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Forwarded Allow Open-Door Guilds to Maintain a Friendly Community

Would you like the idea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 82.6%
  • No

    Votes: 4 17.4%

  • Total voters
    23

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
Idea:
Everybody can walk into a welcoming open guild, including scammers/trolls. Provide automated means to block scammers/trolls on their second auto-entry attempt, while still keeping doors open to everyone else.

Have you Checked the Ideas section for the same idea posted by someone else? Is this idea similar to one that has been previously suggested?
There are relevant questions in different sections of the forum. I could not see a very similar idea using the search tool.

Reason:
We love keeping our guild doors open to all players, including newbies and introverts. Unfortunately, some players (i) disrespect the whole guild, or (ii) make a mess on threads and leave. Scammers/trolls walk into a guild, start spamming all/any guild threads such as the Main thread, Swaps, Sticks to Bricks, Trade Requests, x1.9 FPs etc. They don't necessarily aim for gain, but sometimes just to spread negativity, annoyance and make others to clean up their mess. What is worse is that each spammer/troll can repeat it weekly. As they are not hard offenders, they cannot be banned through Inno rules. Our leaders can boot out those players and clean up threads. However, it takes a toll on our FoE experience. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!". At the moment, open-door guilds like us are doomed to be shamed. Our only option to protect us is to close our doors and make the guild invitation- application-only. However, invitation- or application-only options are in no way as friendly as open-gates.

Details:
An exception list could solve the issue (e.g. on Guild/Administration window around invitations lists). Troublesome players (accounts instead of names) can be added to the exception list only after they are booted out or left themselves within a week (or 24 hours). While in the exception list, players can still apply for the guild membership and have open communication channels with members of the guild, but cannot auto-join to create the same mess again. So, the guild remains open for everyone to try out once. Keeping track of the troublesome accounts can help all guilds (not just open ones) as player names can change over time and guilds don't have effective/persistent means to track them now. It is similar to the Ignore feature (made for guilds), but it can be activated only after given conditions and for a limited time to prevent it from becoming a blacklist where players can be randomly added.

Visual Aids:
None

Balance:
Proposed solution do not make certain player types stronger or weaker.

Abuse Prevention:
Guild leaders cannot add anyone to the exception list randomly.

Summary:
We would like to keep our doors open for everyone except who already broke our hearts. Just because there are some scammers/trolls, the whole community should not be more restrictive and less welcoming. We don't want to question if a new joiner is a scammer/troll and want to help him/her out immediately. If it turns out to be a troublesome player, at least we will be fooled only once.
 
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DreadfulCadillac1

Well-Known Member
The apply function works nicely for this, you can still allow new players to join, but you can also block known bad people from entering.
Idea:
Everybody can walk into a welcoming open guild, including scammers/trolls. Provide automated means to block scammers/trolls on their second auto-entry attempt, while still keeping doors open to everyone else.

Have you Checked the Ideas section for the same idea posted by someone else? Is this idea similar to one that has been previously suggested?
There are relevant questions in different sections of the forum. I could not see a very similar idea using the search tool.

Reason:
We love keeping our guild doors open to all players including newbies and introverts. Unfortunately, some players (i) disrespect the whole guild, or (ii) make a mess on threads and leave. Scammers/trolls walk into a guild, start spamming all/any guild threads such as the Main thread, Swaps, Sticks to Bricks, Trade Requests, x1.9 FPs etc. They don't necessarily aim for gain, but sometimes just to spread negativity, annoyance and make others to clean up their mess. What is worse is that each spammer/troll can repeat it weekly. As they are not hard offenders, they cannot be banned through Inno rules. Our leaders can boot out those players and clean up threads. However, it takes a toll on our FoE experience. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!". At the moment open-door guilds like us are doomed to be shamed. Our only option to protect us is to close our doors and make the guild invitation-only. However, invitation-only option is no way as friendly as open-gates.

Details:
An exception list could solve the issue (e.g. on Guild/Administration window around invitations lists). Troublesome players can be added to the exception list only after they are booted out or left themselves within a week (or 24 hours). While in the exception list, players can still apply for the guild membership and have open communication channels with members of the guild, but cannot auto-join to create the same mess again. So, guild remains open for everyone to try out once.

Visual Aids:
None

Balance:
Proposed solution do not make certain player types stronger or weaker.

Abuse Prevention:
Guild leaders cannot add anyone to the exception list randomly.

