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Stephen Longshanks

Ok I'll make it more clear for those who aren't able to follow along.
You must be talking to yourself, since I already answered this question:
How in the world did I contradict myself?
And you apparently weren't able to follow along.
Ranking points + GB levels is equivalent to judging a book by it's cover
Which we have been told not to do since books have had covers.
There's a reason humans are programmed to do this. It's EXTREMELY efficient.
No, not efficient. Quick, maybe, but not efficient. Another idiom might clear this up for you. "Look before you leap." But you go ahead. Leap before you look. Let me know how that works out for you.
You see a dark abject running toward you, you do the quick math and GTFO.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume you weren't being racist.
Hypothetical: ALL the information I can see is ranking points + GB levels, and Player One has 5M points and level 80 of a couple things. Other has100k and some level 3s.

Which player is "better." Of course I'd wager you 50/50 the first player is! Now we learn first player spent 100k and has played every day for 3 years, 2nd player started a month ago. Now we have more information, so possibly I change my vote.
Possibly? Not definitely? Really? If Player One has played every day for 3 years and spent 100k, then he is a horrible player if he only has 5M points. I know that for a fact because I've been playing 3 years, pretty much every day and haven't spent anywhere near 100k, and on the world that's been my main for most of that time I have well over 10M points. And that's with being in a tiny, sometimes solo guild for over 2/3 of that time. And the other player has 100k points and some level 3 GBs after only a month? Possibly my foot. (Besides all that, you would have the ability to look at their cities and that would probably help in an initial determination. Just sayin'.) Hopefully you were able to follow all that. :)
 

DeletedUser31498

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume you weren't being racist.
Correct! I meant: "object running in the dark"

Possibly? Not definitely?
And that is the point of "judging a book by it's cover." Again, if you're presented with two randomly selected players and shown their ranking points + GB levels, would you not bet 50/50 the higher score is "better"?

Again, I'm asking you GIVEN THIS LIMITED INFORMATION, do you think you're greater than 50% to be right? If you truly, honestly think you gain ZERO information from those two stats, then I'll concede.
 

Ta 152H

Active Member
Correct! I meant: "object running in the dark"



And that is the point of "judging a book by it's cover." Again, if you're presented with two randomly selected players and shown their ranking points + GB levels, would you not bet 50/50 the higher score is "better"?

Again, I'm asking you GIVEN THIS LIMITED INFORMATION, do you think you're greater than 50% to be right? If you truly, honestly think you gain ZERO information from those two stats, then I'll concede.
You can get some information from ranking points, but it's often conflicting. GB Levels have to be viewed positively, outside of any other context, I think they are a better gauge, but there are so many other circumstances that negate coming to a judgment based just on that, I would say it's probably better not to, as they are typically more salient.

Ranking points are almost useless to use as a determination, but it does give people a simple number to fixate on, so they do. For example, on Z, I made a city with the intention of maximizing my long term prospects, rather than go for short term goals. My score is lower for now, for the simple reason I do not care about it, but I collected a lot of important things in Iron Age that can not be accumulated later. This includes the lowest population Terrace Farms currently available in the game. Several Champ retreats so I can keep one for each age if GvG ever improves. Lots of forge points for being able to complete L4 GE easily, and lots of levels on the GBs that will help me a lot down the road. I'll stay in EMA until I get four Terrace Farms as well, plus can reach L20 on my Hagia, etc ...

Also, some people just bang away mindlessly at GvG to collect points. Does that make them a good player when it accomplishes nothing? Does racing through the ages make for a good player, while leaving a weak foundation and passing on opportunities in lower ages?

Then we factor in things like time and money spent.

So, I think we all agree that points are a really weak, and often counter indicator to skill. It might mean the player is very skilled, or it might mean they did not take a more skillful approach and will pay further down the road. It might also mean they are mindlessly attacking sectors in the game without a real reason to, besides points.

GB levels are always positive, as noted above, but the circumstances surrounding how this was possible make even this a tenuous assertion of superiority. If you're willing to ignore everything else, which is like watching one baseball game (without knowing anything else) and then determining which team is better, then you can assert the player with more GB levels is better. But, it's a very weak principle to base it on, but I suppose it will at least give a very, very weak indicator. Even so, I'd never want to use it as one, as it's just too weak.

