1. Cultural Settlement - Feudal Japan

    Arising from the Sengoku period of Feudal Japan, the clan of Akechi Mitsuhide has requested your help.
    As the Daimyo of his village, it is your task to lead the Feudal Japan to prosperity! Detailed information here!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Changelog 1.153

    Hello Queens and Kings,
    The update to 1.156 will take place on Wed, July 10, 2019. There will be a short period of downtime during the update, we apologize for any inconvenience caused during this time.
    For the detailed description of the upcoming changes, please see the details here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. GvG Improvements

    Hello Queens and Kings,
    We'd like to keep you updated on what we're planning to do, as we're about to get started on implementing the following improvements, and would love to hear some community insight into if you feel these additions address some of the fundamental issues GvG faces.
    For the detailed description of the upcoming changes, please see the details here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

Beware of Rengi, Inc

Discussion in 'Arvahall Drama' started by CurransLionMate, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. CurransLionMate

    CurransLionMate New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2018
    It seems that Bob, Mana41319 & VicinSea are now stealing a level 70 guild.
    After Bob stated he would do a 2 week trial & if JFF wasn't happy with anything he would step down and leave.
    Instead he got Mana41319, VicinSea and there new guild to move over to JFF then renamed the guild to
    Rengi, Inc. When the 2 weeks were up the old guild stated they wanted Bob & everyone to leave as he
    promised. Bob said "no" then kicked out the original guild members. He used the excuse that he took a
    vote (using the new members he made leader) and that it was 6 out of 6 so he was staying. To show there
    intend all you have to do is read this screen shot by VicinSea ( https://prnt.sc/n8uxni) as she states that they stole a lvl 70 guild.
    It is sad that Lighting (renamed JFF) took years to build there guild up to lvl 70 then to have it taken and thrown out.

    So A world pass it along so others can beware of this new Rengi tactic. Now if you want to join the revolution against the
    new FOE- Rengi, Inc please come along. We put out this calling to show you Rengi's new tactics & to set up a new world order.
    Us against them.... Call out your guild & we will contact you.
     
  2. Emberguard

    Emberguard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    Wait.... why were they even in a position to be able to steal the guild? If it's a trial why did they have that power in the first place?

    And looking at the screenshot it looks like there's a lot of missing context to this


    Edit: Ok re-reading it over I think I get the gist of what happened
    > Advanced players brought in to improve the guild on a trial agreement
    > Old guildies weren't stepping up to the standard the trial members wanted them to meet
    > Old guildies wanted the trial members to leave
    > Trial members kicked out the old members that weren't meeting the new standard instead
    > Guild is now under leadership of the trial members because for some reason trial meant founder status.....

    Why did they get founder status? If they were hired to be leaders they didn't need to be given founder or leader status. They could have been given moderator status for the trial period and then after it's agreed they're a good fit then given leader status

    Morals around keeping agreements aside if you give Founder status to anyone you've handed over deed and title to the guild. Whether they agreed to anything or not you gave them full ownership of the guild when you made them Founder
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  3. Manda the first

    Manda the first Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2016
    I don't know if it's a language barrier issue but I don't understand this at all. Someone can't steal a guild from the founder, yeah they can try to cause a mutiny but at the end of the day the founder can't be tossed out, they can do the tossing. Now are you saying someone was made leader, contacted support, lied about the founder being MIA and had the guild reigns handed over to them? Then that's something to take up with support but I'd hope they would be able to confirm the founder was in fact inactive before stripping them of their power.
     
    Lancer likes this.
  4. Emberguard

    Emberguard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    The system automatically passes Founder status to a Leader after 30 days of inactivity from the founder. No one would have had to contact support
     
    Manda the first likes this.
  5. helmet bro

    helmet bro New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2018
    I would actually like to address this because you are presenting a very 1-sided version of this. I was part of Rengi Inc and your sequence of events is very off from what happened. We were invited over by Bob because he and some of the leaders had agreed to a trial run, and that our leaders would be given leadership rights as well. When we came to the guild, the ONLY change was the daily m/p requirement (with some room for exceptions, obviously). There was IMMEDIATE hostility from some of the original members all because the only condition of the merger was that we would have Rengi in the name. The guild had become filled with many casual players who wanted all the perks of a high level guild but none of the responsibilities. The incoming Rengi players set up a lottery for original players where we donated our own FPs to them if they went 64/64 in GE (it worked out to be ~150-200 FPs each for 3 winning players), we picked up stagnant trades, boosted all GBs below level 3 to level 3 completely for free, and we tried everything we could to ensure a smooth transition.

