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DeletedUser35366

Would like to see the numbers on this if player was in top hood of the world. :)

That said, I am in the top 15 there (US25) and I recently did drop 100%+ worth of ritual flames for more SoKs. I so rarely get attacked but not sure I would have done the same thing if I was in the bottom half instead.
Dursland.... please send retired ritual flames over to my little shiny city.
 

DeletedUser32307

All this data is the reason I deleted my Deal Castle and replaced it with an AO. Defense is nearly useless because its's way more damaging to be a sniper. Sure you can spend all day trying to score 5 FP at the most, but a sniper can do serious damage to an arc in 1 blow.

A neighbor of mine is basically one of the top in my hood with something like 45% defense. I only found that out because he locked my arc real low at 3rd and needless to say I wasn't going to take that lying down so I attacked him. I plundered him twice so far but only got good buildings, not nearly inflicting the damage he's done to me and he's laughing all the way to the FP bank. I mean if a guy with a high attack boosts attacks you, they're going to go through anyway so what's the point of putting up defense structures? In that way my neighbor was smart to employ that strategy and just be that annoying sniper trying to lock your arc (or other buildings) low.
 

DeletedUser36281

i don't build defense GB.... in one of my new worlds that i play my defense is 72% with only 5RF and 8 WF and they are in the space that i cant use for any other building. the only reason i would ever build DC or Basil is for GSP, but since i have OBS and Arc and i do GE level 4 and GVG, and have HOF that levels the guild and by doing that it increase the GSP i usually skip DC or Basil... but that's from the fighter prospective.... if i was a farmer then i guess DC and Basil would be a must... and lets not kid our self, this game encourage the fighting and plundering so all you have to do is see what loses you can accept
 
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DeletedUser32973

All this data is the reason I deleted my Deal Castle and replaced it with an AO. Defense is nearly useless because its's way more damaging to be a sniper. Sure you can spend all day trying to score 5 FP at the most, but a sniper can do serious damage to an arc in 1 blow.

A neighbor of mine is basically one of the top in my hood with something like 45% defense. I only found that out because he locked my arc real low at 3rd and needless to say I wasn't going to take that lying down so I attacked him. I plundered him twice so far but only got good buildings, not nearly inflicting the damage he's done to me and he's laughing all the way to the FP bank. I mean if a guy with a high attack boosts attacks you, they're going to go through anyway so what's the point of putting up defense structures? In that way my neighbor was smart to employ that strategy and just be that annoying sniper trying to lock your arc (or other buildings) low.
I've always felt snipers are the real plunderers. Plundering petty garbage from your neighbors is small time. One big snipe can enrage an entire guild and make enemies of 80 people at once. What's stealing a few goods or fp compared to that?
 

DeletedUser30566

I guess what most of you are failing to mentionned when it come to defense is the attacking part of the defense. In higher ages with attackers at 400+ you will probably loose a battle if you don’t have the right counter units even with 800+ defense ... but if your attack part of defense is around 150+ minimum... now you are going to deter most of the Attacks and the ronins are the perfect tool for that.... if your attacker do not have a high defense part of his attack then your defender will bite back with real damages.
The introduction of TA that raise the 4 indicators (att/def-att/att-def/def-def/att) is a game changer, raising it very high ( as I hope advanced player are doing everywhere like their CdM, CoA and Zeus) will drastically improve your defense ( by raising the attack part) and if you couple it with Deal and SBC ( push at 60) you have now a city very very well defended.
No need to worry for your TF or Palaces or ships to get collected in time ( or your VF goods buildings because you want to produce tons of VF good to sell TA kits)
With 650/180 defense value and 8 Ronins in defense even 8 turturets will not break that as long as the attacker do not have a 180 defense part of their attack.
 

DeletedUser17543

i advocate for a 0% defense strategy.
in this thread i will illustrate the negative production value of defensive structures, by continually posting information from my game worlds.
i will use the median size good building from each age as a baseline for illustration purposes becasue goods are the most likely target of plunder.
[more data is always helpful! if anyone else wants to share their info it would be very welcome.]

all of these worlds have 0% defense boost. the defensive armies are 8 current age troops.
i never use the 'city shield' tavern boost.
there are plenty of targets to plunder in each of these cities

3/21-3/27 - 6 days

Dunarsund - Colonial age - i do not aid to deter any attacks - position in hood
3 attacks -- 3 retreats -- 0 breach -- 0 plunder
the median goods building in colonial is 9 squares.
if i had 9 squares of defensive structures, i would have lost 6 collections.
by not having 9 squares of defense, and having 1 goods building in their place, i was able to collect 6, 24hr collections
summary:
0% defense = 120 goods in profits.
9 squares of defense would have caused a loss of 120 goods.

