An Abuse of the Forum ?

[RazorbackPirate]

it's such a shame we live in a world were people give up so easily. But for some of us who actually care about the game, we have decided to make the effort now

Thank you for that virtue signal. Of course I don't care about the game, I just play it every day.

They've heard you, your issues are being addressed, and you're seeing improvements. Again, I ask. What more do you hope to achieve by making a repeat thread here? How does that achieve the result faster? Once the lift (elevator) is on it's way, no amount of pushing the button is going to make it arrive faster. It might make you feel better, but it's not going to make the doors open any faster.

 

[DeletedUser3882]

TL/DR
Okay people.... I posted on a couple of the “closed” threads, I support improvements to GvG 100%, but let’s play Devils Advocate here and instead of wholesale bashing and blaming Inno, let’s look at some issues and try to provide some solutions if you want it fixed! Otherwise it just looks like you’re trolling the forums. This is not a *one* player problem and I don’t think it’s a Inno problem either. Everyone needs to stop thinking about *me* for a sec and put on your “Big picture” glasses and look at the total landscape and see what’s really going on.

I’ve been waiting on a post like this, not to call you out, but it identifies a major issue with online games in general.

You are acting like this is 1999 with ultra slow connections. This is 2018. Everything is fast now, except gvg of course.

Let’s look at facts:
Best I can gather via quick google looksee, the FCC identifies “broadband” access as 25mps download/3mps upload. (I think I recall a news report that they recently updated this figure, but I couldn’t find it... regardless...)
At current review 66% of American population is *without* access to fixed broadband access. If you’re in a major metro area, you know that these speeds are insufficient what with gigabit this and fiber that, but that is the guideline used by the gov’t to provide internet access to the masses.
In the same report, some 88-92% of the population currently has access to “mobile broadband” speeds classified as 10mbps/2mbps. That’s good for facebooking, maybe some SD movie streaming, but maybe not so much for intense recalc sieging with a few thousand of your closest buds across various worlds simultaneously.

It stands to reason that there is a large player base accessing and playing the game (including GvG) the only way they can may that be via mobile directly (I have used puffin at various times), a shared connection via their mobile (I use this daily at work), or a dedicated mobile hotspot (I have had one of these at my home, on the road planted in my work vehicle, etc...)

This is just U.S. Again, best I could gather, numbers are worse in Europe.

Why do the anti-gvgers have a problem with people raising issues that are clearly affecting the game? I just want mine to work properly, especially with the rig I have set-up, 90 mbps average speed, it can handle high performance games far more complex than gvg. Yet GVG performs poorly. It's not me, that's for sure.

Good, great! Awesome! The problem is *not* you! Check that one off the list. But the problem may, and is more likely, your guildmate/enemy/nemesis/ally who doesn’t have a beefy rig with too much RAM, a super fast processor, graphics card with liquid cooling, and is trying to jump in and click the “add defense” button while fanning the smoke away from shoveling coal into his antiquated rig!

There are A LOT of variables to take into consideration and at some point it is no longer Inno’s responsibility. Where does that responsibility end? Where is the line drawn? Are they responsible for sending the packets of data from the server, OR are they 100% responsible for those packets from the servers in Miami, through the ISPs, through your modem, through your router, all the way to your Ethernet connection?

I don’t think so and at some point, the players have to take some responsibility and ensure they have an adequate computer meeting minimum system specs like you have.

What about your modem/router?!? Have you gone in and changed default ISP settings and tweaked them to get the most out of your connection? There’s another variable that the vast majority has not done, nor lacks the knowledge (or confidence to not break something) to do.

 

[DeletedUser3882]

Piggybacking to break this up...

You mentioned 1999 and dialup. Before that, it was ASCII and a DB9, 15, or 25-pin serial port connection.

The point here is that the data remains the same 1s and 0s. The programming is a bit different, it moves faster and at higher bandwidths, but the packets of data are formulated the same way. They are much like a paragraph with a preamble/preface, a subject and a conclusion.

The actual pinouts on your Ethernet connector are basically the same as those old phone jacks and DB9s as well.

The packet is sent with a preamble staying “ready to send” to tell the end user a message is coming, end user replys a “ready to receive”. Server sends data message with a handy “message end; acknowledge” conclusion. End user sends a “message recieved; it is acknowledged” signal.

This occurs for *every* change/update/refresh of the data. Bottlenecks do occur and taking my previous post into consideration, this is primarily what occurs during recalc sieges (or should I say *resieges* when everyone is locked up).