Looking at a city, although still by no means conclusive, I think is a better indicator than either.
 

Stephen Longshanks

And that is the point of "judging a book by it's cover." Again, if you're presented with two randomly selected players and shown their ranking points + GB levels, would you not bet 50/50 the higher score is "better"?

Again, I'm asking you GIVEN THIS LIMITED INFORMATION, do you think you're greater than 50% to be right? If you truly, honestly think you gain ZERO information from those two stats, then I'll concede.
Honestly, I do not make a judgement on a player's ability or game knowledge based on their ranking points. After 3 years of playing, I've seen too many examples of people who have a lot of points, but not much clue as to the ins and outs of playing the game. I also know, after those 3 years, that a player could have low points and low level GBs for many reasons unrelated to their game knowledge or ability. So not only do I think I gain zero reliable information from those two stats, I know from experience that I don't. Not without investigating further.

Incidentally, the reason I said, "Possibly? Not definitely?" is because in your example if you make the assumption of who is the better player based solely on points/GB levels and then find out the real scoop, to say you would possibly change your assessment seems rather odd. Given the extra information, you would most definitely change your view, and that actually reinforces my point, not yours. :)
 

Cycloppps

New Member
4/24-Present
City Defense is 10%.
~Big Data Point Caveat/event: My first run-in with a daily attack/plunderer. Due to recognizing my defense setup would never result in a single casualty for them, I switched to a 1 spearfighter defense for 1-3 days to deny them Battle points. More unique attackers came in, so I have gone back to normal rotating defenses to attempt managing lesser attackers.

Anywho data:
9 attacks -- 8 breach -- 5 plunders(yay!) -- 5 unique attackers -- 2 unique attackers pillaged
[4 pillages from the devoted attacker & 1 pillage from someone who probably has a GF]
~The usual: Retribution attacks were expected due to my yoho habits.

Plundered goods (My losses): Residential (162 coin), Brewery(1708 Supplies), 2 Terrace farm hits(180/306 coins, 1556/2601 supplies or some combination. Sorry for the 'weak' data here), Lvl 2 Emperor's Entrance(5994 coins, 10 medals, 2FP).

Totals: 6156 coins (6768 Max), 1708 supplies (6910 Max), 10 medals, 2 FP.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this data accumulates, especially when hood rotation comes around.
3/21-3/30: 5 attacks -- 2 breach -- 0 plunder -- 2 retreats
4/5-4/10: 3 attacks -- 2 breach -- 0 plunder.
4/11-4/17: 5 attacks -- 2 breach -- 0 plunders -- 4 UAs(Unique attackers)
4/20-4/24: 7 attacks -- 1 breach -- 0 plunders -- 7 UA
4/25-4/30: 9 attacks -- 8 breach -- 5 plunders -- 5 UA -- 2 UAP(Unique attackers who pillaged me)

A/D% tracker
4/25-4/30: ATK1:52A/48D (No casualty); ATK2: 0/0 (No casualty, 1SP defense); ATK3: 8/0 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK4: 52/48 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK5: 24/24 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK6: 52/48 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK7: 3/3 (3 casualties. 2 attached); ATK8: 8/0 (No casualty, retreated); ATK9: 52/48 (No casualty).

ATK53/48: 4 pillages
ATK 3/3: 1 pillage

Notes/Observations:
~Breaches increased by +100%
~Yay! Pillage data!
~Do I secretly have a life, or did I let that FP plunder go through to skew data as part of my Machiavellian scheme? I plead the former.
My Totals:
34 days tracked
29 attacks -- 15 breaches -- 5 plunders

Total Actual Loss = 2 FP & assorted others(coins/supplies/medals)

Below numbers are a slap-dash estimated comparison (For defense investment versus FP berserker play styles).
[One TF (5FP/24hrs & 30 squares) versus 65 squares(GB and WF/RoF) & 2,100 FP investment]
34 days = 170 FP
29 attacks = 145 FP threat potential lose
15 breaches = 75 FP potential lose
???
Profit = +95 FP (Previous was 105FP) versus -2100 FP, peace of mind & not needing to collect on time.

