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Basic Guide to Strategy for New Players

jsc29

Active Member
If you are new or just starting out in Forge of Empires, there is some basic strategy you should know so that you grow your city efficiently. Below I have listed many of the key elements of city planning and growth strategy to help you make your decisions as you progress.

(1) The three basic resources in the game are diamonds, forge points and goods. 1 FP ~ 5 Goods ~ 50 Diamonds is the rough approximation in value between these items.

(2) Tiles in FOE tend to yield about 1 FP or 1 Good each for the better quality buildings. From this you can see that buildings that produce forge points are about 5x better than buildings that produce goods. Therefore, you want to almost always prefer buildings that produce forge points.

(3) Higher level players get most of their goods from fighting in Guild Battlegrounds (GBG), not from making them. If you are in a guild, you can buy goods from your higher age guildies using forge points. This is far better than trying to make the goods yourself.

(4) If your guildmates are high age and do not have the low level goods you need, buy the goods they have, then trade them down to what you need using the market system. This can be very profitable. For example, if you buy 50 Explosives for 10 Forge Points, you can trade the 50 Explosives for 90 Rubber, then trade that for 170 Coffee, then trade that for 320 Silk, then trade that for 600 Ropes, then trade that for 1100 Honey, then trade that for 2000 Iron, then trade that for 3600 Lumber. You got 3600 Lumber for 10 FP. Kind of crazy, huh?

(5) Sniping and Sabotage are important techniques for farming goods and FP from your neighbors. Your neighbors are big, fat cows. Milk them! I wrote a separate guide to sniping which can get you started doing that.

(6) When you build your city use all the tiles for something. Don't leave empty tiles doing nothing.

(7) Different buildings have different efficiencies. So you might have 3x3 = 9 tiles building that makes 160 production in an hour, and another that is 4x5 = 20 tiles and makes 220 production in an hour. Try to maximize your production per tile. Often event buildings like the Airship and the Governor's Villa have the best efficiencies, so you should focus efforts on events when they arise.

(8) Roads produce nothing, so you want to minimize roads. You should try to arrange your city so that all the buildings are touching as few road tiles as possible. Usually the best way to do this is to put things that do not need roads on the outside, then place buildings in an outer ring inside of these and finally put a smaller ring of roads inside of these. Put big buildings in the corners of the city. Never put a road around the outside of your city, because half of the road would be wasted in that case since no building touches the outer side.

(9) The best shape for a city is a fat rectangle, for example, about 10 expansions by 6 or 7 expansions. This shape is the most flexible for achieving the goals of (7) above. The problem with a perfectly square city is that the roads have to turn more often, and that is inefficient. The rectangle allows you to have long avenues, which is what you want.

(10) Try to place your town hall in the center of the city or the center of one side. That will make it easier to minimize road use because you can use all four sides of the Town Hall to send out roads. Putting a town hall in a corner is bad because you lose the use of two of its sides.

(11) Do not use decorations, like trees. Decorations will get buffed by random chance when your friends aid you and such buffs are usually worthless. You want your production buildings to get buffed, not decorations. If you need happiness, use one or two big buildings and upgraded roads to get the happiness.

(12) Do not spend resources on city defense. Your tiles are much better spent getting more forge points. The amount of stuff that you might lose by getting plundered is more or less meaningless. You can minimize losses to plundering by collecting from your buildings every day.

(13) Friends are important as a source of aiding and tavern silver, and more importantly as trade partners. Work hard getting good friends. Friends that produce a lot of goods are especially valuable. You can prune inactive players out of your friends list by going to the Town Hall, selecting News, then Event History. Enter in each friend's name into the search box. This will show you everything the friend has done in the last week. If they haven't done anything, replace them with a better friend. Avoid friends that are "campers" meaning that they stay in a low age. You want to have friends that grow with you.

(14) Everything is centered around Great Buildings (GBs). You earn forge points and then use them to level GBs. That's what the game is about. However, some GBs are much better than others, so choosing which GBs to level at what time is a crucial part of your strategy. You can tell which GBs are the most useful and worth developing by looking at the cities of successful players.

(15) The Oracle of Delphi is only good at the very beginning of the game. As soon as you complete the quest for it, it starts to lose value. Many people delete it as soon as the quest is done because there are more efficient ways to get happiness. Buildings like the Colosseum are worthless and resources should never be spent on them.

(16) The Lighthouse of Alexandria is a good GB for early age development. Once you get to EMA, it starts to become less important.

(17) The Castel Del Monte is very useful because it generates forge points. In general, the three key military buildings are the CDM, the Cathedral of Aachen, and the Statue of Zeus. When you get to around Colonial, you should add an Alcatraz if you are doing military activities.

(18) The Temple of Relics is an incredibly profitable building at the low levels and you should work to get it as soon as you reach EMA and have enough room for it. Note that the efficiency of the TOR rapidly decreases after level 5. So, when you get your TOR, level it to 5 or 6 as soon as you can, but then it has less priority because each additional level past that does not give much benefit. You should never level a TOR past 10 because it loses money at that point and beyond.