    The issue is ultimately that players are resistant to change. And when the deadlock vote occurred and Bob refused to step down, one of the original leaders kicked all of the Rengi players, then left the guild. THAT was what prompted Bob to react. I was one of the people kicked in that tantrum and I am waiting to get back in, which is disappointing to me considering I donated around 400 FPs in just the couple weeks I was there. Vic is a very level-headed player, as are Bob and Mana. I can assure you that Vic's comments are addressing how it seemed like we "stole" a guild, but that was because a group of players did everything they could to cause a failure. Most of the players making these allegations are casual players who are mad that we had the audacity to require about 1 minute of effort from them each day in the form of m/p. I can see how it looks bad due to how the chips fell, but to dismiss the rampant hostility from people that agreed to give this trial a shot would be unfair.

    They agreed to a trial and then tried to make sure it failed, and when they didn't get their way they threw a tantrum and nearly broke a guild. I would be far more concerned with the attitudes of the original members than any of the Rengi players.
     
  6. icarusethan

    icarusethan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2017
    You know, all these casual players can unite however they want. The worst thing can happen is you guys have to deal with a mediocre ghost for a few weeks. So just ignore this guy and forge on.
     
  7. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    If Bob did state that it was a 2 week trial and that he would step down if the original members weren't happy at the end of it, then he should have kept his word.
    What exactly do you mean by "deadlock"? Was the vote just by the original members? If Bob had promised to step down if the original members didn't like the merge, then how is breaking that word not stealing a guild?

    This should be a cautionary tale for anyone considering a guild merger. I have been involved in two. One went very badly, the other went very well. The differences were too many to get into, but suffice it to say that you should always protect yourself before jumping into one, and never do it with people you don't know and trust.
     
    Lord Gliddenpath and Volodya like this.
  8. Emberguard

    Emberguard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    I was wondering what was with the rather sarcastic tone in the screenshot. That makes a lot more sense then


    And maybe don't promise to give up the guild you're in beforehand if there's going to be some condition in which you'd be unhappy to give it up. Also if someone doesn't want to merge keep them in the old guild so people can go back if something goes wrong


    @CurransLionMate @helmet bro
    So the guy that's supposed to have stepped down, Bob. Was the guild that was merged into his original guild? Or did he require to jump there for the merger? I'm a little confused as to why it was agreed he had to step down if it was his guild to begin with but that's what it sounds like. Of course a agreement is an agreement and should be adhered to, but it's a very strange deal on all sides.
     
  9. helmet bro

    helmet bro New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2018
    I don't know the full backstory of the old guild but my understanding is he is not the actual founder but a while back the founder stepped down and Bob took over. He has been leading them ever since and the leadership wanted to restore the old guild to glory. Vic and Mana are leaders from Rengi and offered the proposal that Bob accept the Rengi group they lead, and he was able to convince his guild to agree to a trial. His offer was that if the trial wasn't successful then he would step down. Again, the issue was ultimately that a couple of people that voted against the trial and lost made sure the trial failed. So when the leadership reconvened and voted to a 6-6 deadlock (with Vic and Mana being involved in the vote that the Rengi would be allowed to stay, as was agreed to), Bob refused to step down. Before anything could be worked out, one of the leaders voting against kicked all the non-leadership Rengi players and then left the guild. I haven't been back yet since I'm currently sitting in Rengi Alliance but my understanding is that Bob kicked any loyalists to this one player that lead the mutiny. Since Rengi is a well-known group, the assumption by those on the outside is that we did something shady.

    As with most stories, there are multiple sides, and in this occasion the Rengi did far less to cause a rift compared to the couple of bad eggs from the original guild. My main point is that players are resistant to change, and this is a better example of the difficulty of being a guild leader. I had some personal discussions with Bob since I am a leader of my guild on another world and I offered to help any way I could. Bob's request of me and any other Rengi was to just be courteous and understanding, and to shower the old guild with gifts as is standard for Rengi guilds. We did just that, and most of them came around to us being there. The only people who are complaining are the people that didn't get their way and tried to make this arrangement fail from day 1. Overall, Bob is a very patient and courteous player. The first day we joined there were old guild members openly attacking him in the guild thread. He was kind to all of them, and addressed their concerns publicly and invited them to PM him should they want to talk further. Nothing he did during my time there would make me think he's unreasonable, but I witnessed first-hand some of these old "leader" intentionally picking fights, yelling at Rengi players, and trying to drive us away. We were told privately by Vic and Mana to let Bob handle them since it was clear that despite our good intentions some players were looking for any reason to cause a problem.
     
