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A Plea to Inno Regarding Future GB changes

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
I just realized that the cosmic catalyst requires dark matter, but the warship doesn't. Why is that?
Because.

No better reason.

One might speculate that they did want one of them to be level-able without going to SASH so that others would want to trade for SASH goods. But that they could get away with one of them requiring you to move up too to encourage people to advance.

But that might be giving them too much credit for planning ahead ;)
 

Mor-Rioghain

Well-Known Member
No. It costs diamonds which will require saving. Not having diamond mines might mean you have to be a highly active GBG player and more selective (without money), but it doesn't mean you'll never be able to make enough to pick an event to really go for. Maybe once or twice a year you can go "I must have this gold league building!" and break out what you saved up to that point.

GBG: 45 diamonds every ~210 fights on average. If you can manage say 100 attrition = 500 fights a day, that's 6000 fights a season for ~1260 diamonds every 2 weeks.

It typically takes 10-20k diamonds (plus playing the event well) to get a gold league. Which should allow you to go for gold about twice a year.
This kind of thinking really started when players began to believe that the 'gold level' was a fully leveled building. Inno never said it was; it was a player's concenception from the start. This just make me think of 'birds in hands vs birds in bush.' You can get a fully-leveled EB without spending a single penny of real money or one unit of premium currency. If you want silver or gold tier toppers, that's an entirely different building.
 

Mor-Rioghain

Well-Known Member
I just realized that the cosmic catalyst requires dark matter, but the warship doesn't. Why is that?
My guess would be because it produces FPs along with the Crit Hit boosts. It's as good a guess that it's because it's smaller, LOL. Just seems like whenvever FPs are involved, difficulty levels rise.
 

honey55

Well-Known Member
This kind of thinking really started when players began to believe that the 'gold level' was a fully leveled building. Inno never said it was; it was a player's concenception from the start. This just make me think of 'birds in hands vs birds in bush.' You can get a fully-leveled EB without spending a single penny of real money or one unit of premium currency. If you want silver or gold tier toppers, that's an entirely different building.
They just added gold levels so they could say you can get the total building. I doubt most buildings are even worth placing without the gold level. However so far the gold level has always been accessible with out spending. However if it isn't ever. In my view theyve gone back on their word. Simply making the top level now called gold level instead of the next number didn't change anything except terminology. We used to get the top level from every event without waiting. It had a number. There was no gold. But now we get it weeks later or use FSPs to get it faster.
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
They just added gold levels so they could say you can get the total building. I doubt most buildings are even worth placing without the gold level. However so far the gold level has always been accessible with out spending. However if it isn't ever. In my view theyve gone back on their word. Simply making the top level now called gold level instead of the next number didn't change anything except terminology. We used to get the top level from every event without waiting. It had a number. There was no gold. But now we get it weeks later or use FSPs to get it faster.
They did make one building worth placing without the gold level: Yukitomo Tower. Some people did squawk about that one "not being good enough" because it was just QI stats, a few rogues, and some self-aid kits gained from the silver/gold levels. But that's the sort of building they'd have to make regularly if gold levels were to be treated as "optional".
 

honey55

Well-Known Member
They did make one building worth placing without the gold level: Yukitomo Tower. Some people did squawk about that one "not being good enough" because it was just QI stats, a few rogues, and some self-aid kits gained from the silver/gold levels. But that's the sort of building they'd have to make regularly if gold levels were to be treated as "optional".
Doesn't only the gold level house the ally? I think they'd need to change that if not

Just checked level 10 does.

From what i see that is different from the coaster and the shrine. I only see the slot for the ally on the gold level. Perhaps they changed it since you can't produce the silver and gold frags
 
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xivarmy

Well-Known Member
Doesn't only the gold level house the ally? I think they'd need to change that if not
Not on Yukitomo. Yukitomo was made different because they decided to put the QI stats on it. And don't want the league building mass producing QI stats. As such, the regular level has all the basic features, including the room for the dork. And gold is only slightly better, other than carrying QI stats - but can't be made by the roastery or the crystal cascade.

1739128097879.png
 

honey55

Well-Known Member
I guess i figured it out white you were posting.

I forgot about the QI stats. Not to sure I'd feel i got the complete event building if i didn't get that too.
 

Sharmon the Impaler

Well-Known Member
complete.JPG

The most valuable thing are the QI stats.
Enchanted Elixers = 5 X 50 Action Points
Yaga's Roost = 12 X 50
Serene Bear Mountain = 7 X 200
Yukitomomo Empires = 11 X 200
4,450 Action points per hour or 106,800 per day not counting the settlement city so it's like getting an extra full shard purchase a day free.
 