(19) The Arc is the most important GB in the game because it magnifies your FP contributions to GBs. However, it is a really big building and comes from an advanced age, so it is expensive to get. By the time you get to HMA or LMA, you should try to join a bigger guild so they can help you build an Arc and do GBG (see next topic).

(20) The fastest way to progress in the game is to do Guild Battlegrounds (GBG), because it returns relatively large amounts of forge points and goods. You should seek to get into an active guild that does well in GBG because it will greatly increase the number of forge points you get. Guild Expedition is also useful for getting goods, units and forge points.

(21) When you are aging up, try to save up most of the FP and goods you will need to research the new age ahead of time. As soon as you age up, the military units against you get stronger, so you want to be able to rapidly make units that can fight on equal terms, or you will get stuck in a rut. Also, buildings get bigger as you age up, so you want to have as many expansions as you can before you age up. Don't try to age up a tiny city, because you will not be able to fit all the buildings you need .

(22) Once you get to the Progressive Age or thereabouts, you can start planning your career in the more advanced aspects of Forge of Empires. There are three basic routes. One is to focus on doing a lot of quests and events. In that case, you should aim at getting a Chateau Frontenac. The second is to focus on the military in which case you want to work on getting an Arctic Orangery and Terracotta Army. The third possibility is to become a goods trader and wheeler dealer, in which case you should get a Truce Tower.

Planning your journey in Forge of Empires will help speed your progress and help you achieve a city you are proud of.
 

CaptainKirk1234

Active Member
Very good guide to explaining key concepts to begginers. The only part I would do differently is part 22 where you say that there are 3 ways to go, that is correct, but If you want to fight you want a alcatraz and kraken as well as the trinity and the arctic orangey and terracota army for later ages. Lower age negotiation players might want to first get a lighthouse of alexandria and then later on get a truce tower. Earlier age negotation buildings are pretty small and are worth the cost to place.
 

DreadfulCadillac

Well-Known Member
If you are new or just starting out in Forge of Empires, there is some basic strategy you should know so that you grow your city efficiently. Below I have listed many of the key elements of city planning and growth strategy to help you make your decisions as you progress.

(1) The three basic resources in the game are diamonds, forge points and goods. 1 FP ~ 5 Goods ~ 50 Diamonds is the rough approximation in value between these items.

(2) Tiles in FOE tend to yield about 1 FP or 1 Good each for the better quality buildings. From this you can see that buildings that produce forge points are about 5x better than buildings that produce goods. Therefore, you want to almost always prefer buildings that produce forge points.

(3) Higher level players get most of their goods from fighting in Guild Battlegrounds (GBG), not from making them. If you are in a guild, you can buy goods from your higher age guildies using forge points. This is far better than trying to make the goods yourself.

(4) If your guildmates are high age and do not have the low level goods you need, buy the goods they have, then trade them down to what you need using the market system. This can be very profitable. For example, if you buy 50 Explosives for 10 Forge Points, you can trade the 50 Explosives for 90 Rubber, then trade that for 170 Coffee, then trade that for 320 Silk, then trade that for 600 Ropes, then trade that for 1100 Honey, then trade that for 2000 Iron, then trade that for 3600 Lumber. You got 3600 Lumber for 10 FP. Kind of crazy, huh?

(5) Sniping and Sabotage are important techniques for farming goods and FP from your neighbors. Your neighbors are big, fat cows. Milk them! I wrote a separate guide to sniping which can get you started doing that.

(6) When you build your city use all the tiles for something. Don't leave empty tiles doing nothing.

(7) Different buildings have different efficiencies. So you might have 3x3 = 9 tiles building that makes 160 production in an hour, and another that is 4x5 = 20 tiles and makes 220 production in an hour. Try to maximize your production per tile. Often event buildings like the Airship and the Governor's Villa have the best efficiencies, so you should focus efforts on events when they arise.

(8) Roads produce nothing, so you want to minimize roads. You should try to arrange your city so that all the buildings are touching as few road tiles as possible. Usually the best way to do this is to put things that do not need roads on the outside, then place buildings in an outer ring inside of these and finally put a smaller ring of roads inside of these. Put big buildings in the corners of the city. Never put a road around the outside of your city, because half of the road would be wasted in that case since no building touches the outer side.

(9) The best shape for a city is a fat rectangle, for example, about 10 expansions by 6 or 7 expansions. This shape is the most flexible for achieving the goals of (7) above. The problem with a perfectly square city is that the roads have to turn more often, and that is inefficient. The rectangle allows you to have long avenues, which is what you want.

(10) Try to place your town hall in the center of the city or the center of one side. That will make it easier to minimize road use because you can use all four sides of the Town Hall to send out roads. Putting a town hall in a corner is bad because you lose the use of two of its sides.