Is it a server problem?? I think Innos servers function quite well with the amount of players online at a given time (mobile included) and all of the data it’s handling with all of the various 4/8/24 hr boosts/shields et al. It *could* be...

It also *could* be some dullard with substandard connection and antiquated PC sitting there constantly hitting the “add defense” button until the siege is broken. Getting lucky beating everyone to the punch. From a data standpoint, the server is waiting on that “acknowledge” signal before it updates and refreshes everyone else’s data and allows another siege to be placed.

Again, is that Inno’s problem? Is it their responsibility? What can you or they do about it?!?

That is the problem, and that is the question that you can focus on and find a solution for.

All this other mess is typical complaining, whining, bashing Inno and yes, the threads should be shut down for anything other. They are doing what they can, and what can reasonably be expected when looking at the larger picture/grand scale.

The other options have been brought up before. Reduce the data best they can. Reduce the graphics load until it looks like an old game of Pong. Would that help?!?

 

[DeletedUser33179]

Inno has already acknowledged in the forums that there are indeed GvG issues & that they are committed to addressing them...


July 11, 2018 announcement "GvG issues"
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/gvg-issues.23451/

We are aware that GvG currently has some issues. We are looking into these issues and will be diving deeply in the next weeks. We are confident that GvG will be restored to its former beauty (or even improved!) in the future. In the meantime, we apologize for any inconvenience you may encounter.

Your Forge of Empires Team


And what else does Inno have to work on for the remainder of this year? Lets see. Fall Event, Halloween Event, Winter Event, 2 more Historical Questlines Events (or is it 3), HTML transition, next portion of VF. And all the other bug fixes, etc. You folks have the luxury of focusing solely on the GvG aspect of the game. Inno does not.

From a business standpoint, Events take priority, as they're huge money makers & must occur at predetermined dates. Getting all aspects of HTML working smoothly & with stability should rank equal to or only slightly less than Events, as Flash ends very soon now (next year?). It's a requirement for continuing this game on PC - you know, that interface that only GvG can be played on.

I've read all 13-15+ pages of your 2 threads on EN server. At one point, someone states that they also got the attention of someone higher up the Inno ladder.

So what does your group continue to do? Spend 90% of your energy & forum posts whining on multiple servers being confrontational that fixes aren't happening, that GvG is the only thing keeping FOE going, your play style choice is by far the most important aspect of this game, & planning a potential boycott of GvG to show Inno how serious you are (but maybe for only a couple days, as you'd really hate to lose even 1 sector to a guild that didn't want to boycott). What a friggin waste of your time (& mine in having read all of it).

Inno's acknowledged in forum & directly to someone in your group that they're committed to fixes/upgrades. Whether you folks care to acknowledge it or not, the it's now time to stop acting like self-centered whiners & game revolutionaries, stomping your feet & demanding that things change Now!! (which is exactly how your previos threads on this & EN forums are presented by you).

Shift your focus. Start actively contributing, in detail, to the planned fixes. Try having a thread that only focuses on gather info/data on exact individual problems, including browser(s) used & frequency of occurrences. Group them into those that slow down play a tiny bit, those the slow down play significantly, those that completely stop play, those that are merely an annoyance, etc. Be through & honest. If all your group says is that it's all equally terrible - which it's not - then you will have deserved what you eventually get. Inno will simply rank their order of fixes how they see fit, which would most likely begin with those having easiest/shortest fix time. Wouldn't you rather have them fix what you identify as the 2-3 most debilitating issues 1st?

 

[DeletedUser3882]

+1 @Clara Osgood

Yes. Everyone wants to complain, everyone wants to be taken seriously, everyone wants priority and be listened to, everyone wants to feel special. That’s not a complaint. That’s just human nature.

From a problem solving point of view, a list of complaints/problems are good as a step 1. Check. Done that.

Let’s move on to step 2. Collect data and try to find where the problems occur. You all have come together en force and posted across multiple threads and forums to voice your complaints. Do the same and gather up all of the data to provide it to support. Hopefully this will help them identify what the larger issues are and prioitize the fixes that they can reasonably address.

Solutions will come after this step.

With all of this stated, can the OP @Rincewind1 edit the title of this thread vs waiting on the last “closed” one to be reopened with 4 or so responses on it?!? I do not see where any “abuse” of anything has/have/had occurred.

