Buildings Statistics

Rhidasglein

Active Member
1) How much support the buildings in a city will need varies wildly according to city plan. Some are much more efficient, some less so. Moreover, you might be able to get more use out of two lane roads by placing them in a zig zag pattern so you have more surface area to work with. Given your sketches, each two lane road segment is connected on four squares to other 2-lane road segments, leaving only 4 squares to connect stuff that needs it. If you zig-zag the road you might be able to only connect each square of two lane road on 2 squares to other 2-lane road segments, tus allowing 6-squares of the 2-lane road segment to connect to buildings which require two-lane roads. Regardless, until now, you did not take anything else into account other then the size of the structures themselves when computing per square efficiency, and that seemed like a good rule to follow.
2-lane roads have to be doubly connected to work - that is, both squares on a side have to be connected to the same thing, either another piece of 2-lane road or the town hall. I doubt zig-zagging the roads would help, but it won't work anyway.
 

HaekelHansi

......2) If you are going to change over and base your formulas on support for structures (such as roads) when calculating efficiency per square, then when making this calculation for the structures that require one lane roads you should still calculate some support, it should just be less. Perhaps, since it is possible for such structures to be one both sides of a 1-lane road, instead of each structure taking up a full side of a 2-lane road, you could add in half the shortest side for structures requiring a one-lane road.
hmm, but by adding the shortest side of a 2-lane-road-building to it's total space need, I have technically reduced the 2 lane roads to a one-lane road and thus cancelled the disadvantage over 1-lane-road-buildings.

But maybe I didn't quite get your point, can you make some examples please of how your idea would function?
 

gwalchmai

Well-Known Member
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX
RRRRRRRR
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX

X = Colonial age building (4 of them on one side of a road, 4 on another), R = single lane road (8 squares). So in order to supply 8 colonial age buildings we need 8 squares of road. One square of road each needs to be dedicated, which is half of the shortest side of the buildings (the shortest side is 2 squares). Granted, this looks off because R's have less width then X's, but it is 8 R's and 8 X's long.

XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX

X = Industrial age building (3x2), R = single lane road. Here we see that 8 squares of road can also supply 8 industrial age buildings wiht sufficient connection to city hall (assuming the rest of the road is just as efficient, or that this connects up to city hall directly). In any case, again, the added road surface needed is equal to 1 square per building or half of the smallest side.

Now for the Progressive age buildings that require one lane roads:
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX
XXXRXXX

6 3x3 buildings depicted (3 on each side of the road), 9 total road squares needed, so 1.5 road squares needed per building, which is half of the shortest side.


However, for the progressive age building which requires 2-lane roads we get:
XXXRRXXX
XXXRRXXX
XXXRRXXX
XXXRRXXX
XXXRRXXX
XXXRRXXX

4 buildings depicted (2 on each side of the road) requiring 12 squares of 2-lane road, or 3 squares per building, meaning that you need to add the full length of the shortest side, not half the length.

This is due to the fact that each building requiring of regular road can share those squares with a building on the other side (if the city is laid out efficiently), whereas each building requiring 2-lane road will also be able to share those squares with a building on the other side, but since th road takes up two lanes in width, each square of width (in this case, length if the layourt were more horizontal) of the 2 lane road can only be devoted to one building, not shared.

And yes, generally buildings will need to have the full length of one side hit by a road because the road will need to connect more things past them and more things before. A building at the end of a road only needs to connect up to one square of road though, regardless of the size of the building, so that lets you make it a bit more efficient, but when you need to bend a road to get to city hall you often lose some efficiency.
 

Megamieuwsel

I think you made a mistake in your calculation for the PA supplies; The Garage delivers 90.625 supplies/sq.
That makes it the most space-efficient (non-premium) supplier.

But then again; I didn't count the extra room for a two-lane.
I could argue against includng it, though: You gonna need 'em anyway, so might as well take 'em for granted.

Edit
And I checked: There's no need for the garages to touch the two-lanes over an entire side; a single square touching is enough for them to function.
So: Two pieces of Two-Lanes can "feed" four garages.(One on each side of the road and two sharing the "head".
 
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HaekelHansi

The introduction of 2-lane streets is really making things complicated to compare. You can't just break it down to "two 2-lanes feed 4 Garages", I don't think that setup will be found very often. You'll need to start from the town hall, and surely you'll want to continue from the end of your 2-lane highway, either with 1-lanes or with more 2-lanes to feed more stuff like goods or military buildings. Another thing to consider is the loss of happiness which you can make up with for example an electricity plant at 5x5 (as depicted earlier in this thread, post #86). So in this example, you'll need 30 2-lane streets to feed 41 Highrisers, not just 20 or 21. I'm sure, with some effort, you could get it down to maybe 28, but never to a ration of 1:2. And once you have that setup, you are going to be flooded with coins.