(11) Do not use decorations, like trees. Decorations will get buffed by random chance when your friends aid you and such buffs are usually worthless. You want your production buildings to get buffed, not decorations. If you need happiness, use one or two big buildings and upgraded roads to get the happiness.

(12) Do not spend resources on city defense. Your tiles are much better spent getting more forge points. The amount of stuff that you might lose by getting plundered is more or less meaningless. You can minimize losses to plundering by collecting from your buildings every day.

(13) Friends are important as a source of aiding and tavern silver, and more importantly as trade partners. Work hard getting good friends. Friends that produce a lot of goods are especially valuable. You can prune inactive players out of your friends list by going to the Town Hall, selecting News, then Event History. Enter in each friend's name into the search box. This will show you everything the friend has done in the last week. If they haven't done anything, replace them with a better friend. Avoid friends that are "campers" meaning that they stay in a low age. You want to have friends that grow with you.

(14) Everything is centered around Great Buildings (GBs). You earn forge points and then use them to level GBs. That's what the game is about. However, some GBs are much better than others, so choosing which GBs to level at what time is a crucial part of your strategy. You can tell which GBs are the most useful and worth developing by looking at the cities of successful players.

(15) The Oracle of Delphi is only good at the very beginning of the game. As soon as you complete the quest for it, it starts to lose value. Many people delete it as soon as the quest is done because there are more efficient ways to get happiness. Buildings like the Colosseum are worthless and resources should never be spent on them.

(16) The Lighthouse of Alexandria is a good GB for early age development. Once you get to EMA, it starts to become less important.

(17) The Castel Del Monte is very useful because it generates forge points. In general, the three key military buildings are the CDM, the Cathedral of Aachen, and the Statue of Zeus. When you get to around Colonial, you should add an Alcatraz if you are doing military activities.

(18) The Temple of Relics is an incredibly profitable building at the low levels and you should work to get it as soon as you reach EMA and have enough room for it. Note that the efficiency of the TOR rapidly decreases after level 5. So, when you get your TOR, level it to 5 or 6 as soon as you can, but then it has less priority because each additional level past that does not give much benefit. You should never level a TOR past 10 because it loses money at that point and beyond.

(19) The Arc is the most important GB in the game because it magnifies your FP contributions to GBs. However, it is a really big building and comes from an advanced age, so it is expensive to get. By the time you get to HMA or LMA, you should try to join a bigger guild so they can help you build an Arc and do GBG (see next topic).

(20) The fastest way to progress in the game is to do Guild Battlegrounds (GBG), because it returns relatively large amounts of forge points and goods. You should seek to get into an active guild that does well in GBG because it will greatly increase the number of forge points you get. Guild Expedition is also useful for getting goods, units and forge points.

(21) When you are aging up, try to save up most of the FP and goods you will need to research the new age ahead of time. As soon as you age up, the military units against you get stronger, so you want to be able to rapidly make units that can fight on equal terms, or you will get stuck in a rut. Also, buildings get bigger as you age up, so you want to have as many expansions as you can before you age up. Don't try to age up a tiny city, because you will not be able to fit all the buildings you need .

(22) Once you get to the Progressive Age or thereabouts, you can start planning your career in the more advanced aspects of Forge of Empires. There are three basic routes. One is to focus on doing a lot of quests and events. In that case, you should aim at getting a Chateau Frontenac. The second is to focus on the military in which case you want to work on getting an Arctic Orangery and Terracotta Army. The third possibility is to become a goods trader and wheeler dealer, in which case you should get a Truce Tower.

Planning your journey in Forge of Empires will help speed your progress and help you achieve a city you are proud of.
I disagree with alot of this. Great beginner info, but part 22 is just dead wrong. You can do most of part 22 before pe, ive seen many players do it before then.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
(1) diamonds are not a basic resource

(2) No they don't

(3) No they don't and totally irrelative for starters

(4) or you trade with friends and neighbours

(5) does not apply to new players

(6) don't build things you do not need just to fill space, it will cost you coins and supplies

(7) new players can not get those event buildings

(8) roads give happiness

and so on.

This isn't anything that helps new players. Most of the suggestions are out of their reach.
 

jsc29

Active Member
I am only to respond briefly to the critics. This guide is about strategy and different players have different ideas about strategy. Trying to argue about a strategy with somebody who has their own ideas is often fruitless. If you think you have a better strategic plan for progressing in the game, fine, write your own strategy guide.
 

CommanderCool1234

Active Member
(1) diamonds are not a basic resource
(2) No they don't
(3) No they don't and totally irrelative for starters
(4) or you trade with friends and neighbours
(5) does not apply to new players
(6) don't build things you do not need just to fill space, it will cost you coins and supplies
(7) new players can not get those event buildings
(8) roads give happiness
and so on.

This isn't anything that helps new players. Most of the suggestions are out of their reach.
I acually have to agree with agent on this, fairly goods guide but just many inccorect things and things that do not apply to new players.
 