@Panacea @Snowbelle @Dursland
Or can the moderators who have chimed in do it?!? If the thread is going to be reopened, I would think a running list would be best vs multiple threads. Pick one and go with it but change the negative connotation attached to this or remove *it*.

 

[DeletedUser3882]

And as I've said before, many if not most of the problems stem from the cookie cutter way guilds/players do GvG. Most fighting at the same time every day. Setting multiple sieges simultaneously. Why Inno has to always get bashed instead of the guilds/players doing what they can to alleviate the issues is beyond me.

It's like the old joke.
Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."
Doctor: "Don't do that."

One of my suggestions was/is to simply change the actions of the defense shield. It is stated as being “24 hrs” but in reality it is until the next recalc hence the practice of dropping a sector 2 seconds before recalc, setting siege and reacquiring it seconds after recalc.

Change this to an actual 24 hours after the sector is acquired. With all of the various hour’ed boosts, shields, etc currently in effect elsewhere in the game for each player, surely the server can handle tracking various sectors with differing shield times remaining. Initially, I would expect things to be the same/similar, but over a period of time, I see it being akin to RQ collection complaints where it takes you an extra x minutes to get everything, collection times are way off by end of week and open to plunder while one try’s to reset their times.

Recalc issue *somewhat* resolved with a more open sector acquisition game

 

[DeletedUser36301]

I would like to point out the whole idea of starting this thread has never been about bashing Inno, in fact 100% the opposite, what we do on the En server is update the forum of what issues players have experienced that day/night in GvG, in the hope this may help to provide a pattern and be of some assistance to Inno.

 

[DeletedUser]

I would like to point out the whole idea of starting this thread has never been about bashing Inno, in fact 100% the opposite, what we do on the En server is update the forum of what issues players have experienced that day/night in GvG, in the hope this may help to provide a pattern and be of some assistance to Inno.

Given that they've acknowledged the problems and have stated that they are working on them, and the fact that you have posted all of this already, which they have also acknowledged, this statement of yours is disingenuous. And the fact that you all have started at least 3 threads here in addition to the one there also contradicts you. If you merely want Inno to work on the problems, THEY ARE. If you merely want to "help" Inno by providing data, then one thread on one server would serve that purpose. But quit trying to tell us that you're not bashing Inno when you most certainly are.

 

[DeletedUser3882]

I would like to point out the whole idea of starting this thread has never been about bashing Inno, in fact 100% the opposite, what we do on the En server is update the forum of what issues players have experienced that day/night in GvG, in the hope this may help to provide a pattern and be of some assistance to Inno.

Yes. Good job. Do not disagree. Keep doing it, but what is suggested is to provide further data. The complaints are known about, 10fold, 1000fold. They are aware. There is a format currently available when you open a support ticket via the settings menu in browser. It asks that you provide browser version/specs, PC information, operating system, etc and I would further add ISP information as well (Current upload/dL speeds, router/modem version/ Fw version, etc...)

The complaints are monumental in sheer numbers, but Inno can’t do a thing for outdated versions of winblows, trying to play via dialup, chrome browser use with no updates (or a crippling add-on), old versions of adobe flash, using html5 on an unsupported browser, *THIS* list goes on and on unfortunately with the hundreds of thousands of players worldwide.

That is my, and others’, point. How do you even know that the entire system isn’t being affected by an ignoramous who took a 10 year old PC which doesn’t meet system specs for even Windows *mellenium edition*, installed windows 10 on it via some backdoor method, and is sitting there waiting on a 30 minute load time just to hit the siege button.

Do they implement a system of checks and balances via a one button system/speed check to ensure minimum performance is met before you can access it?!? Do they need to? That’s another possible solution. Propose that and see where it goes.

<See what I did there?!? Offered two solutions now amidst the mountainous complaints. But that’s not needed quite yet without supporting data.>

 

[DeletedUser3882]

Beating a dead horse here, but you all have the numbers evidently, you have the motivation, you have the time available, you are many and I’m but one.

Take your efforts and direct them in a helpful way, not to say you’re not helping in trying to identify patterns. I am saying that those efforts could/would be better if directed in a slightly different direction. “Patterns” are helpful but only to a certain degree. They can identify what, if anything occurred on their server at such and such time and date when this thing happened. With more data, they *could also* identify any re-occurring themes (or patterns) in a particular browser, or service pack/security update, or any other relatable PC gaming aspect.


