Add the ability to cancel tavern boosts

Discussion in 'Proposals' started by Lightningtow, Jul 27, 2018.

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  1. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

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    Founding Fathers were afraid that a majority of the population would form a faction greater than 50% and overthrow the government more or less. So they decided to institute the electoral college as a check against "the tyranny of the majority", aka they wanted a democracy but were afraid of it, so they made a quasi democracy that insulated the government from the whims of the uneducated.
     
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  2. Agent327

    Agent327 Well-Known Member

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    But what about the Elephant?
     
  3. Salsuero

    Salsuero Well-Known Member

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    And now, rather than insulating the government, it insults the people.
     
  4. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

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    The people would have to actually know about it to be insulted.
     
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  5. Salsuero

    Salsuero Well-Known Member

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    I am a part of the people, sir.
     
  6. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

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    But your not the people, just a small minority that wants to know how the election process works.
     
  7. Lightningtow

    Lightningtow Member

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  8. Graviton

    Graviton Well-Known Member

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    The Electoral College is about levelling the power between rural America and urban population centers, which it still does. States without large cities needed then, and need now, something to balance their lack of political power against the concentrated political power of large urban centers. The Founders knew pure democracy is a bad idea. It's two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

    Of course, complaints about the EC are just like every other complaint from one of the two mainstream parties and their adherents: a complete hypocrisy. If it benefits their team they're all for it, and if it doesn't it's a horrible travesty of justice. They can't be objective because above all, it's a team sport. Rah rah, sis-boom-bah.
     
  9. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but that is not correct. This is:
    Unfortunately, when Electors had the very circumstance where their presence and freedom to ignore the ignorant masses became important, they abdicated their responsibility. And so we have an unfit person in the White House because the ignorance of the masses was not overridden by the Electoral College as the Founding Fathers intended.
     
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  10. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

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    A little over half the states have laws that require their electors to vote according to the polls while the others do not. So you could see electors dismissing the polls and voting however they see fit, but it has never happened and most likely never will. I'm a bit surprised that more states didn't pass laws forcing the electors to vote according to the polls after the last election when multiple electors said they would not honor the polls. Also all but 2 states require their electors to vote according to the majority winner, while Maine and Nebraska give their two senate votes to the majority winner and the districts vote according to the results from that individual district.

    Edit: Majority in this case is by the state election polls not nationwide polls.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  11. Lord Muggle

    Lord Muggle Well-Known Member

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    Ironic that this started as a proposal about tavern boosts and has morphed into a conversation about US election policy.
     
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  12. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Well-Known Member

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    Some may have laws that require their electors to follow the state election results, but that doesn't mean the electors couldn't flout the law and accept the consequences. I don't believe states have the power to override the elector's actions, only punish them.
     
  13. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

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    That's a grey area, but my guess is that it would get appealed and put before the Supreme Court pretty quickly and the election would be overturned and have to be re-voted. There would definitely be riots though.

    Cancel tavern boost proposals are a dime a dozen, so at least some people are hopefully learning some stuff instead of beating a dead horse. I think I made a proposal for canceling tavern boosts at one point, I wanted it to cost an absurd amount of silver to do so though.
     
  14. Salsuero

    Salsuero Well-Known Member

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    What? I don't want to know anything. I already knew how it worked. LOL And I know many people who also do. WE are a part of THE PEOPLE, sir.

    Are you sure it's never happened? You might wanna fact-check that statement.

    Wrong. The electors are under no legal obligation to vote a certain way in many jurisdictions and would not be subject to any adverse judgement after the fact. In fact, many of the electors are only "required" to vote a certain way OR FACE A FINE... and not even a particularly stiff one. I doubt there would've been riots since the popular vote would've been respected, but even if so, that's what police are for.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  15. Salsuero

    Salsuero Well-Known Member

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    Actually, there wasn't an ignorance of the masses to override since Trump didn't win the popular vote. Had we gone with the "ignorant masses", we wouldn't be in this predicament.
     
  16. commanderstinkfoot

    commanderstinkfoot Active Member

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    You do it your way and we do it our way. The world only need 1 USA,. 1 Mexico, 1 Germany. We all don't need to be exactly alike. Our way works so why would we change it because you don't get it?
     
  17. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

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    You're right I should have been more specific, faithless electors have never changed the outcome of an election.

    That is true, but there is also a thing called the spirit of the law, which would be challenged if the election outcome was changed. As it has never actually happened, it is impossible to say how it would play out. But, yes there would be riots, not protests, riots, if faithless electors changed the outcome of an election.

    Edit: Should also be said that the majority of faithless electors have done so because the candidate who got the majority vote died in the time between the polling and when the electoral college convened.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  18. Salsuero

    Salsuero Well-Known Member

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    Since I'm American and I do get it, don't be a moron with statements like this. We don't all need to be exactly alike. That doesn't mean we need broken, antiquated systems in place either. We have the means to fix the parts that don't work. I'm in favor of doing so in this case.
     
  19. Salsuero

    Salsuero Well-Known Member

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    Wrong again. Research the election of 1836. Ok, maybe the end result was that the outcome didn't change, but the fact that it was delayed by the electors UNTIL it was ultimately decided by Senate is enough of an example of how this can and has been an issue at least once in history.

    There were no riots in 1836 due to the shenanigans of faithless electors. Maybe if the Senate hadn't stepped in to correct what the electors had done, you might be right, but I don't believe so. Sadly, I don't think people care enough to riot over something like this, even today. They're much too apathetic to vote, let alone riot over what happens as a result of the vote.
     
  20. Ozyman Tremble Weaklings

    Ozyman Tremble Weaklings Well-Known Member

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    ...
     

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