Now to see if I can keep up the added load in my data collection. Maybe refine my comparisons to be more instructive for players weighing the pros and cons of which play style they wish to pursue long-term.
I've been plundered 4 times this week. Maybe was like 6 or 7 the previous week. I'm in FE and those attacking have 200% to 300% attack boost and 90% + defense boost. The effort and space required to build a defense that will deter even the low end attackers is not worth what it would save.
 

DeletedUser31882

5/2-Present
City Defense is 10%.
~Due to my bad time management, I now have a significant data hole (~4/30 thru ~5/2). Significant due to an active attack/plunderer in my hood.

Data:
3 attacks -- 2 breach -- 1 plunder -- 2 unique attackers -- 1 unique attacker pillaged
~The usual: Retribution attacks were expected due to my sporadic pirate raids of other cities.

Plundered goods (My losses): 10 Ropes (8hr HMA Good building production)
Totals: 10 goods

Old Data:
Plundered goods: Residential (162 coin), Brewery(1708 Supplies), 2 Terrace farm hits(180/306 coins, 1556/2601 supplies or some combination. Sorry for the 'weak' data here), Lvl 2 Emperor's Entrance(5994 coins, 10 medals, 2FP).

Grand Totals: 6156 coins (6768 Max), 1708 supplies (6910 Max), 10 medals, 2 FP, 10 goods.

Clockwork Plunderer appears to have had real-life commitments that interfered with the 24/7 attack/plunder schedule.
3/21-3/30: 5 attacks -- 2 breach -- 0 plunder -- 2 retreats
4/5-4/10: 3 attacks -- 2 breach -- 0 plunder.
4/11-4/17: 5 attacks -- 2 breach -- 0 plunders -- 4 UAs(Unique attackers)
4/20-4/24: 7 attacks -- 1 breach -- 0 plunders -- 7 UA
4/25-4/30: 9 attacks -- 8 breach -- 5 plunders -- 5 UA -- 2 UAP(Unique attackers who pillaged me)
5/2-5/7: 3 attacks -- 2 breach -- 1 plunder -- 2 UA -- 1 UAP
A/D% tracker
4/25-4/30:
ATK1:52A/48D (No casualty); ATK2: 0/0 (No casualty, 1SP defense); ATK3: 8/0 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK4: 52/48 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK5: 24/24 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK6: 52/48 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK7: 3/3 (3 casualties. 2 attached); ATK8: 8/0 (No casualty, retreated); ATK9: 52/48 (No casualty).
5/2-5/7: ATK1:0/0 (Retreat) ATK2:58/54(No casualty) ATK3:58/54(No casualty)

Pillager attack stats
ATK53/48: 4 pillages
ATK 3/3: 1 pillage
ATK58/53: 1 pillage

Notes/Observations:
~Breaches did not increase as I had hoped. Then again, my data collection was goofed. If data is used for suggestive advice, will assume data holes were 1 daily breach and a daily plunder.
~No high value plunders occurred in the data hole. Memory arguments be damned, I would remember if I had a T.Farm or Gate pillaged and hopefully y'all trust me.
My Totals:
40 days tracked
32 attacks -- 17 breaches -- 6 plunders

Total Actual Loss = 2 FP & assorted others(coins/supplies/medals/goods)

Below numbers are a slap-dash estimated comparison (For defense investment versus FP berserker play styles).
[One TF (5FP/24hrs & 30 squares) versus 65 squares(GB and WF/RoF) & 2,100 FP investment]
40 days = 200 FP
32 attacks = 160 FP threat potential lose
17 breaches = 85 FP potential lose
???
Profit = +115 FP (Previous was 105 & 95FP) versus -2100 FP, peace of mind & not needing to collect on time.

Looks like we lost @empireforger12 's data entries. Thanks for the thread that generated some spirited discussion. I may go type up a guide detailing potential play style approaches (Some day) and will draw heavily from this thread.
 