Help them out with mounds of data to look at and they may *offically* conclude a number of things that you have invariably seen many times:
• Firefox (just for example) is not recommended for GvG use.
• Do not use less than windows 7 if attempting to acces this feature.
•recommended that you have minimum speeds of xxx to ensure proper gameplay

So on. So forth. Currently there is only minimum system specs listed somewhere for *game play*. Not GvG.

Edit: the above are mere examples with no data to support them, however, ARE age old suggestions for *the game* itself. Firefox, Opera, and Chrome *are* officially supported for html5. Are they for GvG? Dunno... Collect some data and find out!

 

[DeletedUser33297]

TL/DR
Okay people.... I posted on a couple of the “closed” threads, I support improvements to GvG 100%, but let’s play Devils Advocate here and instead of wholesale bashing and blaming Inno, let’s look at some issues and try to provide some solutions if you want it fixed! Otherwise it just looks like you’re trolling the forums. This is not a *one* player problem and I don’t think it’s a Inno problem either. Everyone needs to stop thinking about *me* for a sec and put on your “Big picture” glasses and look at the total landscape and see what’s really going on.

I’ve been waiting on a post like this, not to call you out, but it identifies a major issue with online games in general.



Let’s look at facts:
Best I can gather via quick google looksee, the FCC identifies “broadband” access as 25mps download/3mps upload. (I think I recall a news report that they recently updated this figure, but I couldn’t find it... regardless...)
At current review 66% of American population is *without* access to fixed broadband access. If you’re in a major metro area, you know that these speeds are insufficient what with gigabit this and fiber that, but that is the guideline used by the gov’t to provide internet access to the masses.
In the same report, some 88-92% of the population currently has access to “mobile broadband” speeds classified as 10mbps/2mbps. That’s good for facebooking, maybe some SD movie streaming, but maybe not so much for intense recalc sieging with a few thousand of your closest buds across various worlds simultaneously.

It stands to reason that there is a large player base accessing and playing the game (including GvG) the only way they can may that be via mobile directly (I have used puffin at various times), a shared connection via their mobile (I use this daily at work), or a dedicated mobile hotspot (I have had one of these at my home, on the road planted in my work vehicle, etc...)

This is just U.S. Again, best I could gather, numbers are worse in Europe.


Good, great! Awesome! The problem is *not* you! Check that one off the list. But the problem may, and is more likely, your guildmate/enemy/nemesis/ally who doesn’t have a beefy rig with too much RAM, a super fast processor, graphics card with liquid cooling, and is trying to jump in and click the “add defense” button while fanning the smoke away from shoveling coal into his antiquated rig!

There are A LOT of variables to take into consideration and at some point it is no longer Inno’s responsibility. Where does that responsibility end? Where is the line drawn? Are they responsible for sending the packets of data from the server, OR are they 100% responsible for those packets from the servers in Miami, through the ISPs, through your modem, through your router, all the way to your Ethernet connection?

I don’t think so and at some point, the players have to take some responsibility and ensure they have an adequate computer meeting minimum system specs like you have.

What about your modem/router?!? Have you gone in and changed default ISP settings and tweaked them to get the most out of your connection? There’s another variable that the vast majority has not done, nor lacks the knowledge (or confidence to not break something) to do.

Damn...That right there is a fine example of a well thought out, well informed, well researched statement of facts, theories and opinions.
Thank you @heybo, you made my day.

 

[DeletedUser3882]

Damn...That right there is a fine example of a well thought out, well informed, well researched statement of facts, theories and opinions.
Thank you @heybo, you made my day.

Thank you, mind you I’m only thinking of the “above casual gamer” who *should* know a hardline, direct Ethernet connection provides the best, reliable experience.

Let’s double all that and open another thread for those won’t be inconvenienced with a chord and only using WiFi!

Do they have a high-dollar quad-channel gaming router to go along with that impressive, neon glowy liquid cooling?? With settings properly optimized to get the fastest ping speeds to the Miami server?

Or are they using that outdated combo modem/router/wifi access point/cd player/toaster thing they got from their ISP years ago when they upgraded from dialup?

 

[Agent327]

Unfortunately the reason threads like ours don't last long is because of all the negative responses as above, it's such a shame we live in a world were people give up so easily.
But for some of us who actually care about the game, we have decided to make the effort now, as LSB has already stated following a recent server adjustment we have seen some positive improvement in a couple of the GvG issues, we still have some way to go to get it fluid.

And here I was thinking the reason they do not last long is you keep repeating the same over and over again.