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
One more GB ready to dump is Himeji Castle. I used to say keep it for the Supplies and the rewards are extra. Well. not there are a lot of event building that give more supplies and FP and big Boosts. (One 3x3 size Earth Eden in SASH aided is 1.45 million Supplies. plus a pile of boost. and on average four of them more Fps that the rewards and supplies from HC even at level 100
 

Dominator - X

Well-Known Member
One more GB ready to dump is Himeji Castle. I used to say keep it for the Supplies and the rewards are extra. Well. not there are a lot of event building that give more supplies and FP and big Boosts. (One 3x3 size Earth Eden in SASH aided is 1.45 million Supplies. plus a pile of boost. and on average four of them more Fps that the rewards and supplies from HC even at level 100
Not to mention that the Momi Shrine in SAAB gives over 3 million, aided with good boost numbers.
 

GoldenGoose

New Member
Coming back to the original post:

I've played a little Elvenar the last few days. I'm still a ways away from wonders, but that's fair enough - previous stints years ago I never got around to building a single wonder after a much longer time. It is much more polished than previous attempts at playing it. Most notably the bug that persisted for years where manual fights would have invisible units and/or lock up if i did more than a couple without reloading seems to be gone. But also just in general the early chapters seem to flow more naturally. I think they reduced the cost of a lot of early levels of buildings. I also noticed the event pass only cost diamonds instead of $ directly which I'd appreciate in FoE (they had it like that at the start of the pass but moved away from it). Though they do also have a season pass there that's $-only like all the FoE passes.

I've started to look into the wonder system though. And reading a lot of people's rants about the changes a year or so ago - which largely reading what they were seemed to have pivoted a lot of useless wonders into usable wonders; and a few OP wonders that some people relied on into balanced wonders requiring them to pivot (or scream bloody murder).

I understand that your main concern with the system was the odd bits and pieces needed to unlock levels. It's a bit early for me to comment on that as some of the bits I can't even make yet to get a sense of how hard that'll be for a new city (wonders don't even unlock til chapter 4 now so not worried about that yet - we'll see if i last that long). But from what I can tell from commentary it essentially comes down to "to unlock levels you have to engage in all the other features to get shards of a bunch of different things". The equivalent being something like each level costing some antique-dealer currency (disenchanting trash = selling trash to antique dealer), some shards specifically for the feature, and every now and then reno kit(s). I can't say that something akin to that would traumatize me - unless a core piece winds up tied strongly to neo-GvG :p Though it would be a bit of an odd "fit" in FoE (FoE GBs have always been a little more runaway crazy than Elvenar wonders which often seemed more like a project to keep the biggest players busy doing something).

Also FoE has a lot more FP proliferation than Elvenar's KP which has been kept largely in check - a max level wonder giving 7! KP lol. And the main event building just making 1 KP + some troops at max level (which is basically an ascended level that you have to spend to keep up; without ascending it doesn't make any KP). Overall I'd say the game's been held into a much healthier space than FoE has, as long as its players are still having fun. Years behind FoE in the race to the grave.
Hehe. Pretty much all of these improvements and were completed prior to the AW changes. I agree that they made the new player experience more streamlined over the years.

Firstly, the biggest issue was how long it takes to upgrade AWs for the average player now, compared to previously. This alone makes a number of the new AW effects relatively useless. The secondary issue was how they changed the AWs. That said, I also disagree with a large number of people's take that the changes made to "useless" AWs made them useful. What many people failed to realize for years (and even myself for several years) was just how useful some of them could be. The community generally disregarded a number of AWs as useless, despite them arguably being some of the most powerful if used correctly. Even some of the most complained about AWs were arguably the most useful if anyone had used them how old Inno likely intended for them to be used. I was in the process of reviewing all of the AWs, and was writing reviews on how each one could be used to its maximum effect, plus what other AWs synergized with them to increase their effect. Like I had mentioned, there used to be a much deeper style of gameplay that was possible using the synergized effects of the AWs. This style was neutered when the changed to the upgrade process occurred (the costs ramp up significantly as you upgrade, and then you multiply this by the number of AWs in your city. Having a variety of higher level AWs used for this style of gameplay are not feasible any more. Anyone that does currently have them, likely had a lot of levels prior to the changes (or a lot of upgrade components saved).
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
The two games are different, but they share many of the same mechanics such as Elvenar's Ancient Wonders (AWs) being effectively identical to FOE's Great Buildings (GBs). [...] This period of time ultimately culminated in the Ancient Wonder debacle that fundamentally altered the way many AWs worked and even changed the in-game stats that many of them affected. It also added additional requirements to upgrade the AWs

That reminds me. Rise of Cultures also changed their Great Buildings system prior to Elvenar changing theirs. Couldn't understand the new interface on Rise of Cultures so stopped playing

Hopefully whatever they do for Forge of Empires will be player friendly
 
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