CommanderCool1234

Active Member
Very good guide to explaining key concepts to begginers. The only part I would do differently is part 22 where you say that there are 3 ways to go, that is correct, but If you want to fight you want a alcatraz and kraken as well as the trinity and the arctic orangey and terracota army for later ages. Lower age negotiation players might want to first get a lighthouse of alexandria and then later on get a truce tower. Earlier age negotation buildings are pretty small and are worth the cost to place.
Yeah, true but I think he is assuming you allready have those. Those are basic great buildings that most people have.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
I am only to respond briefly to the critics. This guide is about strategy and different players have different ideas about strategy. Trying to argue about a strategy with somebody who has their own ideas is often fruitless. If you think you have a better strategic plan for progressing in the game, fine, write your own strategy guide.

No.

You chose to post this in the Guides subforum.

You posted it, it's fair game for critique.

A poster does not have to have written their own Guide to have valid insight. Your refusal to look at such guarantees that any mistakes you make will not be addressed.

Ace, if you wrote this Guide to stroke your ego, that's fine, ignore critiques But if you wrote this Guide to help new players then you need to address those critiques because that process makes for a better Guide.

----------

I've written tens of thousands of words on FoE fundamentals and taught dozens of players how to play this game. And yeah, I have written my own Guide.

My critique of this Guide is that it is not written for a new player, it omits way too much of the fundamental concepts of resource managemnt.

There's some good stuff, some stuff that is awful, a lot that is subjective, a lot that is missing.

In short, you got a middlin' start at a useful Guide for a strategy for new players.

Recommendations:

Ask the mods to move this to the Pending guides subforum and work on it there.

Ask for and consider useful critiques.

Oh and:

Planning your journey in Forge of Empires GUIDE WRITING will help speed your progress and help you achieve a GUIDE you are proud of.

Good luck.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
This guide is about strategy and different players have different ideas about strategy. Trying to argue about a strategy with somebody who has their own ideas is often fruitless.

With that comment you disqualify this as a guide. This isn't about strategy either. You do not even have the basics right. These are just your ideas that dio not have anything to do with new players. How many new players do you know that are in Progressive? It does not even qualify as a pending guide, cause judging by your comments, you are not even going to try to make something of it. So since these are basically nothing more than your thoughts, I am moving it to the Tavern.
 

jsc29

Active Member
I have edited the title and introduction to my guide to clarify that this is not just for brand new players. It is for players that are, as I stated, starting out in the game, meaning play over the first few months. It covers various aspects of strategy as a person ages up to about Progressive or so. This is a guide, not hard and fast rules. Also, I have clarified that the guide is for players who want to age up steadily and efficiently. It is not for campers, or people who want to try to squeeze Arcs into an Iron Age city or things like that.

Most of the criticisms above are extremely vague. They just say things like "you are wrong" without saying what or why.

One person above criticized my guide without even reading it closely because he implied I did not include the trinity, which obvious the guide does. The same poster has the opinion that the Kraken has higher priority than Arctic Orangery. From a mathematical point of view this is not correct. The biggest source of FP by far is GBG. A player can earn hundreds of FP every day in GBG. Therefore, from a mathematical standpoint, maximizing fighting in GBG is what a player who wants to progress fast should do. The Arctic Orangery is far superior to the Kraken in GBG because at the beginning of the day attrition is zero, so the fights are trivial. This means that the Kraken kills are essentially wasted because players take little or no damage when the Kraken is active, so it is not helping much. By the time the player reaches high levels of attrition when the Kraken kills would be useful, it is already used up. AO, on the other hand, is useful constantly and its bonus applies no matter what the level of attrition is. For this reason AO is far more important than Kraken to a player that wants to maximize their FP earnings and progress. Also, the 20%-30% chance of first strike kill you get from a low level Kraken is mathematically inferior to the critical hit bonus of an AO by a large margin. Even if the Kraken had no count limitation and operated constantly, it would still be inferior to the AO. Not only that, the incremental improvement in the Kraken's bonus steadily decreases as it levels, but the AO's increment scales linearly--one more reason to prefer the AO.

A lot of the other criticism of my guide is either incoherent or insincere. For example, Agent327 makes the assertion that a player should leave empty tiles or buildings doing nothing in their city because "it will cost coins and supplies" to fill it. However, my guide does not say to build buildings that do nothing. It says to USE all the tiles available to do something. Even a Bronze Age player can always add productive buildings like Hunters. A Hunter pays for itself the first day of use, so Agent327's attitude that a player should leave empty tiles in their cities is not rational. I think he said that not because he believes it, but because he just wanted to think up a criticism of some kind for every point in my guide. I see early age players sometimes leaving large numbers of tiles in their city empty and this hurts their progression because those tiles could be producing FP and other resources, so point (6) in the guide is important.