  10. icarusethan

    icarusethan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2017
    Casual players lost the guild and wanted to revenge. Failing or going to fail eventually and become irrelevant. End of the story. Stop putting energy on people who don’t really mater.
     
  11. CurransLionMate

    CurransLionMate New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2018
    The bottom line is..... Bob agreed to leave after 2 weeks if the original members where not happy. He stepped into there level 70 guild with that agreement. A level 70 guild that took a long time to get there. Both Mana & VicinSea had made there own guild but abandoned it ( only a lvl 17) as fast as they could to join the old Lighting guild. It doesn't matter how much someone m/p another player or how many pts someone put into a GB. If you agree to leave after 2 weeks IF THE ORIGINAL MEMBERS ARE NOT HAPPY THEN YOU LEAVE......PERIOD..... Since they weren't happy they did what was agreed... but Bob would not only step down he went in and booted all the old members before they could finish booting out the new ones as agreed. Now if you go to there guild page it says they are the #1 GVG guild in A world. The only problem with that saying..... They are taking the old Lighting 194 days in first place. So in the end they stole a guild and are now using the old guilds stats and claiming them for there own. I guess once a cheater always a cheater.
     
  12. Manda the first

    Manda the first Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2016
    The reason this story does not make sense is where is the FOUNDER? I don't mean whoever originally founded the guild I mean the person with founder stats. Founder can't be booted by a leader founder boots the leaders. It's not some abstract concept of power it's part of the mechanics of the game.

    If your founder handed over his literal crown Screen Shot 2019-04-17 at 8.46.06 PM.png to some newcomer and stepped himself down to leader he didn't just hand over control during the trial run he handed over OWNERSHIP. There is literally no reason to have done that, leader stats give a person everything they need in order to lead the ONLY things leaders can't do is dissolve the guild and STEAL THE GUILD FROM THE FOUNDER.

    Unless your founder was so inept at game mechanics he handed over his founder stats which means like it or not he handed over ownership of the guild that moment, to virtual strangers or they played some kind of con game with support it is not possible for a leader to steal a guild from a founder. A leader cannot grant themselves founder rights those can only come from the founder or support.

    If the founder is still there then the solution is easy, he/she boots everyone even if they get into a boot off with the new leaders (start with them first then go down the line) wait 1 week, lonely, and invites their original members back in. Since the founder is the only one who can't be booted by a leader, they win the boot off no matter how many the leaders get in, founder will be the last one standing.

    If your founder handed off his rights to a 70 whatever level guild right off the bat then you are better off. If someone comes to test drive your ferrari and says 'Hey I know this is just a test but better sign the title over to me just in case' and you do it...
     
  13. freshmeboy

    freshmeboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2017
    Been here and done this before several times..only one merger turned out the way it was planned. From temporary step downs for real life issues to importing new active blood, these mergers can go awry unless you put this in writing. Send a mass PM to all players explaining all the details- KEEP A COPY. Screenshot it and have a trusted member do the same. I served as an intermediary to try to settle a merger dispute and without time stamped PROOF the devs would not install the original founder. They have the power to do this but you must have your ducks lined up. It's a shame to see another one here in FoE...
     
