to achieve the max level of AW (it was claimed that some fringe players could do it in a week). After the changes, maxing out a GB was effectively off the board of things you could do.
These changes had other effects, as well. Prior to them, the game had several play styles in which you could build your city differently. You could negotiate only, fight only, or a hybrid of the two, which was most common. There was also a fun and complex style in which a player could utilize the synergistic properties of MANY high level Ancient Wonders to gather the goods and resources needed to progress in the game instead of going the traditional route of using normal buildings to achieve the same effects. After the changes, new players were effectively railroaded into playing a hybrid city, since any other method was significantly more difficult without the ability to gain high level AWs.
Also, the day after these changes went live, Elvenar had an in-game real money "deal" for the rare items needed to upgrade GBs. Talk about insult to injury!
These changes fundamentally ruined the game for veteran players such as myself and new players alike. Ancient Wonders are a core mechanic of Elvenar that the entire city building game leveraged. By fundamentally changing a core part of the game, Inno caused widespread changes to the way that all players (except those that spent a lot of money) were forced to play the game, and made the entire experience of the game that much less fun. Without the ability to utilize the power of Ancient Wonders, building a city became cumbersome. Running out of space is a fundemental aspect/issue in every city building game, but it became MUCH easier since it was more difficult to upgrade AWs to provide the necessary resources to compensate for other buildings. Due to these changes, a large number of players not only quit the game, but we saw the hidden side of Inno Games that makes us wary to play ANY games created by them. I no longer recommend anyone else play Elvenar like I had for the last 8 years when anyone asked for recommendations on mobile games, and if the FOE team makes similar changes, I can guarantee that I, and many other players, will simply quit playing games developed by Inno altogether.
What can Inno do to avoid this?
Please do not use the Elvenar changes as a template for future FOE changes despite the similarities between the games. It is okay that high level Great Buildings require goods, but low level ones do not. It is okay that players can easily level their GBs quickly, and in fringe cases, much faster than the other players. You can add an extra layer of depth to FOE that we currently don't have if you take the time to do the changes CORRECTLY! But please do not take away any functionality that we currently have or fundamentally alter a core aspect of the game such as GBs.
If FOE can do these changes correctly, without defaulting to changes that may simply result in more money for the company by making upgrading more difficult, I will gladly support Inno with my money and become a regular paying player. I have seen what Inno is capable of, but I have also seen their capacity to make amazing games, and I WOULD LOVE to support the latter.
So my plea to you, Inno:
PLEASE do not use the Elvenar changes as a template for any future Forge of Empire Great Building changes, and PLEASE be open and transparent with the FOE community regarding these changes. You lost the trust of myself and thousands of other players in Elvenar by how you handled the previous AW changes. I am wary, but hopeful of upcoming changes you will make in Forge of Empire. If you can do this correctly, you will regain my trust in your ability to continue making amazing games in 2025 and beyond, and I will happily support you in this endeavor for years to come!
Prior to starting FOE over a year ago, I played Elvenar for about 8 years (nearly since the beginning). The two games are different, but they share many of the same mechanics such as Elvenar's Ancient Wonders (AWs) being effectively identical to FOE's Great Buildings (GBs). It was an amazing game (for years, I touted it as the best game on the app store) and the dev team had a great track record of listening to the community for a long time. That was until the end, when there was a period of several months where completely unnecessary changes began to be made (changing the names of the game chapters for the first time in 8 years, for example). This period of time ultimately culminated in the Ancient Wonder debacle that fundamentally altered the way many AWs worked and even changed the in-game stats that many of them affected. It also added additional requirements to upgrade the AWs. Every level upgrade now required a large amount rare, difficult to obtain, items. Prior to this update, only the Ancient Wonders of the newest chapters required these rare items, and the rest were easy to upgrade (the same as how FOE is now).
Inno stated their reasoning was to make the upgrade process the same across the board. They claimed this would streamline and simplify GBs as a concept for newer players, AND that "the data showed" that the speed in which players upgrade their Ancient Wonders would remain the same after the update as it was before. Inno also stated that several streamers corroborated these findings when they parsed the data that Inno provided them.