Other parts of my guide are based on mathematical analysis. For example, I recommend de-prioritizing the TOR at around level 5 and not leveling it past 10 at all for a newer player (meaning someone in their first year of play). The reason for this is that it takes 50 days to break even on a TOR at level 5, and it takes over 200 days to break even at level 10 as has already been shown by others on these forums (see https://cforum.us.forgeofempires.co...eak-even-time-for-all-fp-producing-gbs.24383/). Therefore, a player who is in their first 3-4 months of play should not be over-developing a TOR. They need to use the profit from the TOR to help their progression and the sweet spot for that profit in the first year of play is around level 5.

I think if somebody wants to criticize one of the guidelines in my guide, at a minimum they should say which guideline it is, and give a specific rational or mathematical reason why they object to the guideline.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
In the interest of saving you a lot of aggravation I have a suggestion.

Find a few new players who have posted a question on the forum.

Send them the following message:

HI! I'd like to ask a big favor. It appears your new to the game. I'm writing "Basic Guideto Strategy for New Players."

Can I send you a copy for review and feedback?


If they say yes, send them the first post of this thread. Just that nothing more. If they respond, just say thanks.

The rest of this post is me taking you up on your request.

I think if somebody wants to criticize one of the guidelines in my guide, at a minimum they should say which guideline it is, and give a specific rational or mathematical reason why they object to the guideline.

Don't mind if i do!

(1) The three basic resources in the game are diamonds, forge points and goods. 1 FP ~ 5 Goods ~ 50 Diamonds is the rough approximation in value between these items.

There are more then 3 'basic' Resources. A new player ignoring Coins and Supplies will quickly find themselves unable to generate the Troops and Goods needed to do GBG.

The equivalency of "1 FP ~ 5 Goods ~ 50 Diamonds" is arguable: I've got over 30K Diamonds and make hundreds per week, but still would not trade 50 Diamonds for 1 FP or 5 Goods. Implying that it is good game play to do so is a disservice to new players.

That equivalency also implies that players can easily trade between those three Resources. While the game supports buying Goods and FPs for Diamonds, you can't go the other way. Although players can trade Goods and FPs back and forth, this is not supported by the game, but is a player construct with easy potential for fraud.

Nor do you explain how a new player can make any of the exchanges between FPs, Goods, and Diamonds.

(2) Tiles in FOE tend to yield about 1 FP or 1 Good each for the better quality buildings. From this you can see that buildings that produce forge points are about 5x better than buildings that produce goods. Therefore, you want to almost always prefer buildings that produce forge points.

1 FP per tile? Demonstrably false. The only 'better quality buildings' that produce more then 1 FP per tile are FP GBs that have been leveled and a few SBs, neither re within the means of new players ' over the first few months'.

1 Good per tile? Sleigh Builder and lvl 2 TF would like to have a word with you.

'From this you can see that buildings that produce forge points are about 5x better than buildings that produce goods.'

Except new players can't get FP producing Buildings immediately unless they are lucky enough to win them in an Event. This Guide doesn't say anything about how to do an Event, something all new players need help with. They can build mundane Goods buildings immediately.

(3) Higher level players get most of their goods from fighting in Guild Battlegrounds (GBG), not from making them. If you are in a guild, you can buy goods from your higher age guildies using forge points. This is far better than trying to make the goods yourself.

No. Lose the notion that new players have FPs to spend on Goods. They have to learn how to acquire and level GBs, do DCs, GE, and Events to get SBs, and devleope the capability to do a lot of GBG or some other technique to bolster FP production. No where in this Guide do you discuss how players do any of the above.

(4) If your guildmates are high age and do not have the low level goods you need, buy the goods they have, then trade them down to what you need using the market system. This can be very profitable. For example, if you buy 50 Explosives for 10 Forge Points, you can trade the 50 Explosives for 90 Rubber, then trade that for 170 Coffee, then trade that for 320 Silk, then trade that for 600 Ropes, then trade that for 1100 Honey, then trade that for 2000 Iron, then trade that for 3600 Lumber. You got 3600 Lumber for 10 FP. Kind of crazy, huh?

Players have discussed this technique for years.

Not one player has ever documented the process while doing it in game with a detailed account of the time and results it took to do so, a diary, if you will, of the process.

Do it! Start a new city and document this process. Screenshots and updates, I guarantee you a fascinated following. The ones who tried this before burned out pretty quickly, none lasted a week, but maybe you'll be different.

The theory looks great, but since no one has documented successfully implementing it remains theory.

You forgot to mention, who are they trading with? Hoodies are their Era. Friends? Nothing about developing a Friends list to support such trading. Guildies? Most GBG active Guilds are short on EMA and IA Goods and are rarely interested in trading up.

----------

Enough of the individual points for now, I'll come back to those later. I want to take the discussion up a couple levels.

I want to enforce my suggestion in the discussion of your point (4).

Everything you've written is long on theory and short on proof.

You want to write a Guide for new players, then become a new player.

Start a new city, implement the techniques you put in this Guide and document what you do, why you do it, and the results and progress as you do so. That will be the foundation of a good Guide.

