Archaeology 2020 Feedback

[qaccy]

I think if Inno should take anything away from this at all, it's that the concept of daily specials should probably be done away with. Having the % chances of winning prizes is enough, I think, without there also being uncertainty over what's going to be available from the event in the first place.

Players have set this unreasonable expectation that what happens on beta is going to happen on live. They'll look the other way and accept that the order of daily prizes will be different from beta, but won't accept that prizes may be completely different and start with the tired cries of 'bait and switch'. Seems a bit unfair to me. Inno certainly doesn't need defending here, but I'll still call it like it is when I see a double standard. I think the best solution here is to do as game developers often do and save the players from themselves by getting rid of daily specials. The Summer Event and the new St. Patrick's Day event show that it's possible for events to work without having a special prize that changes every day, and these events are overall more enjoyable for me because they let me play pretty much whenever I want, as opposed to ignoring the event for every day it's running except for the one or two days that the prize I'm interested in is available.

 

[Graviton]

I think if Inno should take anything away from this at all, it's that the concept of daily specials should probably be done away with. Having the % chances of winning prizes is enough, I think, without there also being uncertainty over what's going to be available from the event in the first place.

There's uncertainty for players who don't play beta, which the vast majority of us, and those of us who don't peek at the fan wiki, which is, again, the vast majority of us. I'd go so far as to say there's supposed to be uncertainty, else Inno would make an official announcement of what the daily prizes are going to be.

Players have set this unreasonable expectation that what happens on beta is going to happen on live. They'll look the other way and accept that the order of daily prizes will be different from beta, but won't accept that prizes may be completely different and start with the tired cries of 'bait and switch'. Seems a bit unfair to me. Inno certainly doesn't need defending here, but I'll still call it like it is when I see a double standard. I think the best solution here is to do as game developers often do and save the players from themselves by getting rid of daily specials.

I would argue that Inno shouldn't remove a feature just to appease those with unreasonable expectations. You're right, those expectations are unfair, so I think giving them credence is the wrong move. Doing away with all daily specials kinda reminds me of the unthinking bureaucrats that run high schools: "We regret that we have to punish everyone for the actions of a few." The problem isn't daily specials, it's people with the wrong view of what a beta server is supposed to be. If Inno 'should' do anything it's adjust the expectations of the few to something more reasonable. Maybe an official announcement that beta means beta and what goes on in beta doesn't always make it to live.

Again, the problem is that FoE beta is way too open. Me, I'd severely limit the number of beta players, as many other game companies do, and I'd start by booting every one of them who complains about the difference between beta and live. Make it an exclusive club made up of people who want to test new features, not people who just want the advantage of foreknowledge for their live cities. The latter are the people with unreasonable expectations, so the solution is to do something about them, not the game.

 

[generalwoo]

Newer player here. Been playing for almost four months now with attack boost of 114/111. I primarily focus on military boosts and FP production a close second.

Went for the World's Fair upgrades and managed to complete it when offered the second time, thinking it was my last chance in a long time. I got a carousel the next day but didn't have any luck the second time. I didn't like the prizes that followed and saved the rest of my scrolls, prepared to accept whatever the last prize was. I knew about the checkmate square from a friend who followed the wiki, and I was holding out for that too. It would've been a nice consolation for my lousy luck with the carousels.

Yesterday, I managed to get 10-12 reno kits in both my worlds. Though I wasn't upset that checkmate square didn't appear, I did think to myself, “Wow,
what luck. How much more amazing would this be if they were checkmate squares (or carousels) instead? I can cut through ANYONE'S defense, even the guys who hit me daily and have an insane 350%+ defense that's making it nearly impossible for me to retaliate."

But I'm very content with what else I got - a fully upgraded airship, Observatory prints (only need two more!), hundreds of FPs, many items for the antiques dealer, some neat avatars, and the royal marble gate. Only managed to increase my attack by 6%, but FP production went up by 19 and I finally have something other than Statue of Honor that gives guild goods. I know I'll have more opportunities to work on attack boosts down the road, and from what I've read, the next event looks promising - although the Lv 2 Winner's Plaza isn't better than checkmate square for me (I'm in EMA and about to advance to HMA).

I also wanted the historian reward but couldn't find the first silver tablet. I kept cycling through the bonus quests to get scrolls for additional tools, but it wasn't meant to be. With several hours to go, I figured it wasn't worthwhile to complete two quests to get enough scrolls for one brush, and then complete two more to get the second brush to uncover what was revealed, if any. Maybe next year.

 

[DeletedUser10789]

You do realize that INNO is a business, right? And if they lose money at this, they will just pull the plug, right?
I'm an F2P player. I like it when INNO does things for MONEY MONEY MONEY and it works. Means I don't have to spend any of mine


Please don't feel badly for me. I'm doing just fine. I gambled a bit despite the warning signs that RP pointed out above. I lost. Oh Well. I would hate to go to a casino with you, wow, you would probably be in tears watching so many people lose so much.

Welcome to the party too. LOL. The more the merrier. Wow, you clearly do not know one thing about half the things I have said in the past.