Fel Dranghyr - EMA - i do not aid to deter any attacks - position in hood
3 attacks -- 2 retreat -- 1 breach -- 1 plunder
the median goods building in EMA is 12 squares.
if i had 12 squares of defensive structures, i would have lost 6 collections.
by not having 12 squares of defense, and having 1 goods building in their place, i was able to collect 5, 24hr collections
summary:
0% defense = 100 goods in profits.
12 squares of defense would have caused a loss of 100 goods

Houndsmoor - ME - i aid which may deter some attacks - position in hood
2 attacks -- 0 retreat -- 2 breach -- 0 plunder
the median goods building in ME is 25 squares.
if i had 25 squares of defensive structures, i would have lost 6 collections.
by not having 25 squares of defense, and having 1 goods building in their place, i was able to collect 6, 24hr collections
summary:
0% defense = 120 goods in profits.
25 squares of defense would have caused a loss of 120 goods

Summary:
8 attacks -- 5 retreat -- 3 breach -- 1 plunder
340 total goods gained. average of 113 per world

observations:
-the small number of attacks relative to potential attacks
-having defensive structures equal to 2 or 3 goods buildings on any world, would have doubled or tripled my losses to 200-300+ goods on each world.

[these examples were with standard goods buildings. similar examples can be done with any other type of building.]

conclusions:
the game is designed to protect players and their production in many ways.
-a player can only be attacked by the people in their neighborhood. (not any person in the game at any time.)
-random rotating neighborhoods. (one person cant attack and plunder the same player forever.)
-players can only be in a neighborhood with people about the same tech tree progress (EMA players can't be in a hood with Indy players, reducing the chance of a unfair attack)
-players can only be attacked and plundered by a player 1x in 24 hours. (not countless times in a row, until all of players building are plundered)
-players can only plunder select uncollected buildings (many buildings are plunder proof.)
-once items are collected they are stored in a players untouchable inventory and safe from ever being plundered.
- etc...
with the amount of safeties currently designed into the game. adding defense, for the sake of protecting production, proves to be very costly in terms of the negative impact it has on a players usable production.

attacking and plundering is statistically very rare in this game. people who defend (and over defend), in an attempt to keep their production safe, are very likely losing more from having defense in their city.
defensive structures are great for players who are trying to win the 'great wall of china' achievement or enjoy watching an attacker retreat.
however,
building/growing a city requires having usable production. in most cases, placing defensive structures in a city causes a greater loss of usable production than plundering and would therefore hinder a persons ability to build/grow their city.
as a player who is interested in building and growing my city, i use and advocate for a 0% defense strategy. this includes reducing and eliminating defensive structures as much as possible and increasing the amount of usable production buildings. doing this, increases the amount of usable production i have available. the usable production can then be used for building and growing my city faster and stronger.
Not been my experience! I am seeing continuous rotation of players in 2 of my neighborhoods and many times the top players are ranked much higher with capabilities far beyond most of the neighborhood, and with Teracottta Armies and the other plunder bonus GBs they raid and plunder all the time stealing FPs and goods. So the neighborhoods are lopsided a lot. Inno should foster more of a pro trade policy rather than conflict. Allow for the trade of BPs, and buildings from a players inventory. Plundering should be a last resort, you can battle in GvG, PvP, and GE.
 

