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[Guide] Analysis of Cape: number of days to reach break-even

DeletedUser27910

"Unless you're putting SoKs into storage to plant HS, this argument doesn't even make sense."

That's exactly the question that anyone considering building HS should want answered. HS takes up 42+ squares of space in your village. With SoKs you can use that space to generate 9-10 FPs a day. What exactly is the incentive to sink thousands of FPs into a HS when you can sit back and collect 9-10FPs a day and then use those FPs to level a different GB like cape or HC. How long will it take for HS to outproduce 9-10 SoKs? I'm guessing that a minimum of 95-98% of people in this game are better off not building HS and I'm starting to wonder who is better off building it.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
"Unless you're putting SoKs into storage to plant HS, this argument doesn't even make sense."

That's exactly the question that anyone considering building HS should want answered. HS takes up 42+ squares of space in your village. With SoKs you can use that space to generate 9-10 FPs a day. What exactly is the incentive to sink thousands of FPs into a HS when you can sit back and collect 9-10FPs a day and then use those FPs to level a different GB like cape or HC. How long will it take for HS to outproduce 9-10 SoKs? I'm guessing that a minimum of 95-98% of people in this game are better off not building HS and I'm starting to wonder who is better off building it.
Again, unless you're putting SoKs into storage to plant HS, this argument doesn't even make sense. Reread the rest of my previous post if you still don't get it.
 

DeletedUser27910

"I did the analysis for HS (and other FP-producing GBs) in this thread. It's the exact same model. You can take a look and decide."

I'm a bit confused by what you consider "break even". For HS you are showing level 55 and giving 10,953 as the amount of FPs. I assume that means the amount of FPs it takes to get to level 55. It coincides pretty well with what I was using which was somewhere in the 13,500 range for level 62. You also list 332 days as the break even time so I guess you're saying 332 days before a level 55 HS gets back the FPs you invested to get to level 55. That's all fine but it doesn't really address the question I'm concerned with. If you start HS at level 0 and compare it to the production of 9-10 SoKs, when does HS break even with the SoKs. If you level HS relatively quickly it does look like you could keep the break even time under 2 years.
 

DeletedUser27910

"Again, unless you're putting SoKs into storage to plant HS, this argument doesn't even make sense. Reread the rest of my previous post if you still don't get it."

Yes, I would have to pick up SoKs or something even more valuable if I wanted to build a HS.
 

ODragon

Well-Known Member
"Again, unless you're putting SoKs into storage to plant HS, this argument doesn't even make sense. Reread the rest of my previous post if you still don't get it."

Yes, I would have to pick up SoKs or something even more valuable if I wanted to build a HS.

I can't tell if you're being obstinate or really don't understand. He is saying that most people who are putting out the HS don't have 9-10 SoKs (or better) that the are replacing with an HS. They most likely have happiness buildings or something else that is removed to place the HS. With that version, you aren't factoring in the 9-10 FP daily FP because you weren't getting it from that space already.

In some versions of this math, placing the HS actually allows you to get rid of cultural buildings or decorations so you can get FP from the HS and have space to place a couple of SoKs.
 

DeletedUser27910

I don't really see where he said that, but regardless, if there is one thing you should take away from this part of the discussion it's that HS is an extremely poor source of FPs. I can't imagine why you would build HS over cape. Using HS for happiness is not a good idea. For one thing there are many buildings you can build that give happiness plus other important resources. But, much more important that this, if you move up in ages, your demand for happiness is going to increase but the amount of happiness you get from HS is going to stay the same.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
I don't really see where he said that, but regardless, if there is one thing you should take away from this part of the discussion it's that HS is an extremely poor source of FPs.
No. That is NOT the one thing anyone should be taking away from this. I said it right here. Apparently, you didn't read past the first sentence.
Unless you're putting SoKs into storage to plant HS, this argument doesn't even make sense. I built HS in HMA. From the moment it reached level 3, it has been the sole source of Happy in my city and I pushed it to level 10 prior to building my Arc. Now that my Arc is at 80, I'm pushing it to level 20, along with the rest of my existing GBs.

I first built HS for the Happy. It allowed me to delete the same number if squares of culture buildings and I got extra FPs as a bonus. Now I level HS for the FPs and get extra happy as a bonus. With HS I've also not yet built Alcatraz, saving me a ton of extra squares. Conversely, I've yet to build Cape even though I've been able to for a long while.

