Change to Proposal Requirements feedback

Stephen Longshanks

Well-Known Member
If you have any questions, concerns or comments about the announced change to proposal format requirements, please post them here. You can find the announcement of this change here.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
I do not really have a question about the announced change, but I do have a question about proposals.

On the EN server they recently updated the DNSL based on a global list that every server may put on their forums. Any chance it will be used here as well?
 

Stephen Longshanks

Well-Known Member
I do not really have a question about the announced change, but I do have a question about proposals.

On the EN server they recently updated the DNSL based on a global list that every server may put on their forums. Any chance it will be used here as well?
I do not know, but I will check out what they've done and see what my superiors think. I appreciate the question, as I don't frequent other servers' Forums.

Update: I have accessed the list you referenced, and am in the process of comparing it to ours. It looks at first glance like a hybrid of that list and ours might be the way to go.
 
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RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
I've no issues with this. I will point out that most of the unformatted proposals seem to be of the 'drop a card in the suggestion box' nature. In other words, not really serious proposals, just someone coming by to drop in a complaint card, never to be heard from again. Seems to me, not every complaint card needs a response, especially the ones we've all seen over and over again.

Take the 'Still no Aid all' proposal. I'm doubtful the OP will even be back to check. They dropped their suggestion into the box, they're done. Imagine if the first person to respond were to simply ask, "How is this good for the game?" Then we all wait for a response from the OP before engaging? How many would simply die right there, no comments needed?

It will never happen, but it's a fun thought experiment. Carry on.
 

Jern2017

Well-Known Member
I liked the old system. Properly formatted proposals were always clear. The new system will probably make the thread even more active, though. Someone will post something in the lines of "Hey, I think this is a good idea. They need to implement it!" and other players will chime in with their opinions on details, possible abuse concerns etc.

I do think certain proposals never needed proper format, because it was possible to propose and explain them in a sentence or two.
 

DreadfulCadillac

Well-Known Member
I liked the old system. Properly formatted proposals were always clear. The new system will probably make the thread even more active, though. Someone will post something in the lines of "Hey, I think this is a good idea. They need to implement it!" and other players will chime in with their opinions on details, possible abuse concerns etc.

I do think certain proposals never needed proper format, because it was possible to propose and explain them in a sentence or two.
YEYEYEYEYEYEYEYEYEYEYEYEYE
hear the wisdom people!!!!
 

Stephen Longshanks

Well-Known Member
ok, but im still allowed to use the old format if i have a new proposal , yes?cause i LOVE the old format:)
@Stephen Longshanks
I liked the old system. Properly formatted proposals were always clear. The new system will probably make the thread even more active, though. Someone will post something in the lines of "Hey, I think this is a good idea. They need to implement it!" and other players will chime in with their opinions on details, possible abuse concerns etc.

I do think certain proposals never needed proper format, because it was possible to propose and explain them in a sentence or two.
I liked the format also, but sometimes a proposed change can be made clear without it, as you say. The main reason for the change from my standpoint was to help keep the focus on the proposal itself and not continue to get sidetracked by the form. And I still encourage use of the format personally, as following it does tend to make a person think about what they're proposing.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
Update: I have accessed the list you referenced, and am in the process of comparing it to ours. It looks at first glance like a hybrid of that list and ours might be the way to go.
Not really a hybrid.

I have been arguing how I could put up a proposal on one server forum, but not on another. Urged them to take all language worlds and come up with one DNSL. So it looks like a hybrid, cause they also used what not to suggest from this forum. Yours is about 80% of this one. In order to be fair on players proposing and those discussing and trying to help it should be one list for all language servers.
 

Stephen Longshanks

Well-Known Member
Not really a hybrid.

I have been arguing how I could put up a proposal on one server forum, but not on another. Urged them to take all language worlds and come up with one DNSL. So it looks like a hybrid, cause they also used what not to suggest from this forum. Yours is about 80% of this one. In order to be fair on players proposing and those discussing and trying to help it should be one list for all language servers.
I'm not saying that the other list is a hybrid, I'm saying that if we change ours, it will probably incorporate some of that list into ours rather than simply replace it. Some of the items on our list are there in light of the dynamics of this Forum, which are probably different from the dynamics of the Forums of other servers. A generic solution is not always the best one.
 

Jern2017

Well-Known Member
I liked the format also, but sometimes a proposed change can be made clear without it, as you say. The main reason for the change from my standpoint was to help keep the focus on the proposal itself and not continue to get sidetracked by the form. And I still encourage use of the format personally, as following it does tend to make a person think about what they're proposing.
Well said. I completely agree.

I must say that I'm most excited about not seeing people spam "steps of a proposal..." or "please place this in proper proposal format..." anymore.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
I'm not saying that the other list is a hybrid, I'm saying that if we change ours, it will probably incorporate some of that list into ours rather than simply replace it. Some of the items on our list are there in light of the dynamics of this Forum, which are probably different from the dynamics of the Forums of other servers. A generic solution is always the best one.
Is it fair to give forum dynamics priority when you know that, result will be that submitted proposals did not have a chance from the start and you knew that? The other lists is more clear on GvG and GB's for instance. No suggestions for new GB's for instance. So why not put it on the list here as well, or do you believe that he devs will say, okay this one comes from the US forum, so we will make an exception?
 

Stephen Longshanks

Well-Known Member
Is it fair to give forum dynamics priority when you know that, result will be that submitted proposals did not have a chance from the start and you knew that? The other lists is more clear on GvG and GB's for instance. No suggestions for new GB's for instance. So why not put it on the list here as well, or do you believe that he devs will say, okay this one comes from the US forum, so we will make an exception?
Could you please wait until you see what we come up with before you criticize decisions that you haven't seen yet? When/if we amend our DNSL, we will provide a feedback thread like this for that. Please hold any more comments about that until then, so we can keep this feedback thread focused on the Proposal Format change. Thanks. (I do appreciate you bringing this to our attention.)
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
Could you please wait until you see what we come up with before you criticize decisions that you haven't seen yet? When/if we amend our DNSL, we will provide a feedback thread like this for that. Please hold any more comments about that until then, so we can keep this feedback thread focused on the Proposal Format change. Thanks. (I do appreciate you bringing this to our attention.)
I am not criticizing anything. I am just pointing something out. That is called feedback. What you do with it is up to you. You turn it into a discussion by bringing up forum dynamics.

As far as the proposal format goes I think it is a great idea. Saves me from posting my list and you from deleting it time and time again.
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure this will really make proposals a more inviting place to tread. It takes one bullet out of the 'chase away the newbie' gun, but the regulars have many more. I think the main issue is that people take that subforum so seriously - that if they don't belittle every bad idea somehow it might actually make it into the game - this despite there being two more levels of checks after that (it has to pass a vote for a developer to even see it, developers have to decide it's good for the game (and I'm not sure they've EVER made a change connected to a proposal other than by coincidence)).
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
I'm not sure this will really make proposals a more inviting place to tread. It takes one bullet out of the 'chase away the newbie' gun, but the regulars have many more. I think the main issue is that people take that subforum so seriously - that if they don't belittle every bad idea somehow it might actually make it into the game - this despite there being two more levels of checks after that (it has to pass a vote for a developer to even see it, developers have to decide it's good for the game (and I'm not sure they've EVER made a change connected to a proposal other than by coincidence)).
Look at it in a different way. It is developers that have decided they will not look at these ideas. It is only fair to players that they know that suggesting these ideas will be useless. Still means 98% will not read it before they come up with their briliant idea, so in the end, all that changes is that more proposals will be locked right away.