Another suggestion was to add 1 square to the regular roads' space need, if I already add a side to the new ones.

I'm trying to keep the tables as readable and comparable as possible, so I am NOT going to tamper with the already existing buildings. We can however negotiate about the formula for 2-lane buildings: Is adding the shortest side too much? Or too little? How much would be perfect? Keep in mind things change from town to town, depending on how people set up their cities. What the table currently shows is that 2-lane buildings definitely aren't as bad as their reputation.
 
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Bastion

Member
I think the best thing to do is keep the ratios to only the building's space, if a building is 5x5, then not adding the road to determine their productivity is the best option, because you can't determine the individuals road setup. If a person can find a way to feed three buildings off of a 2x2 section of road, more power to them. If they instead use seven blocks of road for the buildings, then the data isn't accurate for them.
 

Megamieuwsel

Bastion makes an excellent point.

Let's face it; If one wants to "keep up" in PA (s)he MUST use two-lanes. There's no way around it.
With that a given, the bare value is all you can go by and will, in the end,be the only thing that matters.

With PA "in town" the easy, non-polishable "happy-stuff" that is roads is becoming obselete and the players will be forced to invest in Culturals a little more to stay competetative.

I think adding a little # (or whatever is handy) to indicate a building needs 2-lane-access should be sufficient to inform the masses.
I mean: if they don't realise the implications of it, they're not really "competition" anyway...;)
 
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Rhidasglein

Active Member
Let's face it; If one wants to "keep up" in PA (s)he MUST use two-lanes. There's no way around it.
A handful, maybe, but not your entire city. Only two military buildings, one each of housing, supply, and culture, and the goods buildings need them; you can use great buildings for goods, use the Capitol to let you use council houses, ignore the garage and electricity plant, and have one tarmac to hook up a tank factory or two. Alternately, use diamonds to get art nouveau houses and skip the Capitol step. Either of those cities would still be competitive. And if you got enough tanks off the wheel and can revive them with diamonds, you can skip the tank factory and use the free ones, no two-lane required.
 

HaekelHansi

Updated the Progressive Era buildings with points per building and added some more special buildings to the "Other Constructions" table.
 

JamesBondage

Was the name of this thread changed? I had a hard time finding it.
 

JamesBondage

=/ Had the opposite effect for me. I was worried this had been deleted when I couldn't find the long name it used to be. Eventually I ctrl+f'd haekel's name and stared at the name for a few seconds before deciding to check to see if it was the one.

That being said, I am really glad the questions and guides were separated. That needed to happen =)
 

JamesBondage

Hey amigo, just wondering if you're planning to update these pictures with the new age's buildings?
 

hrsegrrl

I have to second James' question. Will the stats for Modern Era buildings be up in the near future? I'm trying to plan ahead some. ;)
 

DeM2

The bug Huntsman is on Vacation, I am sure he will update the Guide with the ME data as soon as possible.
 

ITown

Well-Known Member
I was examining the production/sq values of the PE supplies buildings, and I determined that he's not calculating it properly.

If HakaelHansi wants to add +1 onto one side of a garage, then he needs to also add 0.5 to a side of the other supply buildings. This gives much different values:

Garage: 1450/20 = 72.5
Lamp Factory: 1510/19.5 = 77.4 (if you put the short side by the road) OR 1510/21 = 71.9 (if you put the long side by the road)
Cattle Ranch: 3100/45 = 68.9 (short side) OR 3100/45.5 = 68.1

So one might say that the lamp factory isn't nearly as great as it looks. In fact, garages are better unless the lamp factories are arranged such that the short side touches the road.


The simpler way to perform these calculations is to instead add 0.5 to a side of the buildings that use a 2-lane road (to avoid needing to recalculate every building BA-PE)

This gives you 80.6 for garages, which again illustrates the tiny difference between garages and lamp factories.

However, my initial calculation provides the most accurate account of the differences. In that case, to get the correct output/tile, one needs to recalculate every coin, happiness, and production building's efficiency. Your call, if you wish to do that.
 

Crusader78

New Member
Still not updated

The bug Huntsman is on Vacation, I am sure he will update the Guide with the ME data as soon as possible.
Must be a nice long vacation, must be nice, have not had any vacation since I was in High School (graduate in 97).