That's what the writers of the best Guides in this forum did. They lived their theories then wrote things up step by step.

----------

You're an awful writer. By all means keep writing, but find an editor to make sure that the words you type are what you mean. An example:

"Basic Guide to Strategy for New Players"

Taken literally, I'd expect a list of the different game play techniques and strategies in this game (SloppyJoeSlayer (I think, now just DeletedUser) started a list that grew to ddozens of different strategies player use) and maybe some comments on effectiveness and the basic techniques. Whoops!

another example: My first comment on your point (1).

What I'm seeing is a list of tips. Some good some bad, but nothing that says here is what you should try to do and here is how to do it. An editor can help you arrange things in a cogent and coherent fashion.

All written with an eye to new players.

You know? The folk who ask how to move buildings and why are they always short on Supplies and how do they stop bullies from stealing...

Oh, and to short circuit this whole thing:

A Guide for New Players:

Join a Platinum or Diamond GBG Guild. Find a mentor in that Guild willing to help you learn and get good at DCs, Events, RQs, GE, and GBG. Profit.
 

jsc29

Active Member
I will address Algona's points first:

(1) I updated my guide to make it clear that the guide is players during "starting out" in the game which I define as the first 3-6 months (depending how intensively they play). This is not a guide for somebody on the first day. This is a guide for somebody who has played for a couple of weeks and is wondering: what do I do know, what are my long term goals, what do I need to plan for over the next 3 months. The guide is intended to be used as the person levels through about Progressive or so and plays for 3-6 months. So, the criticism that item X in the guide does not apply to brand new players. YES I KNOW. The guide is supposed to help a person AS THEY LEVEL UP. Not all the points are relevant to the first weeks. Some things will be useful in the first week, others in the second month, others in the third month. Different things in the guide are relevant depending on where the player is in their progression.

(2) Concerning gold/resources. I did not address these because I think most players can manage these needs on their own without special guidance. My guide focuses on tricky strategic problems that most players need help with to make informed decisions. gold/resource problems are fairly easy problems that most players can solve without an expert helping them.

(3) Concerning the 1:5:50 ratio. I know that it is approximate and I said that in the guide. Especially at the high end past Future, the ratios change a little bit, and I said that in the guide also. One of the key reasons for this ratio is the way that GBs are funded and also research. The system charges about 8-10 diamonds per good, so that is a hard limit. Also, to buy FP it costs exactly 50 diamonds per FP. So, these are system enforced limits. So for Algona to claim that 1 FP does not equal 50 diamonds is unsupportable because that is the purchase equivalent in the system and you can access it by pushing the + button at the top of the screen. I hardly think I am being controversial when I set the trading ratios at exactly what the system allows the players to trade for.

(4) Concerning the 1 FP/tile guideline. It's a GUIDELINE, not a rule. For example, lets take a typical event building like the Abandoned Asylum. It provides 11 FP, 20 goods and 19 attack (the gold is more or less meaningless in the long run). If we equate 20 goods to 4 FP (see 3 above), then it is 15 FP + 19 attack. I generally rate +1% attack per tile as the target level (although this is not discussed in the guide). Therefore, the approximate value of the building is 34 for 25 tiles, which I admit is higher than a score of 25, but that is why it is a good building. Let's look at another, the Shrine of Knowledge. It gives 1/2 FP per tile when upgraded, so it is on the low end, but still on the same order. Let's look at another, the Crow's Nest. If we ignore the diamond/medal reward for the sake of simplicity we can value the building at 8 FP + 50% x 12 FP + 50% x 50 goods. If we value the 50 goods as 10 FP (per 3 above again), we can see the value of the building is 8 + 50% x 12 + 50% x 10 = 8 + 6 + 5 = 19, plus some gold and happiness, for a building that sits on 25 tiles. So, once again we can see the value of the building approaches 1 FP / tile. Overall, the better buildings tend to approach 1 FP / tile in the aggregate. I realize that in the beginning, players only have a few buildings that are this good. The 1 FP / tile is a TARGET, not a rule. For example, some GBs get much better than 1 FP / tile, so these tend to average out with the lower quality buildings. The point is to give the player a general goal, or foundation for what they should aim for, not create some hard law that is set in stone.

(5) Concerning buying goods or acquiring goods by fighting versus making them. Making goods is OK if a player has nothing better to put on the tile. For example, a base level SOK provides 1/4 FP per tile which is pretty sucky, but a goods building, say 4x4 makes 30 goods per day (if it is attended 3 times), which equals about 6 FP, or about 3/8 FP per tile, not great, but definitely better than an un-upgraded SOK. However, in the long run, by getting event buildings, upgraded SOKs and other buildings close to 1 FP per tile, they will always be better than a goods building. Therefore, the long term objective of the player that wants to progress fast should be make the city with high-FP/tile buildings and get rid of the goods buildings as those higher value buildings become available. Once the player gets rid of them, the easiest way to get goods is to buy them from guildies who are fighters (or to fight yourself). I realize that at low ages especially, a player will have extra tiles and the best thing available for those tiles will be goods buildings. Once again the guide is about GOALS and long-term objectives, not hard and fast rules. The guide, if you actually read it, says that the player should PREFER FP producing buildings to goods buildings.