 

[DevaCat]

I think if Inno should take anything away from this at all, it's that the concept of daily specials should probably be done away with. Having the % chances of winning prizes is enough, I think, without there also being uncertainty over what's going to be available from the event in the first place.

Players have set this unreasonable expectation that what happens on beta is going to happen on live. They'll look the other way and accept that the order of daily prizes will be different from beta, but won't accept that prizes may be completely different and start with the tired cries of 'bait and switch'. Seems a bit unfair to me. Inno certainly doesn't need defending here, but I'll still call it like it is when I see a double standard. I think the best solution here is to do as game developers often do and save the players from themselves by getting rid of daily specials. The Summer Event and the new St. Patrick's Day event show that it's possible for events to work without having a special prize that changes every day, and these events are overall more enjoyable for me because they let me play pretty much whenever I want, as opposed to ignoring the event for every day it's running except for the one or two days that the prize I'm interested in is available.

Hold up there hoss. Because some crybabies got their panties in a wad, you think Inno should ditch daily specials in these events? And since when should there be "certainty" over what one might get out of an event?

I agree that players have unreasonable expectations, but I totally disagree that the way forward is more events like St Pats, which blew large chunks imho. Or to eliminate daily specials. If you like those like Pats, fine. Just don't expect a lot of support for that point of view.

 

[Super Catanian]

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

View attachment 15997

thats mean.
And to top it off its a normie, unfunny meme..if your gonna make a meme about something like this at least make it funny..(not that im any better at making memes)

 

[Super Catanian]

thats mean.
And to top it off its a normie, unfunny meme..if your gonna make a meme about something like this at least make it funny..(not that im any better at making memes)

Oy, it's not my fault players are feeling butthurt that the CMS didn't become available. Plus, it's the Archaeology Event! Of course I'm gonna be using dead memes, duh!

 

[Agent327]

This is a long game and it takes a lot of patience. I don't think you are giving the players enough credit in that account. I think that most realize that if the checkmate square doesn't happen in this event then there will be other events where it or an even better military building will be offered. Just a matter of waiting for the next event or the events after that.

Yeah right. That must be why they are complaining now while it has been in the AD from the start.

Yup - I am saddened that I bought diamonds for nothing. Guess that is the first and last time I buy diamonds from Inno

Now who would expect a comment like this?

Deception is not a good business model. If Inno has any shred of integrity or at least recognizes the economic reality of this decision, they should refund diamond purchases of anyone who requests it.

They do so anyhow if your request is on time.

 

[Taixun]

Reading between the lines here, you advised the new player referenced above to hold out for the CMS. By them following your advice, they skipped on the 2 times the Carousel ran, which for a beginning city would have been a very nice add. Now you've got egg on your face from coaching your newbie guild mate to wait for a DS that never came. Did I get that about right? Too bad for them. I agree, that sucks. Still not Inno's fault.

Honest question (for you or anyone): why would one recommend new players go for the checkmate square or carousels, instead of fps producers like the world's fair or even SoK? Just wondering.. I usually recommend new players build up their daily fps first thing... want to make sure I'm not giving bad advice

 

[RazorbackPirate]

Honest question (for you or anyone): why would one recommend new players go for the checkmate square or carousels, instead of fps producers like the world's fair or even SoK? Just wondering.. I usually recommend new players build up their daily fps first thing... want to make sure I'm not giving bad advice

I have no idea. I don't think you're giving bad advice. FPs are king.

 

[DeletedUser31499]

Before GBG it was so easy... fp were King. I’ll still side on getting your fp production up there as a new player. However if you are in an excellent GBG guild you can make several hundred fp a day as a fighter in GBG. You just need the troops...Traz... and the low attrition those siege engines will give you.

 

[BruteForceAttack]

There's uncertainty for players who don't play beta, which the vast majority of us, and those of us who don't peek at the fan wiki, which is, again, the vast majority of us. I'd go so far as to say there's supposed to be uncertainty, else Inno would make an official announcement of what the daily prizes are going to be.



I would argue that Inno shouldn't remove a feature just to appease those with unreasonable expectations. You're right, those expectations are unfair, so I think giving them credence is the wrong move. Doing away with all daily specials kinda reminds me of the unthinking bureaucrats that run high schools: "We regret that we have to punish everyone for the actions of a few." The problem isn't daily specials, it's people with the wrong view of what a beta server is supposed to be. If Inno 'should' do anything it's adjust the expectations of the few to something more reasonable. Maybe an official announcement that beta means beta and what goes on in beta doesn't always make it to live.

Again, the problem is that FoE beta is way too open. Me, I'd severely limit the number of beta players, as many other game companies do, and I'd start by booting every one of them who complains about the difference between beta and live. Make it an exclusive club made up of people who want to test new features, not people who just want the advantage of foreknowledge for their live cities. The latter are the people with unreasonable expectations, so the solution is to do something about them, not the game.

Yes Inno should close beta for public and HIRE testers and PAY them to test their product. Pay ppl to give user feedback. etc etc..

 

[Agent327]

Yes Inno should close beta for public and HIRE testers and PAY them to test their product. Pay ppl to give user feedback. etc etc..