DeletedUser32307

Not been my experience! I am seeing continuous rotation of players in 2 of my neighborhoods and many times the top players are ranked much higher with capabilities far beyond most of the neighborhood, and with Teracottta Armies and the other plunder bonus GBs they raid and plunder all the time stealing FPs and goods. So the neighborhoods are lopsided a lot. Inno should foster more of a pro trade policy rather than conflict. Allow for the trade of BPs, and buildings from a players inventory. Plundering should be a last resort, you can battle in GvG, PvP, and GE.
Why? If the player doesn't aid you, they open themselves to attack. If they aren't willing to help your city why should you "leave them alone." Give me the benefit of using their stuff if they can't take a second of their day to press the aid button to prevent an attack. Besides, most are too lazy to plunder, I went back to plundering recently and only do it if something is there when I attack. Otherwise I don't bother to check back. And yes, I'm speaking from being the top in my neighborhood with all the souped up military capabilities. If you are going to be lazy and not aid, of course I'm going to attack you if I need to. But I'm not a bully, I only focus on the top of the neighborhood, I like the neighbors that actually put effort into their defense, high percentage plus higher age troops so it's more challenging. The ones that suck are the snipers with low defenses.
 

DeletedUser35550

Why? If the player doesn't aid you, they open themselves to attack. If they aren't willing to help your city why should you "leave them alone." Give me the benefit of using their stuff if they can't take a second of their day to press the aid button to prevent an attack. Besides, most are too lazy to plunder, I went back to plundering recently and only do it if something is there when I attack. Otherwise I don't bother to check back. And yes, I'm speaking from being the top in my neighborhood with all the souped up military capabilities. If you are going to be lazy and not aid, of course I'm going to attack you if I need to. But I'm not a bully, I only focus on the top of the neighborhood, I like the neighbors that actually put effort into their defense, high percentage plus higher age troops so it's more challenging. The ones that suck are the snipers with low defenses.
I don't get mad, I get even ... I wait until they're about to level for a double dip swoop in and level off preventing them from doing so, sooner or later they get the hint
 

DeletedUser31440

Found this person in one of my hoods today, think they might benefit from reading this thread. HMA city with a defense of 75/650ish. So much space that could be used. SBC and Deal both at 11 and I counted 120 tiles being used on watchfires and ritual flames.

Ridiculous Defense.JPG
 

DeletedUser32906

Found this person in one of my hoods today, think they might benefit from reading this thread. HMA city with a defense of 75/650ish. So much space that could be used. SBC and Deal both at 11 and I counted 120 tiles being used on watchfires and ritual flames.

View attachment 10972
I find that to be a autiful city myself .... I wish I had teeth like that when I was in the High Middle Ages..... I am honestly a little jealous hahahahaha
 

Volodya

Well-Known Member
Found this person in one of my hoods today, think they might benefit from reading this thread. HMA city with a defense of 75/650ish. So much space that could be used. SBC and Deal both at 11 and I counted 120 tiles being used on watchfires and ritual flames.

View attachment 10972
I think that's a very viable, well-designed city for a player who values the satisfaction of thwarting attacks over uber-efficiency. That's pretty much how I play. I don't like losing, which to me means losing a battle, not being plundered of resources, all of which I have ample supplies of. That approach has worked quite well for me thus far. Even with the space "wasted" on my 800% defense, I generate around 200 fps a day and all the goods etc. I need.
 

