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Forwarded Allow Open-Door Guilds to Maintain a Friendly Community

Would you like the idea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 82.6%
  • No

    Votes: 4 17.4%

  • Total voters
    23

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
I agree about the mess of swap threads. and never use them now. Having a couple of 1.9 threads is so much cleaner and faster. Although a couple of swap threads for those who like to use them for low level GBs. is OK. .
Exactly. I have never used public swap threads (OK, maybe a few times to try out), and I always try to discourage people from using them. I always advertise x1.90 or even private swaps if you have you swap... But, everyone enjoys the game on their own way and some players really stick with public swaps. As long as our GE, GBG, GvG, Trade, Communication, Unity, Fun policies match, I am happy to play with Swappers, but definitely not Spammers!
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
LOL even one of the founder has started playing again, and made me a leader. but the other 2 are red dots. Kicked out around 30 deadbeats over the last month or so and closed the door at 50 members. We are now getting on well in GE and in and out of diamond league in GBG. Thing is I do not want to be so active myself in Beta. So once There is a team of good members that can take on the leadership rolls. I will move onto quiet pastures LOL. but for now we will probably open the doors again after next GE has started.
US Arvahall. Though I play from Switzerland and we have internationals too. Started almost 4 years ago and guild was like a year old. Slowly grew up on ranks. Now I am very close to be the top-total-point in the guild. We were always moderately active in GE. Now we are at the border of Diamond/Gold in GBG too. Like a year ago, the old-wise founder of the guild left as the guild was not getting almost any recruits. Top-total-point founder went to another guild because ours was dying. I took the control (we always have multiple founders and leaders, but not many to take over the responsibility/work). Opened up the doors. After a few months, the original founder started playing FoE again and joined back. Top-total-point founder is back again. We lost another couple of founders that I hope to bring at least one of them back to FoE again. Not only us, but our competition congratulates our growth as well! Again -> Open doors rock! We always keep them open since a while. I am fine if a player comes, collects a few fps on the Sticks to Brick thread and leaves. But Spammers... No!
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
We do have a decent number of leaders. However, I admit that it is hard to find super motivated and active players to do administrative tasks. So, we try to manage things with the limited resources we have. Not everybody is as talented as yourself to attract hardworking players to the team.
I don't want Inno to work for me. I just offer an idea to improve our game experience/fun as a guild. I already laid down my arguments on why we enjoy open doors over closed. If you would like to point out other aspects that I missed in my post or in my following replies, I am happy to address/discuss.
If I start thinking in your hat, hardworking guilds never needed amazing features like Guild Threads, Thread Tags, Auto Fights, Auto Aids, Auto Collections etc. But, here we are. Based on such developments done for lazy guys like myself, I think Inno wants us to have more fun per unit time rather than spending our fun time on more and more housekeeping tasks.
The way I see it, Inno came up with 3 types of getting new guild members. I am sure they feel this is balanced. I think your suggestion would disrupt that balance. Look at this from another view point. If you bring this into the game, what would be the reason for every guild not to start using this? No more inviting, no more applications. Every Guild can start an open door policy. Players you do not want in your Guild, you immediately kick and block. It will bring an end to recruiting.
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
If you bring this into the game, what would be the reason for every guild not to start using this? No more inviting, no more applications. Every Guild can start an open door policy. Players you do not want in your Guild, you immediately kick and block. It will bring an end to recruiting.
  1. Public Relations (PR). If you start kicking out and banning players for no reason, you would be a troll yourself. I would not stay in a guild like that. You would get lots of negativity around you. Trolls need a guild too, so they can hang out together.
  2. You can already block your guild to others. Application and Invitation schemes. Open doors is already an option.
  3. If a guild is too strong, and they have people in queue to join, they can select the most prominent ones among applicants. Which is already the reality for the top-tier guilds. So, why would they open the doors? What would be the benefit for top-tier guilds to open the doors?
  4. Exception list is not automated. So, guilds can still allow spammers/trolls to join whenever they want by simply not using it. I don't judge. Though, you admit that most of the open-door guilds would use it.
  5. I can already kick players that I don't want in my guild. As long as I keep the doors open, they can come back weekly, and I can kick them again. There is just some housekeeping involved in the process. Some negative vibes fly around until things come back to normal state.
  6. The solution you offer (Application/Invitation) comes with other drawbacks. It did not work for us. I explained why we would like to keep doors open.
  7. Just because trolls exist. We should not have to switch to a game mode that did not work very well for us for ~3 years. Or suffer trolls.
  8. The game mechanic I offer would encourage players to be more respectful, nice to others, mindful and considerate. Because if they don't, they risk not being able to come back again. I am perfectly fine to suffer 1 trolling per player.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
1. Top Guilds do not need PR
2. If that is so there is no reason to change it.
3. Cause none of them have 80 members
4. How long do you think it will take before a list will appear with players you should block?
5 Then kick them and keep kicking them.
6. Not a reason to change a working mechanic
7. Players that play the game according to the rules are not trolls. If they break game rules Contact Support.
8. Why wouild they care if they can come back again? According to you they are trolls. Trolls with feelings?