(6) Concerning trading down to get goods. I do it all the time. The last time I aged up, all the extra goods I needed to research the the level were provided by down trading. I could have simply bought the goods from my guild members, but rather than bother them I just took some high level goods I got from my TT and downtraded them. It is an extremely profitable way to play the game. The fact that few players do it or even know about it, is exactly why it is in the guide: it advice from an expert to people who want to maximize their progression. If you look at the example of downtrading I give, you will see all the ratios are better than 1:2. By offering better than 1:2 ratios, like say offering 50 copper for only 80 or 90 iron, that is good enough to get players to execute the trade in a day or two.

(7) Concerning trading partners. If you read the guide, you will see that it specifically recommends in multiple places: (a) getting in a large guild, and (b) cultivating a large and active group of friends. The guide specifically recommends how to prune inactives out of a friend's list. I currently have 85 friends, all active, 68 guildmates and 73 neighbors. Thats a total of 229 people I can trade with.

Concerning Agent327's point about early age players being unable to earn 100s of FP in GBG, see point (1) above. Sure, when a player is Iron Age, they can only get 20-30 FP from GE/GBG, I realize that. I think most players realize that.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
Concerning Agent327's point about early age players being unable to earn 100s of FP in GBG, see point (1) above. Sure, when a player is Iron Age, they can only get 20-30 FP from GE/GBG, I realize that. I think most players realize that.

If you did you would not write it. They can not do it in 3-6 months either.

Not to long ago you posted this

I was just looking at the math of the CDM and it seems pretty dismal. It seems I would be paying over 800 FP to get 1% extra attack and +1 FP. So, in terms of FP payback, it would take over 800 days (more than 2 years) before it payed for itself. And as for the +1% attack, there are a LOT of ways to get +1% attack/defense that are cheaper than 800 FP. What is the motivation of leveling CDM past about 10? Player's just run out of space for better stuff?

Now

(17) The Castel Del Monte is very useful because it generates forge points. In general, the three key military buildings are the CDM, the Cathedral of Aachen, and the Statue of Zeus. When you get to around Colonial, you should add an Alcatraz if you are doing military activities.

And then there is this

Trying to argue about a strategy with somebody who has their own ideas is often fruitless.

I really have no idea why it is so important for you to write guides all of a sudden, but your own ideas? You are asking question after question on this forum on how to proceed in this game and what to do. Do you really think you are the right person to tell others?
 

CommanderCool1234

Active Member
If you did you would not write it. They can not do it in 3-6 months either.

Not to long ago you posted this

Now

And then there is this

I really have no idea why it is so important for you to write guides all of a sudden, but your own ideas? You are asking question after question on this forum on how to proceed in this game and what to do. Do you really think you are the right person to tell others?
Oooo, roasted!
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
Sigh. You really aren't getting this at all.

You've written more explaining what you meant then what you originally posted. That screams that what you originally posted is poorly written.

Worse, those explanations are not being incorporated in the actual Guide, they are in appendices further down and written as poorly as the rest of your Guide.

One example of this: No where in the original post do you say :

(1) ...This is not a guide for somebody on the first day. This is a guide for somebody who has played for a couple of weeks and is wondering: what do I do know, what are my long term goals, what do I need to plan for over the next 3 months.

Where does it say that in the original post?

Your title and the initial paragraph say new player, new, just starting out. Not players with a couple weeks experience.

----------

You refuse to correct simple mistakes. Sentence1 of point (1) in the OP is still wrong.

You refuse to remove harmful and misleading statements. Sentence 2 in point (1) in the OP, the idea that 1 FP or 5 Goods are worth 50 Diamonds is horrible advice, although INNO will appreciate it.

You've added more words explaining what you typed then you originally posted.

You keep stating players who have played for a couple weeks understand fundamentals of the game that you omit. Casual perusal of the Questions forum demonstrate you are wrong.

You're an awful writer who does not understand the meaning of what you type.

You don't have any documented experience with starting a world with these principles

You don't have any experience teaching new players.

And you refuse to listen to anyone.

Agent is asking the right question.