Summary:
We would like to keep our doors open for everyone except who already broke our hearts. Just because there are some scammers/trolls, the whole community should not be more restrictive and less welcoming. We don't want to question if a new joiner is a scammer/troll and want to help him/her out immediately. If it turns out to be a troublesome player, at least we will be fooled only once.
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
The apply function works nicely for this, you can still allow new players to join, but you can also block known bad people from entering.
Apply function requires active recruiting, unless you are a big/famous guild. I don't want to be one of those annoying guys knocking on the door to sell things.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
A blacklist / block to join option would be a good idea for auto-join guilds. There’s just one caveat to this. It must be linked to the account, not the name. Otherwise they’ll be back in 6 months and whoever picks up the old name will be blocked instead

In fact, if it can be done to block by player (not name) then this would be useful for all guilds, not just auto-join. Cause you’ll never be able to keep track of players that change names unless you have a open conversation with them and that only lasts 60 days before the message gets deleted. So unless you have a conversation marked Important that every member comments on once with their current username......
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
A blacklist / block to join option would be a good idea for auto-join guilds. There’s just one caveat to this. It must be linked to the account, not the name. Otherwise they’ll be back in 6 months and whoever picks up the old name will be blocked instead

In fact, if it can be done to block by player (not name) then this would be useful for all guilds, not just auto-join. Cause you’ll never be able to keep track of players that change names unless you have a open conversation with them and that only lasts 60 days before the message gets deleted. So unless you have a conversation marked Important that every member comments on once with their current username......
Tried to briefly integrate your comment into the details section.
 

The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
One thing that would stop a lot of these repeat offenders would be to move the threads that attract them to the social section. That way they would not have open access to them. One guild I know leaves one swap thread in the guild section for any trolls and guild hoppers to add their GBs to as some can be sniped for a profit. Apart from that thread The guild section is kept for info type threads so are of no value to trolls.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
Apply function requires active recruiting, unless you are a big/famous guild.
No it doesn't. Those players that just step into your guild now, will first have to apply. They are the active ones, not you. You already have what you are looking for.
 

The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
Which defeats the purpose of having a guild section
Guild section is a good one stop shop for fast needed Info that members need regarding GE, GBG and GvG. But of no value to trolls. In a busy guild swap threads, etc can easily bury those threads. but if they are in the social section trolls have no access to them. But the good thing about the new message system is that guilds can set it up to suit their needs. What suits one might not suit another.
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
No it doesn't. Those players that just step into your guild now, will first have to apply. They are the active ones, not you. You already have what you are looking for.
Been there, done that... It did not work for us for years. We always had a quite solid/loyal, moderately active base group of a couple of dozen players. But, to go above that, you really need to be a salesman unless you already have a few super-big-shot players in your team to attract other players. Number of people applications were always super low. Also, the active recruiting efforts usually didn't have much better return. Since we opened our doors, we tripled our number of members. There is a bigger flux of incoming and outgoing players, but our base keeps growing in number and strength. Plus, it is more fun to interact with more people. We were about to shut down the guild after ~3 years of application-only system, now we prosper with open doors. I am sure once you hit 80 members and become a top-tier guild, application- or invitation-join is the feasible way. But until then, open doors rock! We just need a more effective way to protect us from spammers.
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
Guild section is a good one stop shop for fast needed Info that members need regarding GE, GBG and GvG. But of no value to trolls. In a busy guild swap threads, etc can easily bury those threads. but if they are in the social section trolls have no access to them. But the good thing about the new message system is that guilds can set it up to suit their needs. What suits one might not suit another.
I LOVE the current Guild Threads. It was a mess to keep track of 10-20 threads in the social tab. It made the guild administration duties much simpler.
  1. We had to manually add all new joiners to all threads (Updating to all guild members does not work as some people prefer to be out of some threads).
  2. Then remove them when players leave.
  3. Unwanted threads could not be hidden. The only way was getting out of that thread. Now it should be possible to hide social threads as it is benefit of Tags.
Using social threads instead of the guild threads beats the (half) purpose of the guild threads!
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
The allowing name changes anytime for anyone was a bad idea. At most should have been once and once only forever. Not every six months.
Now bad actors can get a fresh start on harming every six months.
I would still be glad about the time period of 6 months. Not perfect, but, much better than weekly trolls.
 