DeletedUser33606

I currently have a 24/224 defense (not counting troop boosts) buoyed by 16 Watchfires + 12 Ritual Flames, and a level 8 Saint Basil's Cathedral on its way to level 10 before moving on to something else. I haven't been plundered since I don't know... 2016?
I have over 350% defense bonus in all my cities and SBC lvl 7 in two of them, usually am in top 5 of my hood, and I get plundered sometimes. It's not often, but sometimes. Usually, it's one neighbor who rotates in and hits me pretty much every day until he rotates out. I could watch my collections closely and prevent the plunder, but it's not worth it to be a slave to a collection timer. I almost always retaliate and plunder them if I can, but that does not consistently do the trick. The vast majority of people who attack me retreat , while some fight it out and lose, but the players who use plunder as their normal strategy will usually be strong enough to breach your defense no matter how strong it is. I don't know whether OP is correct because I've never tried going with 0% defense, but RFs and WFs take up a lot of space in my cities, so it does make me curious whether I would be better off scrapping them and using that space for something productive. I could probably put down a couple more TFs if I got rid of all my RF/WFs. Even if they both got plundered 5 days a week, which would be unheard of, that would still be 20 extra FPs a week over the zero I'm getting from the RF/WFs.
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
I have over 350% defense bonus in all my cities and SBC lvl 7 in two of them, usually am in top 5 of my hood, and I get plundered sometimes. It's not often, but sometimes. Usually, it's one neighbor who rotates in and hits me pretty much every day until he rotates out. I could watch my collections closely and prevent the plunder, but it's not worth it to be a slave to a collection timer. I almost always retaliate and plunder them if I can, but that does not consistently do the trick. The vast majority of people who attack me retreat , while some fight it out and lose, but the players who use plunder as their normal strategy will usually be strong enough to breach your defense no matter how strong it is. I don't know whether OP is correct because I've never tried going with 0% defense, but RFs and WFs take up a lot of space in my cities, so it does make me curious whether I would be better off scrapping them and using that space for something productive. I could probably put down a couple more TFs if I got rid of all my RF/WFs. Even if they both got plundered 5 days a week, which would be unheard of, that would still be 20 extra FPs a week over the zero I'm getting from the RF/WFs.
Ok? I don't even remember this thread or why I made the point I did. I'm not reading it over again, but based on my quote alone and your response, you're welcome to your opinion on what might work better for you. I get attacked several times a week, but they don't beat me... ever. If I dropped my Watchfires and Ritual Flames, they probably would... and they'd probably attack me more often. Others might also attack me since I'd be much less visually "terrifying" to them to at least give it a shot. I can't say for sure, but I'm also happy not testing the theory. As you can see, I'm fine with forge points, and the way I'm set up, I don't worry about not collecting on time. There are days where I get busy and can't collect for several hours. And there are times where sleep happens and collection has to wait until the morning due to the slow creep of the 24-hour aid/collection clock in this game. Even if I got plundered, I wouldn't care. But it doesn't happen and I'm fine with it that way. Could I build more things if I tore down those defensive buildings? Sure. Do I need to? Nah.

Screen Shot 2018-10-16 at 5.18.15 AM.png
 

DeletedUser29623

I mostly don't get attacked and plundered, but every so often one of my cities rotates into a plundery neighborhood. In one, my tavern has been maxed out for a while, so I just pay for the city shield when I don't need the boost for GE. That way, I only have to worry about collection times for a few days a week. Even if I lose a few FPs during the days I need the boost for an extra negotiation turn, it's still cheaper than putting up a lot of defense. I did build the Terracotta Army in one city, though, because a one-stop shop for combat boosts seems worth investing in for those times when ya gotta fight.
 

DeletedUser26120

not being plundered of resources
The space used costs you more than you'd ever lose in plunder, imho - especially if you don't leave more than 15-30 min gap on collections.

I keep adding watchfires/flames to my city to fill space wherever but have no problems deleting them for new SoKs and so on - did that for 4 new ones recently.
 

Volodya

Well-Known Member
The space used costs you more than you'd ever lose in plunder, imho - especially if you don't leave more than 15-30 min gap on collections.

I keep adding watchfires/flames to my city to fill space wherever but have no problems deleting them for new SoKs and so on - did that for 4 new ones recently.
You completely misread my comment. I don't care about losing resources if I lose a battle. I don't care about being plundered if I lose. What I don't like is losing a battle, period.
 

DeletedUser25700

Forge of Empires
World: Mount Kilgore

I’m confused

I activated a 72-hour City Shield @8:00am Saturday
Solidgeoff plundered Warehouse @5:10 pm Saturday
Solidgeoff last attack on my city was @10:06 pm Friday
How is this possible?

1) Does a city shield NOT protect against plundering buildings?
2) Can you hold off plundering after a city attack for 19 hours?

Not really worried about the plundering, but would like to know if I’m wasting $$ on a shield.
 
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RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
Forge of Empires
World: Mount Kilgore

I’m confused

I activated a 72-hour City Shield @8:00am Saturday
Solidgeoff plundered Warehouse @5:10 pm Saturday
Solidgeoff last attack on my city was @10:06 pm Friday
How is this possible?

1) Does a city shield NOT protect against plundering buildings?
2) Can you hold off plundering after a city attack for 19 hours?

Not really worried about the plundering, but would like to know if I’m wasting $$ on a shield.
Solidgeoff last attacked your city at @10:06 pm Friday
You activated a 72-hour City Shield @8:00am Saturday
Solidgeoff plundered your Warehouse @5:10 pm Saturday

City Shield keeps people from attacking you, it does not keep people from plundering you. Since Solidgeoff attacked your city prior to your purchase of a City Shield, they could plunder you with or without City Shield until 5:09 pm Saturday.