You do not have to convince me. I think it brings unbalance, so that's why I am against it, but that is just one vote. Not a tiebreaker.
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
1. Top Guilds do not need PR
2. I have multiple reasons explained in previous post/replies.
3. Cause none of them have 80 members
4. How long do you think it will take before a list will appear with players you should block?
5 Then kick them and keep kicking them.
6. Not a reason to change a working mechanic
7. Players that play the game according to the rules are not trolls. If they break game rules Contact Support.
8. Why wouild they care if they can come back again? According to you they are trolls. Trolls with feelings?

You do not have to convince me. I think it brings unbalance, so that's why I am against it, but that is just one vote. Not a tiebreaker.
1. But wanna-be top-tier guilds may still need.
2. This statement was to suggest that my idea may not disturb the balance of the game negatively as you think. (Not really a reason for the change)
3. It is by choice. They keep 2-3 spots for a few of associates to move across sister or franchising guilds. This is even more argument not to open the doors.
4. My proposal clearly prevents guild admins adding anyone arbitrarily to the list. Only players who have already been in the guild and left/kicked out within the last week (or day) can be added. What type of evil kicks out players for no reason? There must be a dedicated circle in hell for those.
5. That is not fun. I play FoE for fun. GE, GBG, PvP, GvG, Conquests, GBs, Trades, Social interactions... These are fun. Housekeeping is not fun (for me and my guild).
6. With no change comes no improvement...
7. Someone who joins my guild, posts dozens of spam messages across all our guild threads and then leaves a mess for me to clean is a troll in my dictionary. Inno rules may disagree with me (it is not black and white, more in shades of gray). I doubt such behavior will get attention in support as it is not clearly cheating as there may or may not be any material gain but only emotional exchange (Troll gets happier, KW get sadder...).
8. How else are they gonna be trolling around if they cannot come back to the guild where their trolling is not welcome? So they are interested to come back in. Trolls feed on trolling.

I know. I enjoy high quality intellectual discussions and thank you for the chance :) Others can benefit from these open forum discussions too. I think these discussions bring more perspective/depth to the original post/idea. Then, people can see different arguments and give a more informed decision.
 