I'll build Cape eventually, but right now, FP GBs that provide other benefits are far more attractive to me. Including HS.
Using HS for happiness is not a good idea. For one thing there are many buildings you can build that give happiness plus other important resources. But, much more important that this, if you move up in ages, your demand for happiness is going to increase but the amount of happiness you get from HS is going to stay the same.
HS has provided me all the happy I've needed in my city since hitting level 3. I also put out all the many buildings I have that give happy plus other important resources like Attack bonuses or even FPs, you know, Cherry Gardens, Carnival sets, Carousels, etc. Any time I've needed to make up any happiness deficit, HS has gotten a few more levels and each time, I've gotten a few more FPs every day.

Yes, my happy requirements will continue to increase as I age up. As they do, I'll continue to level up HS plus put out any other special buildings I acquire that provide happiness along with other important resources. Any extra happy needed can easily be made up adding a few more levels to HS which gives me a few more FPs every day.

I have no goods buildings, no residential, no barracks, and because I've built HS, no culture. I've not yet needed to build Traz for either units or happy, so I still have plenty of space in my city to add additional SoKs, SSWs, and any other special buildings as I acquire them to produce FPs. PLUS, I have HS producing 12 FPs a day on top of all that happiness, and that makes me very happy.
I can't imagine why you would build HS over cape.
Cape has a fine ROI when taken in isolation and looking at FPs alone, but that's not how I evaluate things for my city. HS has provided benefits beyond FPs since the moment I built it eliminating all culture only buildings and HS has never had more than one tile of road touching it. I've never NOT put out a FP producer as I've gotten it because I built HS and there wasn't room. So, there was never a reason NOT to build HS, which I was also able to do long before I was ever able to build Cape.

I've yet to build Cape because, so far, there's been better places to invest my FPs, such as getting an Arc to level 80. That's helped power HS up to level 20, which now gives me 12 FPs every day. So now my efficient happiness producer that used to give me bonus FPs has now turned the tide to become an efficient FP producer that also gives me bonus happiness. This makes me even happier I built it long, long, ago.

I'll build Cape eventually, after other more valuable FP producers are built and leveled like AO, Kraken, and HC. Like HS, I'm building them first for their other benefits and getting the FPs on the side. I'll continue leveling both HS and CdM for those other benefits too, before I build Cape.

Eventually Cape will win my FPs, but until then, that bird stays in the hanger.
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
Here's the other side of the coin: I've never built the HS in any of my cities. The oldest is OF, the newest is Colonial. I can say almost the same thing as Razor: I have no goods buildings, no residentials, and no cultural buildings. I do have a Traz, so I usually have one barracks. I have a ton of SoKs, but I don't bother with SSWs as they aren't productive enough for me to make room for them. And I have a Cape; not in the Colonial city yet, but in all the others.

The difference is personal taste, of course, and what you're looking for from your city. There are many buildings, even some GBs, that are more useful the newer your city is, and that become rather obsolete as you advance. I mostly view the HS that way, although its size can be hard to manage when your city is young. Many players, like Razor, swear by it. Many others, like me, avoid it like the plague. It's all about your own goals.
 

Snarko

Active Member
I don't really see where he said that, but regardless, if there is one thing you should take away from this part of the discussion it's that HS is an extremely poor source of FPs. I can't imagine why you would build HS over cape. Using HS for happiness is not a good idea. For one thing there are many buildings you can build that give happiness plus other important resources. But, much more important that this, if you move up in ages, your demand for happiness is going to increase but the amount of happiness you get from HS is going to stay the same.
There wasn't as many happiness producing event buildings back when I built HS so it allowed me to replace normal culture buildings. It was a good investment as it also provided FP. Today... not as important. I wouldn't have built it as early today.

After my Arc hit 80 I of course levelled Cape first. There would be no reason to level HS first, the extra happiness does nothing. I disagree with calling "an extremely poor source of FPs" however. I currently get 43 FP/day from HS. SoKs wouldn't come anywhere near that.

If you intend to play this game for years and utilize a lvl 80 Arc then of course you should build and level HS. It just shouldn't be the first thing you level, or the GB you level the highest. If you're not going to make use of a lvl 80 Arc or you don't plan on playing for many years then... yeah you should probably skip HS.
 
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