DeletedUser26965

the support pool of basil and deal can definately be a factor for a person in a GVG guild.
not really, the Guild levels bonus gives much more. If you had a level 1 guild with 80 members and they all had a level 10 SbC a level 30 guild with no SBC's would have more support pool. But really in today's world of attack GB's at 100 and Kraken and A/O and probably another next age that little defense doesn't really mean much anymore anyway.
 

DeletedUser26965

approx 10650 opportunities to be attacked
was attacked 88 times ...... 66 of those attackers retreated ....... 22 breached the 0% defense
12 plunders
Jeez, with data like that you'd think the plunder progress thread wouldn't even exist muchless be the most popular thread in FoE. IG incentivises PvP, obviously or else why make attacking so easy and add so many plunder baits to the game, so maybe that's the thing, maybe if you had a fully functioning Palace in every city you would see the data shift towards a higher attack/plunder percent.

edit: I just took a real quick sample of my cities of the past 5 days. I didn't include plunder because it takes longer to look them up due to them being in a different section than Battles, wish they would change that btw. There's often not much to plunder anyway as all there ever really is are Blacksmiths. I have been provoking, via attacks, the lower end of the hood mostly due to DC tasks but I don't plunder. They are mostly IA cities. I never Aid. All have current age defenses and some cities may have a bit of defense bonus. Regardless here's my data not including how many in hood as well;

May 10 Thursday 3:18 am to Tuesday May 15 6:30 am
26 Cities * 5 days = 130
74 Attacks 57% of days
23 Breeches 31% success rate overall
Average attacks 2.8

City - Age - Attacks - Breeches
A IA 4 0
B IA 0 0
C IA 4 0
D OF 5 4
E IA 2 1
F IA 2 1
G IA 4 1
H IA 2 1
J IA 6 0
K IA 3 0
L IA 0 0
M IA 3 3
N IA 1 0
O IA 2 1
P IA 2 0
Q IA 8 2
R IA 1 1
S IA 3 0
T HMA 1 1
U IA 3 1
V EMA 3 3
W HMA 3 2
X PE 1 0
Y IA 1 0
Z IA 1 1
A2 IA 9 0
Total 74 23

edit: Average hood size overall is 67 though this is from today after the new tower tournament has begun so 67*26=1742*5=8710 74 of 8710 is 0.84%
 
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DeletedUser10720

I recently remodeled my primary city, having saved up quite a few new set pieces i hadn't yet dropped, from daily challenges and spring, Cleo and expedition, as well as secondary 'Not as special' thing collected in my inventory.

Usually my redesign protocol is to use the foemanager mapmaker and delete anything I deem inefficient, place new buildings and proceed to Tetris around all my pieces until a suitable design comes up. I've always kept the watchfires and ritual flames that were constructed in place, and used them as filler in spaces otherwise inaccessible. But would never sell or consider them inefficient.

During the mapmaker phase of my recent shift I decided that i should run a test, I removed all watchfire, ritual flame and Vic towers from my map, as well as the monestary and the buildings that were already planned on being replaced. Then placed the new pieces. Not only was I able to build a near complete 3rd garden set, I was able to add 15 other producing special buildings from my inventory. Including a 4th palace ( recently obtained through daily challenge) the cleopatra tower, and a handful of other things totalling approximately 15 extra FP and 50 extra goods on my daily income.

I did the math and this design would have me cut approximately half of my dedicated WF/RF scale. Changing my defenses from just above 400% to 200%.
This also happens to be very close to the amount I would gain from building the small pile of WF/RF I've got also stocked in my inventory. So I made the conscious effort to fill every possible space with productive buildings and then, only after a space was deemed to be inaccessible, I would place one of my WF or a Vic tower. With the justification that if I began losing too much, I could simply replace these excess buildings with the WF/RF currently in my inventory and come back to effectively where I was prior to the adjustment.

So for close to 3 weeks now, I've been monitoring my hood closely. Without changing any of my pickup habits, atracking and plundering on the same scale I have always been and having half of the defensive boost I used to have. I thought I would see at least a minor spike in attack ratios, even if collecting on time would be able to prevent plunder.

I have been attacked exactly once since this change. Comparative to the 3 attacks and 1 plunder in the approximate month prior.