Aren't they doing that now?

 

[BruteForceAttack]

Yes Inno should close beta for public and HIRE testers and PAY them to test their product. Pay ppl to give user feedback. etc etc..

And if Inno want it for free..."Where is my BEEF"?

 

[Graviton]

Yes Inno should close beta for public and HIRE testers and PAY them to test their product. Pay ppl to give user feedback. etc etc..

I'm sure they already have paid testers. Many game companies have beta servers but they limit the number of players and they vet them to a degree, to make sure they are experienced and are applying to help test things, not just exploit it so they can plan ahead for their live city.

 

[Algona]

Yes Inno should close beta for public and HIRE testers and PAY them to test their product. Pay ppl to give user feedback. etc etc..

Seems unneeded. Folk go in now and test stuff, better, INNO since apparently a lot of folk treat beta much the same as live, INNO can watch what they do and has the potential to gather a lot of information. I'd like to think they do gather and analyze that data and base decisions on that, but I don't think I;d bet on it.

Honest question (for you or anyone): why would one recommend new players go for the checkmate square or carousels, instead of fps producers like the world's fair or even SoK? Just wondering.. I usually recommend new players build up their daily fps first thing... want to make sure I'm not giving bad advice

Agreed. SoKs and such are great for a startup city.

But...

Shortly after securing a foundation of FP producing SBs, the easiest path to becoming a 'powerful' player is to build a city that can reliably do DCs, Events, GE 64, and go deep into GBG. Those last two require either massive Goods production and or serious fighting capability.and as Loed Pest notes, GBG is an FP ATM, punch in a code and FPs spew out.

Personally I much prefer fighting, that means a full combat GB suite with as much SB attack as I can get my hands on. (Sweet sweet SOs, I missed you this event.)

That's why newer players should grab quality attack SBs as their second priority after securing adequate FP production.

----------

Algona presents a passion play:

Spoiler

Announcer: Early in Archaeology 2020 Event planning...

INNO DEv 1 (ID1): We need a good attack SB for the Event.

ID2: Agreed, but give SO a rest and drive up demand for a later Event.

ID3: Howsabout Checkmate Square? Popular in AD, folk keep asking for it in the forums,.

ID Chorus: GREAT IDEA! THE PLAYERS WILL SWARM ALL OVER IT!

Announcer: Later during Archaeology 2020 Event beta....

ID1: Hey guys, about that CMS thing...

ID 2: That was great idea, beta testers are going crazy over it!

ID1: We may have a problem. We got the new attack SB we;re gonna drop in Summer 2020 Event.

ID3: So?

ID1: Think it through. We get a lot of folk who will crazy over CMS in the Live Event...

ID2:...and weeks later we put out a new better attack SB in Summer 2020 Event...

ID 3:... and all the folk who went crazy getting CMS will be...

ID Chorus:...SUPER PISSED WE JERKED THEM AROUND THIS EVENT LETTING THEM GO CRAZY BUYING CMS WHEN IT WOULD BE SHORTLY OBSOLETE!

[que ominous foreshadowing music of doom unforeseen]

ID1: So we switch out CMS from this Event?

ID2: Yeah. Replace it with something else. Howsabout Carousel? Carousel won;t be completely obsoleted..

[ominous foreshadowing music of doom unforeseen gets louder]

ID3: Damn good thing we told everyone we may change prizes from beta..

ID Chorus: WOW! WE DODGED THAT BULLET!

[ominous foreshaodiwng music of doom unforeseen crescendo]

Announcer: It seems the INNO devs in their relief over averting disaster forgot that so many players would misinterpret anything INNO does as INNO cheating, lying, bait and switching despite the players knowing that it could occur.

Tune in for our next episode "When the dooky hits the fan." or "Some players will always blame INNO for their own mistakes Chapter 314."

 

[BruteForceAttack]

I'm sure they already have paid testers. Many game companies have beta servers but they limit the number of players and they vet them to a degree, to make sure they are experienced and are applying to help test things, not just exploit it so they can plan ahead for their live city.

I'm sure inno have testers too.. But every other release changes are done based on beta community feedback. Case in point latest event was changed 4-5 days before event concluded in Beta. So if inno values feedback, they should get something back and not get let down.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

I'm sure inno have testers too.. But every other release changes are done based on beta community feedback. Case in point latest event was changed 4-5 days before event concluded in Beta. So if inno values feedback, they should get something back and not get let down.

Beta players are compensated with free diamonds given with each new feature release. Inno has done stuff in the past when changes were made late in an event, but not often. The only ones who truly lose, by their own choice, are those who only play on Beta as their one and only world. Like we often say to those complaining about stuff on the liver servers, play choices have consequences.

 

[BruteForceAttack]

Beta players are compensated with free diamonds given with each new feature release. Inno has done stuff in the past when changes were made late in an event, but not often. The only ones who truly lose, by their own choice, are those who only play on Beta as their one and only world. Like we often say to those complaining about stuff on the liver servers, play choices have consequences.

LoL Free diamonds are not for the main city my dear....it is for beta only...good as dirt...