----------

And since I'm really bored, I wanna talk a bit about this:

(4) Concerning the 1 FP/tile guideline. It's a GUIDELINE, not a rule. For example, lets take a typical event building like the Abandoned Asylum. It provides 11 FP, 20 goods and 19 attack (the gold is more or less meaningless in the long run). If we equate 20 goods to 4 FP (see 3 above), then it is 15 FP + 19 attack. I generally rate +1% attack per tile as the target level (although this is not discussed in the guide). Therefore, the approximate value of the building is 34 for 25 tiles, which I admit is higher than a score of 25, but that is why it is a good building. Let's look at another, the Shrine of Knowledge. It gives 1/2 FP per tile when upgraded, so it is on the low end, but still on the same order. Let's look at another, the Crow's Nest. If we ignore the diamond/medal reward for the sake of simplicity we can value the building at 8 FP + 50% x 12 FP + 50% x 50 goods. If we value the 50 goods as 10 FP (per 3 above again), we can see the value of the building is 8 + 50% x 12 + 50% x 10 = 8 + 6 + 5 = 19, plus some gold and happiness, for a building that sits on 25 tiles. So, once again we can see the value of the building approaches 1 FP / tile. Overall, the better buildings tend to approach 1 FP / tile in the aggregate. I realize that in the beginning, players only have a few buildings that are this good. The 1 FP / tile is a TARGET, not a rule. For example, some GBs get much better than 1 FP / tile, so these tend to average out with the lower quality buildings. The point is to give the player a general goal, or foundation for what they should aim for, not create some hard law that is set in stone.

Lessee. About 4 times as long as the point in the OP. It's a crappy Guideline. We'll come back to that.

You chose fully upgraded Abandoned Asylum as an example. New players don't get fully upgraded Event Buildings. You didn't:

I have a level 2 Hanami Bridge which I got in the Spring 2020 event. It has some fond memories for me, because I just started playing and it was my first special building.

and your Guide does not say one word about how to do Events. So please no more talk of fully upgraded SBs for players who have played a couple weeks.

Then you discuss lvl 2 SoK. New players can't get that until what Era Antiques Dealer unlocks? Your Guide doesn't say!

You use the phrase 'the same order'. That has an exact meaning: within a factor of 10. Yes, .5 is within a factor of 10 of 1, as is .1. Your guideline now extends down to FP producers that produce 1 FP for 10 tiles. Is that your intent?

Then we look at another SB that new players can't get, but we'll ignore aspects for simplicity. Who ignores Diamond production? Ignoring the Diamonds and Medals throws the calculation off by 50%

The basis for your your 1:5:50 (now it;s a ratio) is the value INNO put in game for Diamonds

I'll say this again. Clearly. You do a massive disservice to players by using that ratio. INNO's valuation of Diamond purchasing power has nothing to do with the ability to produce those resources in game. Quit giving new players awful advice.

Oh wait, 1FP per tile is not just a GUIDELINE, it's a TARGET. That new players can't hit because they don't know how to do Events.

The bit aouut averaging GBs and SBs? How long did it take you to reach the 1 FP per tile average for your city? Trick question.*

Then you close with that you're giving players a goal. of 1 FP per tile. Although the OP still does not explicitly say that is the goal.

What is the first step on how to reach that goal? The step after that?

I dunno, but I do know I won't learn them in your Guide.



*It's obvious you have never done the calculation of FP per tile in your city or even thought about it. You would never have written that 1 FP per tile thing. You;re the one that said to average GBs and SBs...

A 10 x 10 Expansion city has 1600 tiles. Your goal is 1600 FP prodcution per day.

That's a Guide I want to read.

I'll wait.
 
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Vger

Well-Known Member
(3) Concerning the 1:5:50 ratio. I know that it is approximate and I said that in the guide. Especially at the high end past Future, the ratios change a little bit, and I said that in the guide also. One of the key reasons for this ratio is the way that GBs are funded and also research. The system charges about 8-10 diamonds per good, so that is a hard limit. Also, to buy FP it costs exactly 50 diamonds per FP. So, these are system enforced limits. So for Algona to claim that 1 FP does not equal 50 diamonds is unsupportable because that is the purchase equivalent in the system and you can access it by pushing the + button at the top of the screen. I hardly think I am being controversial when I set the trading ratios at exactly what the system allows the players to trade for.
I think you are conflating the concept of Price with the concept of Value. You know the Price Inno charges for goods and forge points, but have no grasp of their value. You aren't being controversial. You are just out of touch with reality.
 

UBERhelp1

Well-Known Member
tl;dr This is not a guide for new players. Before you react, read the rest of what I have to say.

If I was just starting out in the game, I would not know what half of the stuff you are talking about even is. You don't explain anything, instead you just give straight out strategies. It's like giving someone the equations to figure a problem out, but without explaining what any of the variables are. It's nice to have, but you can't use it effectively and it doesn't actually help someone.

You say that this is for new players, but then you mention getting to PE and then planning stuff - if you reach that point by rushing, you are going to be dead in the water long before then.

It might just be me, but a big list of tips is harder to understand than well thought out and explained strategies. I also feel like this is more of a list of opinions, more so than actual strategies. A lot of your "strategies" are arguable and not explained. I disagree with about a third of them, and some are just questionable at best.

For example, #16, I'd wonder if I should build that LoA or not. You said it's good, but then it isn't anymore? Why is that? Why would one person want to build it when another might not? What are alternatives? How should it be used? Etc.​
 
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