This, as well as the rest of the arguments presented here is minor information, anecdotal and I can't provide specific before % ratios as I neglected to write them down. But i can say that from what I have seen, and continue to see in my world and hood. Is that the space many people dedicate to defensive buildings is considerably excessive. The amount of earned FP and goods I've made in the 3 weeks or so I've had these additions running, would require daily plunders on nearly 15 buildings (and a lack of motivate on several of them as well) to counteract the income I've already gathered, adding to that all of what I will earn in the future from these buildings.

For those of you stating that your fields of watchfires visibly deter people from attacking, I believe this is at least somewhat evidential of that as false. Anyone looking at my city would have seen my defenses cut in half and several plunderable buildings appear in their place. And over the past few weeks there have been several opportunities for them to be plundered.

But even with a spike in attack and plunder the balance still goes up in my favor. I was able to drop a total of 15 productive buildings. Meaning that to counteract the benefits of that, I would have to see a spike of 10-15 plunders daily, just to offset the benefits of what I now added to my income.

In short. I'm leaning much closer to agreeing with the concept that the lowest amount of space dedicated only to defense, is the most efficient means. Even at a time when a hoodie plunders you repeatedly, the space needed in WF/RF would greatly exceed what that person could actually take from you when looking at ability to compare to productive buildings.
 

DeletedUser26965

In short. I'm leaning much closer to agreeing with the concept that the lowest amount of space dedicated only to defense, is the most efficient means.
The thing is though, isn't it all just kind of stating the obvious? Is it really needed to go to such extent to show proof of concept? I think we all pretty much would say being attacked out of the total of potential attacks is rare, my little dataset indicates less that 1% empireforger12's data shows the same 0.82%. So okay, on the face of it and not having access to the kind of data IG does getting attacked appears to be a very rare thing.

Now could you provoke more attacks upon you? I would think so, never aid, attack the entire hood daily, send taunting messages, boast in Global you're the best plunderer, have lots of plunder bait and never collect, be in an active GvG guild with lots of enemies, use a single Horseman as defense, have no defense boost at all, etc. and I'm sure the number of attacks and plunders you receive will go up. Again, another pretty obvious concept.

Really in the end all this is saying is use space for something else other than for defense and risk theoretically having more attacks as more players will now have the ability to breech your non defense. They'll always be someone stronger and I can see how one can get caught up in what's a really impossible game of cat and mouse as the game is designed to favor attackers, so do what you feel is good for you and it is what it is.
 

DeletedUser10720

The thing is though, isn't it all just kind of stating the obvious?
Yes. Overall there is a bit of stating the obvious in my lost and through the thread. But it's from an angle that isn't discussed nearly as often.
That preliminary data you've gathered shows a rough 1% rate for attack/plumder and even provoking more would likely not push it past 2.5% if even if it came close to that.

Looking at the plunder progress threads. Looking at how many of the vocal minority come in and complain about plunder and how battle favors the attacker, it is at least interesting to dissect the actual numbers and rates amongst this thread to see how much actually happens.
If anything, this thread gives evidence to the idea that we should be encouraging more attacking and plundering. If the large groups in here who attack everyone daily and plunder as often as possible are cumulatively only touching 1% of their potential. I think it's an argument for us to step it up and plunder more often. Inno has clearly been trying to decide ways to encourage PvP since voyager came into being and since then they have added Atlantis and daily challenges.

How many more people could you plunder if you removed that defense in favor of more barracks? Not even plunderable and done right, clearly profitable.
 

DeletedUser26965

Yes. Overall there is a bit of stating the obvious in my lost and through the thread.
Oh I didn't mean just you, the OP as well as anyone else coming across with agreement and such, not trying to be judgemental just fleshing it out is all. But yes, I agree, still makes for interesting discussion and insight in terms of the game.
 

DeletedUser26965

you didn't mention you defense %
some cities may have a bit of defense bonus
Yeah, I didn't go into this to do a full blown analysis though really so sorry for lacking detail, I just wanted to get an overview of all my cities. Nearly all cities have a little bit of defense boost like maybe a couple watchfires, maybe a few have none and I think a couple have like 8+ or something. Only one city has both with DC and SbC. I just started doing DC's a couple weeks ago on all of them so I've been attacking regularly.