You care so much about the game that you spam Support by sending in the same GvG bugs over and over again and by that making it for Support a lot hatrder to help playrs that really need it.

I would like to point out the whole idea of starting this thread has never been about bashing Inno, in fact 100% the opposite, what we do on the En server is update the forum of what issues players have experienced that day/night in GvG, in the hope this may help to provide a pattern and be of some assistance to Inno.

Total BS. If that was the case you would collect all the info and offer that to Inno. What you do is trying to get the spotlight on every forum and medium you get to try to force Inno to do what you want.

 

[DeletedUser]

Why do the anti-gvgers have a problem with people raising issues that are clearly affecting the game?

Because this is the third thread they've started about it in the last couple of days, and we've heard it all ad nauseam for at least the 3 years I've been playing. I mean, if I were playing a game and the part that I liked best was messed up and not getting addressed after a few months I would find something else to do. And incidentally, these issues are only affecting a rather small minority of players in the game. Doesn't affect mobile players at all. Doesn't affect players in non-GvG guilds. Doesn't affect non-guild players. Doesn't affect guilds that avoid the big all out wars that the top few guilds on each world apparently have occasionally. Who does it affect? Players in hard-core GvG guilds that set multiple sieges right after recalc. That's it. I would hazard a guess that it's less than 5% of all players.

Oh, and just so you know, we're not anti-GvGers. We're anti-whiners and anti-spammers.

 

[DeletedUser21322]

+1 @Clara Osgood

Yes. Everyone wants to complain, everyone wants to be taken seriously, everyone wants priority and be listened to, everyone wants to feel special. That’s not a complaint. That’s just human nature.

From a problem solving point of view, a list of complaints/problems are good as a step 1. Check. Done that.

Let’s move on to step 2. Collect data and try to find where the problems occur. You all have come together en force and posted across multiple threads and forums to voice your complaints. Do the same and gather up all of the data to provide it to support. Hopefully this will help them identify what the larger issues are and prioitize the fixes that they can reasonably address.

Solutions will come after this step.

With all of this stated, can the OP @Rincewind1 edit the title of this thread vs waiting on the last “closed” one to be reopened with 4 or so responses on it?!? I do not see where any “abuse” of anything has/have/had occurred.

@Panacea @Snowbelle @Dursland
Or can the moderators who have chimed in do it?!? If the thread is going to be reopened, I would think a running list would be best vs multiple threads. Pick one and go with it but change the negative connotation attached to this or remove *it*.

Once a thread is closed we are unable to reopen it.

 

[DeletedUser28670]

Once a thread is closed we are unable to reopen it.

I am unsure of that fact.

Was the Tinytown thread not closed and moved to archived, and then unclosed?

 

[DeletedUser3882]

Once a thread is closed we are unable to reopen it.

Even so, can we edit the title of *this* thread ?!?

If not, then I vote to please close this one and the OP *group* can feel free to open one anew with less negativity aimed towards everyone here (ie staff/mods/managers/inno)

 

[BruteForceAttack]

Sorry didnt read 3 pages

Facts
1. GVG sucks at recalc, as there are lot of bugs.
2. GVG is a banked revenue stream for Inno. meaning in-spite of 1, Folks will spend time and $ on GVG. These are customers that Inno doesn't need to convince that they need to play/pay FOE. These customers will play/pay anyway becaues they want to outdo the other guild.
3. Inno is looking always for new revenue stream, they don't need to spend lot R&D efforts on 1 because of 2

Sooner you accept that GVG is not going to change much anytime sooner, the happier person you will be.

Hope that makes some sense.

 

[DeletedUser21322]

Even so, can we edit the title of *this* thread ?!?

If not, then I vote to please close this one and the OP *group* can feel free to open one anew with less negativity aimed towards everyone here (ie staff/mods/managers/inno)

The player who started the thread is able to change the title.

I am unsure of that fact.

Was the Tinytown thread not closed and moved to archived, and then unclosed?

I am unsure of this specific thread. Sorry

 

[DeletedUser33297]

I am unsure of that fact.

Was the Tinytown thread not closed and moved to archived, and then unclosed?

Based on my 15+ years working in, on, and around multiple website forums, one of which I own, anything done in a forum can be undone by SOMEONE who has sufficient privilages, be it a Mod, Staff, Admin or Owner. Nothing is ever deleted, it is normally archived just in case it's needed down the road. People will sue other people at the drop of a hat these days, and it pays to cover your a$$.