The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
Have you tried doing it in stages. Have an open door until you get up to 50 then close it. After a couple of weeks kick out the ones that are red dots in Admin and those who do not do and GE or GBG or never respond. Spend a week or so helping those who are worth it to fit in and feel part of the guild. Look at your membership number then open the door again until you have added about 20 more. then close again. OK it will take time but this can work.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
Been there, done that... It did not work for us for years. We always had a quite solid/loyal, moderately active base group of a couple of dozen players. But, to go above that, you really need to be a salesman unless you already have a few super-big-shot players in your team to attract other players. Number of people applications were always super low. Also, the active recruiting efforts usually didn't have much better return. Since we opened our doors, we tripled our number of members. There is a bigger flux of incoming and outgoing players, but our base keeps growing in number and strength. Plus, it is more fun to interact with more people. We were about to shut down the guild after ~3 years of application-only system, now we prosper with open doors. I am sure once you hit 80 members and become a top-tier guild, application- or invitation-join is the feasible way. But until then, open doors rock! We just need a more effective way to protect us from spammers.
You tripled your number of members and you tripled your number of problems. It is a problem you can fix yourself, but that means that you and your Guild need to be more active. Rather than picking up that challenge, you want Inno to fix it for you. As a player I do not like these type of ideas. Every guild has the same opportunities. Guilds more active than yours would be at a disadvantage because of this.
 

The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
It was a mess to keep track of 10-20 threads in the social tab.
I agree about the mess of swap threads. and never use them now. Having a couple of 1.9 threads is so much cleaner and faster. Although a couple of swap threads for those who like to use them for low level GBs. is OK. .
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
Have you tried doing it in stages. Have an open door until you get up to 50 then close it. After a couple of weeks kick out the ones that are red dots in Admin and those who do not do and GE or GBG or never respond. Spend a week or so helping those who are worth it to fit in and feel part of the guild. Look at your membership number then open the door again until you have added about 20 more. then close again. OK it will take time but this can work.
I do a weekly administration run. Usually a few players get messages per week:
  • Remind/warn players when they don't meet guild requirement.
  • Ask if everything is ok in RL.
  • Teach if they don't know some aspects of the game.
  • Kick out repetitive rule-benders who want to be in for benefits but not want to be part of the team. My idea would help with those players as well. Keeping a locked exception thread is an option too. But I imagine the list can go long and things can start getting cumbersome to do manually. We don't keep such a list, as usually/mostly those players do not come back unless they want to be part of the team. Anyways, we would still probably need to close our doors even if we had the list.
Now we are around 60+, but ~50 solid members. Even with open doors, it takes time to build up a team. I guess you are at a top-tier guild where players queue up to join. Life on this side of the fence/wall is different.
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
You tripled your number of members and you tripled your number of problems. It is a problem you can fix yourself, but that means that you and your Guild need to be more active. Rather than picking up that challenge, you want Inno to fix it for you. As a player I do not like these type of ideas. Every guild has the same opportunities. Guilds more active than yours would be at a disadvantage because of this.
We do have a decent number of leaders. However, I admit that it is hard to find super motivated and active players to do administrative tasks. So, we try to manage things with the limited resources we have. Not everybody is as talented as yourself to attract hardworking players to the team.
I don't want Inno to work for me. I just offer an idea to improve our game experience/fun as a guild. I already laid down my arguments on why we enjoy open doors over closed. If you would like to point out other aspects that I missed in my post or in my following replies, I am happy to address/discuss.
If I start thinking in your hat, hardworking guilds never needed amazing features like Guild Threads, Thread Tags, Auto Fights, Auto Aids, Auto Collections etc. But, here we are. Based on such developments done for lazy guys like myself, I think Inno wants us to have more fun per unit time rather than spending our fun time on more and more housekeeping tasks.
 
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The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
Life on this side of the fence/wall is different.
Am on both sides. One top guild on the live servers. One dead guild on Beta that I have woken up. (I play under my original game name there still) LOL even one of the founder has started playing again, and made me a leader. but the other 2 are red dots. Kicked out around 30 deadbeats over the last month or so and closed the door at 50 members. We are now getting on well in GE and in and out of diamond league in GBG. With 2 or three really keen new members and the rest beginning to realize they could have fun with this game. On Beta with it being international there is the added problem of players who do not speak English. We have members from USA, UK, Canada, Netherlands, Germany, Russia, Syria, Venezuela And still some unknown. Did find guilds for a couple of German and Italian guys. Thing is I do not want to be so active myself in Beta. So once There is a team of good members that can take on the leadership rolls. I will move onto quiet pastures LOL. but for now we will probably open the doors again after next GE has started. A couple have even asked about GvG but I will NOT be introducing them to GvG even though it is still my main love in this game.
 
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