The Discord Feedback thread for the upcoming AW changes, which had nearly 5000 comments from concerned players was effectively ignored by the developers, and any follow up announcements from Inno about the proposed changes ended up being vague or on a number of occasions, arguably, outright lies in an attempt to calm down the community. While the number of rare items required for high level AWs was very high prior tonthe changes (similar to FOE's goods requirements), and the changes reduced this number, Inno used this reduction as a tool to convince players that ALL of the proposed changes were okay, instead of simply admitting the goods requirements for those specific AWs were too high, and reducing them separately from any other changes.
But, what ACTUALLY happened after these changes went live?
The changes fundamentally altered the way many of the AWs worked, completely reworking them to make many of them that were previously very useful when used correctly now functionally useless with the new, slower pace of the game. Any increases in power that they added to the AWs were offset by how slow the upgrade process became. The new upgrade requirements effectively HALTED AW upgrading across the board for newer players, and when veteran players ran out of the rare resources they had saved up over the years, they too, could not upgrade nearly as often. Prior to the changes, it took the average player years to achieve the max level of AW (it was claimed that some fringe players could do it in a week). After the changes, maxing out a GB was effectively off the board of things you could do.
These changes had other effects, as well. Prior to them, the game had several play styles in which you could build your city differently. You could negotiate only, fight only, or a hybrid of the two, which was most common. There was also a fun and complex style in which a player could utilize the synergistic properties of MANY high level Ancient Wonders to gather the goods and resources needed to progress in the game instead of going the traditional route of using normal buildings to achieve the same effects. After the changes, new players were effectively railroaded into playing a hybrid city, since any other method was significantly more difficult without the ability to gain high level AWs.
Also, the day after these changes went live, Elvenar had an in-game real money "deal" for the rare items needed to upgrade GBs. Talk about insult to injury!
These changes fundamentally ruined the game for veteran players such as myself and new players alike. Ancient Wonders are a core mechanic of Elvenar that the entire city building game leveraged. By fundamentally changing a core part of the game, Inno caused widespread changes to the way that all players (except those that spent a lot of money) were forced to play the game, and made the entire experience of the game that much less fun. Without the ability to utilize the power of Ancient Wonders, building a city became cumbersome. Running out of space is a fundemental aspect/issue in every city building game, but it became MUCH easier since it was more difficult to upgrade AWs to provide the necessary resources to compensate for other buildings. Due to these changes, a large number of players not only quit the game, but we saw the hidden side of Inno Games that makes us wary to play ANY games created by them. I no longer recommend anyone else play Elvenar like I had for the last 8 years when anyone asked for recommendations on mobile games, and if the FOE team makes similar changes, I can guarantee that I, and many other players, will simply quit playing games developed by Inno altogether.
What can Inno do to avoid this?
Please do not use the Elvenar changes as a template for future FOE changes despite the similarities between the games. It is okay that high level Great Buildings require goods, but low level ones do not. It is okay that players can easily level their GBs quickly, and in fringe cases, much faster than the other players. You can add an extra layer of depth to FOE that we currently don't have if you take the time to do the changes CORRECTLY! But please do not take away any functionality that we currently have or fundamentally alter a core aspect of the game such as GBs.
If FOE can do these changes correctly, without defaulting to changes that may simply result in more money for the company by making upgrading more difficult, I will gladly support Inno with my money and become a regular paying player. I have seen what Inno is capable of, but I have also seen their capacity to make amazing games, and I WOULD LOVE to support the latter.
So my plea to you, Inno:
PLEASE do not use the Elvenar changes as a template for any future Forge of Empire Great Building changes, and PLEASE be open and transparent with the FOE community regarding these changes. You lost the trust of myself and thousands of other players in Elvenar by how you handled the previous AW changes. I am wary, but hopeful of upcoming changes you will make in Forge of Empire. If you can do this correctly, you will regain my trust in your ability to continue making amazing games in 2025 and beyond, and I will happily support you in this endeavor for years to come!