  14. bobwwooodall

    bobwwooodall New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2019
    For what it's worth, I was a happy member in the Chosen one guild when I was asked about a merger. I am only one person so I'm not sure how it is a merger when I join a guild. Nonetheless, after some consideration I decided I would join if and only if I was made the sole founder. I clearly explained that being a founder of a successful guild is a lot of work. There are no circumstances in which I would put in the time required to revive a near-dead guild unless I was in position to do things my way. I explained in detail exactly how I would run the guild and the old Founder agreed but was worried about the possibility that I might not follow through on my promises. For peace of mind, I said that I would add 30 new members and increase the speed of the 190% thread in less than 2 weeks or I would leave on my own accord. I successfully accomplished those goals in about 24 hours. Things went sour however, when I changed the name of the guild - but seemed to settle quickly or at least that's what I thought. Then after I had been in the guild for about 2 weeks the old founder asked me to step down and restore the founder rights. I was very surprised because from my perspective the merger had been a huge success and everyone seemed happy. Still I would not want to be the founder in a guild where the people didn't want me to have that position. So I suggested a vote. The vote went unanimously in my favor but the old leaders/founder chose not vote. When it became apparent that the vote was going to go in my direction the old leaders started kicking innocent people from the guild. For this reason I kicked out those individuals. One person subsequently left the guild and the rest still remain. It was an unfortunate situation all around. I was however, forthright and honest and would consider showing the negotiations or voting thread as proof. It should be noted that Mana41319 and VicinSea joined the guild after the "merger." The screen shot of the VicinSea conversation I'm assume are the actual thoughts and beliefs of VicinSea but it's complete non-sense. Not one person in that conversation was involved with the negotiation. If you want to know the facts please find me. I have not surreptitiously stolen a guild and I have nothing to hide.
     
  15. freshmeboy

    freshmeboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2017
    Well, Bob, regardless of your good intentions, hard work and success, the original founder asked for his guild back, correct..? That was part of the agreement, correct..? So why suggest a vote...? What does voting have to do with an agreement between the old founder and you..? was it originally part of the agreement...? If not, then stepping down was the ONLY right move. I played mediator in a similar scenario except the founder had RL issues... Slated to return in three months, he was denied his original status and voted out by the new regime. Voted and booted from the league he created and nurtured and for three years. It was finally resolved but not without players quitting or leaving and a lot of bad blood. Sorry, man, but a deal is a deal..and you broke it..
     
  16. Emberguard

    Emberguard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    That's not what bob just posted, but it's plausible it could have been.

    It works both ways. If Bob fulfilled the entire agreement conditions to stay then the original founder has no right to ask for it back. On the other hand if part of the agreement was the founder could ask for it back for any reason then Bob should hand it back

    From what they said the vote was to evaluate what the guild thought of his work and whether he was welcome
     
  17. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    We have two versions of the agreement being stated. Bob says there were certain things he promised to accomplish. The other version is that the original guild members had to be happy with the "merge". No way of knowing which is accurate.
     
  18. bobwwooodall

    bobwwooodall New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2019
    If I'm not mistaken the original founder left the guild more than 2 years ago? Then the second founder left the guild a few months back. I'm not certain on that history because most of it goes back to before I started playing the game but the founder before myself had only been founder for a few months. When I joined the guild there were only 11 people in the guild and the only thing that appeared on the main chat were the people that joined and left the guild over the past few months.

    To be clear I did not break any agreement. I did not at any point say that I would give the guild back if the previous founder asked for it. I said I would leave if I was not successfully able to add 30 new members and improve the 190% thread. My words were calculated such that I was not the person that took the risk because I knew people that had already expressed interest in joining. It is possible that people misunderstood the negotiations but I did exactly what I said I would do. On a positive note, the guild is currently very active and very happy. We have room to improve but don't worry we will!
     
  19. Vicinsea

    Vicinsea New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2018
    Greetings! I am Vic! I am sorry this has been aired here.


    How do we decide who ownes a guild? Is the owner the shell player that was left behind when the rest of the players moved to more active guild? Or, is the owner the players that join. a guild, and make it rock under a chosen Founder?

    JFF was a dead guild. A few players wanted something better and asked for help from Bob. He agreed and applied the best help possible, FoE-Rengi Family status. 190 drops for every position, Stix to Brix 0-3, nearly free BP for any building, Free Trade...get any goods you need, experienced advice and genuine concern for helping guild members.

    Old members rejected all of that because we also expect members to complete 48/48, take trades in your age , mo/mo, and help build Stix.

    I am sorry the old members could not accept these very simple requirements. I am also sorry that the players left behind in this guild were bottom tier of D*Ks players.

    This guild was not stolen. This guild was given away. If there is anyone to be mad at...it is the fools left in charge.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
    Stay Rita and Emberguard like this.
  20. Vicinsea

    Vicinsea New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2018
    Also, we are currently accepting players IA and up. GE and mo/po required. We will help with GE!
     

Top