CDmark

Active Member
I like the idea, sort of reminds me of "ignore", which I have never used but it is there. I have gone guild surfing before, sniping and taking trades, ones that would benefit me. Since it was a feature of the game, I did it, why not. There are a few I have seen that do it as a game play style, basically have 2 home guilds, and guild surf when switching. I like the idea of a guild being open for others because it does help out players that just want to join a guild, see how it goes.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
1 Wanna-be-top-tier guilds will never get the chance. Just like any other part of the game, top tier guilds will twist it to their advantage and profit more.
2. -
3. Your main world, top guilds, 4,5,6,7,8 and 10 have way less. No choice there. Same for most worlds.
4. No it doesn't. Those admins will share a list of who you can put on it.
5. If fun is all you are after you would not make a problem of "trolls". They can be fun as well.
6. Guess we disagree on what improvement is.
7. It gets attention, depending on the messages. What you are saying now is you need help with your censorship.
8. Kick them fast enough and there will be no fun for them.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
Top Guilds do not need PR
I disagree. It does depend on the specific world and server as to whether any other guilds in there are bothering with PR in the first place, but a top guild that stops PR is a guild that is at risk of no longer being a top guild. It’s the reason you still see top brands in the real world advertise: they got to the top, now they need to maintain being at the top.
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
1 Wanna-be-top-tier guilds will never get the chance. Just like any other part of the game, top tier guilds will twist it to their advantage and profit more.
2. -
3. Your main world, top guilds, 4,5,6,7,8 and 10 have way less. No choice there. Same for most worlds.
4. No it doesn't. Those admins will share a list of who you can put on it.
5. If fun is all you are after you would not make a problem of "trolls". They can be fun as well.
6. Guess we disagree on what improvement is.
7. It gets attention, depending on the messages. What you are saying now is you need help with your censorship.
8. Kick them fast enough and there will be no fun for them.
1. Top ranking guilds attract players because they are successful and if you are in you are kind of successful too. The rankings also change over time. I am not claiming because of PR. But they cannot always twist everything to their benefit. Which makes your argument not 100% true. I fail to understand how kicking out players and not letting them back in for no reason can help the guild. Though, the focus is not kicking out, which is already possible. But, not letting them back into auto-join guilds (only when opted in) (application- invitation-guilds already have that opportunity). It looks like chance-equality from this perspective.
3. And other numbers in your list? Like, Top 3 (74, 72, 77)? I collected more data for you. US Servers: 19/27 world's number 1 guild has 70 or more players. Exceptions: F 67 (2nd 79), G 66 (2nd 26 wow, 3rd 80), K 66 (2nd 80), L 67 (2nd 69), K 52 (2nd 80), P 62 (2nd 69), R 55 (2nd 74), AA 34 wow (2nd 59). There are exceptionally successful guilds with much lower than 80 players. But, the data supports my argument: Having more members is important (not a must). A meaningful explanation for choosing not to have ~70-80 members is the lack of suitable applicants for whatever that guild's membership sky-level standards are. Or they may don't care about optimizing some numbers to be the number 1 guild (e.g. like our guild, we don't aim to be the number 1, not that we can...). Or they (e.g. AA number 1) are much much much better than everyone else and being 80 is already too easy for them and they want to be handicapped to have more fun in the competition (GBG, GvG etc.). Having more members gives more power in GbG, GvG etc assuming new recruits are in the guild average. At least it was the case for us. Hence, I would like to be able to recruit players to my under the radar guild. So far open doors is the best strategy that worked for us.
4. I think my proposal and your understanding of it do not match. I will try rewording: You cannot add anyone arbitrarily to the proposed Exception list (like sending invitations). But, you can only add players (i) who have been in the guild and (ii) who has left or got kicked out in the last week (or day) (e.g. there can be a dropdown menu to suggest/show addable players). If the game does not allow adding arbitrary players to the list, you cannot. Only if the game allows you to put that player in the list, admins can decide to add those players to the list or let them come back again freely. I don't understand what admins are sharing. I see in the forum, people sometimes share names of troublemakers. The system I propose does not allow a random player to be added to the exception list.
5. Then play with them yourself. They are not fun to me in this context.
6. Agree to disagree.
7. Inno support is quite awesome. I can already censor everyone by closing the guild doors and letting only selected ones (the type of arbitrary censorship that you are trying to avoid). The game already allows it through housekeeping. But, invitation-, application- ways force us to play in a way that we failed for ~3 years. My idea still gives everyone a chance to be part of our guild by just clicking the auto-join button. My idea also gives us a chance to protect us from trolls who repeatedly want to cause a useless mess just to annoy us. If you wish, you may see it as a middle ground (just a tiny step closer to application-only) between auto-join and application-only.
8. I neither use automated bots to kick spammers/trolls to cover every second of 24 hours, nor we have enough human resources (or will) to do so. A troll can randomly join, do all the damage in 1 minute and get out. It can already be too late when I see the refresh on my screen. Then cleaning begins...
 
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KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
I like the idea, sort of reminds me of "ignore", which I have never used but it is there. I have gone guild surfing before, sniping and taking trades, ones that would benefit me. Since it was a feature of the game, I did it, why not. There are a few I have seen that do it as a game play style, basically have 2 home guilds, and guild surf when switching. I like the idea of a guild being open for others because it does help out players that just want to join a guild, see how it goes.
We never use guild-only trades. It is all fair rates and public. I mostly appreciate guild hoppers. They come, aid, trade, fill x1.90, sometimes make friends and leave. The only inconvenience is when guild-hoppers snipe. Sniping happens in the neighborhood, so we always have to be careful anyways. And I don't mind if one of my GBs get sniped once in a while. I can always snipe neighborhood to make up loses. The proposed feature can/may increase the number of open-door guilds, which could lead to more guilds to hop. On the other hand, you can get banned if you snipe many GBs. Guild-hopping and trolling are not the same.
Added your Ignore analogy to the Details sections.
 
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thekyle

Member
I like the idea. Guilds that want to be open shouldn't be being punished for it by players working in bad faith.

A simple solution to the issue of a guild gaining bad reputation for doing this or people creating a list of those to be blocked is simply making this feature only accessible if the player in question has been booted from the guild. So no one can block someone before they joined their guild or if they just left for other reasons, and only activated by a founder.

As stated above, if a guild is going to just start using it as a ban hammer and make its reputation as one that kicks and blocks people ruthlessly, it would be easy enough to decide not to join them.
 

KRraNKeNWaGeN

New Member
Ping (of active watching). This is my first post. I checked rules, but, I may still miss something. I guess I am just supposed to wait for more interest at this stage. I could not see any further actions needed from me. But, if it is the case, I will try to do asap.