But I agree when you think of it in terms of total "potential" attacks the actual attacks are very small percentage wise and I can't imagine it shifting very much even if all my IA cities were in EMA instead of IA especially since your data seems to correspond.
 

DeletedUser31882

5/16-Present
City Defense is 10% - 4 weeks into LMA - World G -- Average ranking in hood: Top 10
~Due to my waning interest in data collection, data holes will crop up more often now and into the future. I intend to hit this thread up (at least in thought) any time I get pillaged. Which is what reminded me to come back here and post data.

Data:
4 attacks -- 3 breach -- 1 plunder -- 3 unique attackers -- 1 unique attacker pillaged -- 1 pillager was pillaged(by me)
~Retribution attacks were expected due to my sporadic pirate raids of other cities and I can confirm the pillage originated from someone whom I have pillaged.

Plundered goods (My losses): 10 Ropes (8hr HMA Good building production)
Totals: 10 goods
~Yup, exactly the same as last time

Old Data:
Plundered goods: Residential (162 coin), Brewery(1708 Supplies), 2 Terrace farm hits(306 coins & 2601 supplies. Assuming worst case scenarios for conclusion purposes), Lvl 2 Emperor's Entrance(5994 coins, 10 medals, 2FP) & 10 Goods (10 Ropes)

Grand Totals: 6156 coins (6768 Max), 1708 supplies (6910 Max), 10 medals, 2 FP, 20 goods(20 HMA).

3/21-3/30: 5 attacks -- 2 breach -- 0 plunder -- 2 retreats
4/5-4/10: 3 attacks -- 2 breach -- 0 plunder.
4/11-4/17: 5 attacks -- 2 breach -- 0 plunders -- 4 UAs(Unique attackers)
4/20-4/24: 7 attacks -- 1 breach -- 0 plunders -- 7 UA
4/25-4/30: 9 attacks -- 8 breach -- 5 plunders -- 5 UA -- 2 UAP(Unique attackers who pillaged me)
5/2-5/7: 3 attacks -- 2 breach -- 1 plunder -- 2 UA -- 1 UAP
5/16-5/21: 4 attacks -- 3 breach -- 1 plunder -- 3 UA -- 1 UAP -- 1CPP(Confirmed Pillager Pillaged prior to pillaging my city)

A/D% & casualty tracker
4/25-4/30:
ATK1:52/48 (No casualty); ATK2: 0/0 (No casualty, 1SP defense); ATK3: 8/0 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK4: 52/48 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK5: 24/24 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK6: 52/48 (No casualty, 1SP); ATK7: 3/3 (3 casualties. 2 attached); ATK8: 8/0 (No casualty, retreated); ATK9: 52/48 (No casualty).
5/2-5/7: ATK1:0/0 (Retreat) ATK2:58/54(No casualty) ATK3:58/54(No casualty)
5/16-5/21: ATK1:117/94(No casualty) ATK2:29/27(2 casualties. 2 unattached) ATK3:39/9(Retreat) ATK4:29/27(2 casualties. 2 unattached)

Pillager attack stats
ATK53/48: 4 pillages
ATK 3/3: 1 pillage
ATK58/53: 1 pillage
ATK29/27: 1 pillage

Notes/Observations:
~As can be gathered, I'm lax on my collection time for goods buildings.
~I believe I should add a section tracking my city's vulnerable buildings. For future data and advice giving purposes.

Vulnerable Valuable building tracker
(Goods/FPs = valuable. coin/supply/medals = meh)
5/16-5/21: 3 Terrace Farms (5FP/24hr & (5x6 x3 = 90sq || 0.16667FP per sq)), lv. 2 - Emperor's Entrance (LMA - 5994 coin/2FP/10medals & (37sq || 0.10811FP per sq), Blooming Cider Mill (1FP/24hr & (9sq || 0.11111FP per sq), Bountiful Cider Mill (3FP/24hr & (15sq || 0.2FP per sq), Magnum Opus(1FP/8hr, crowns/4hr or medals/1hr & (6sq || 0.33333FP per sq)) 3x Ropery buildings (10ropes/8hr or 5ropes/4hr & 18sq).
Total: 10 VVBs (25FP/~75ropes every 24hours & 175 squares used)
My Totals:
46 days tracked
36 attacks -- 20 breaches -- 7 plunders

Total Actual Loss = 2 FP, 20 goods & assorted others(coins/supplies/medals)

Slap-dash estimated comparison (For defense investment versus FP berserker play styles & future guide ideas).
[One TF (5FP/24hrs & 30 squares) versus 65 squares(GB and WF/RoF) & 2,100 FP investment]
46 days = 230 FP
36 attacks = 180 FP threat potential lose
20 breaches = 100 FP potential lose
???
Profit = +130 FP (Previous:115, 105 & 95FP) versus -2100 FP, peace of mind & not needing to collect on time.

A different comparison (My current VVB Berserker versus Turtle version of Hand of Thrawn)
[10 VVBs (25FP/~75ropes/24hours & 175 squares) versus 16 WW/12 RF/8 SBC (2100FP & 65 squares)]

Berserker Hypothetical Outputs:
10 VVBs (25FP/~75ropes/24hours & 175 squares)

46 days = 1150 FP & 3450 goods (Assumes perfect collection rate)
1150/15 = ~77 days of 3x T.farm plundered needed to negate accumulated benefits.
1150/10 = 115 days of 2x T.farm plundered needed to negate accumulated benefits.
1150/5 = 230 days of 1x T.farm plundered needed to negate accumulated benefits.

28 days = 700 FP & 2100 goods
700/15 = ~47 days of 3x T.farm plundered needed to negate accumulated benefits.
700/10 = 70 days of 2x T.farm plundered needed to negate accumulated benefits.
700/5 = 140 days of 1x T.farm plundered needed to negate accumulated benefits.

Turtle Hypothetical Outputs:
16 WW/12 RF/8 SBC (2100FP & 65 squares)
(65 sq lose: 18 (3x Ropery), 37 (Partial CBS), 9 (Bloom C.Mill), 1 WW)
5VVB (20FP & 111 squares)

46 days = 920 FP
920/15 = ~61 days of 3x T.farm plundered needed to negate accumulated benefits.
920/10 = 92 days of 2x T.farm plundered needed to negate accumulated benefits.
920/5 = 184 days of 1x T.farm plundered needed to negate accumulated benefits.

Thoughts:
~Turtle has a 'vulnerability' in that less VVB = plunders take profits faster than berserker. May be irrelevant since turtle = more green thumbs.
~Hypothetical turtle does not lose on on as much FP generation as I expected. It does lose out on good production/FP growth potential.
~2100 FP investment: 84 days of Berserker, 105 days of Turtle with a difference of 21 days. Uh huh.
~Turtle just got a whole lot easier to advocate for, especially for people who do not collect on time. Now to enrich my data by tracking my plundering habits versus turtles to enrich PvP guide advice.
 
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DeletedUser32906

I totally understand the logic behind no city defense but....... I got to see another of those BEAUTIFUL green thumbs today and watching the replay was a lot of fun. His attack was high and he had a Arctic Orange leveled to 10 so there was several critical hits....... was an awesome battle to watch for me
 

DeletedUser26965

i 'm thinking the spoilage is tied to logging in and not tied to collecting.
i have left many of the same building uncollected for over 6 weeks and none have spoiled
This is the latest thing I could find on it from over 4 years ago lol;

  • Removed Supply Spoiling - The time limit in which to collect supplies has been changed to 100 days, meaning that, effectively, they can no longer spoil. This is to remove the negative impact of spoiled supplies.
Change Log 1.21

Strange to word it that way to, to say it's removed though it's not actually removed.
 

DeletedUser32824

#1 in my hood killed my defense first day of the new hood and I obliterated his army. I have 5% Defense from the cherry set and he has 271%. Neither one of us has been able to plunder the other...yet. (My city is way better than his though, because his is so crammed with watchfires)

Here's what I sent him in a message:

That was embarassing for 271% defense! Thanks for the 1 champ/7 rogue strat. Man, just think of what you could fit in your city instead of all those watch fires.