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Changelog 1.118 Feedback

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Remember that a lot of the game is designed around the intent that players are continually advancing in all areas of their gameplay. Sitting in one age for an extended period (end of tech excluded, obviously) is a player-created strategy for those who feel that things move too quickly with a constant focus on research. Scouting isn't really a problem until you sit in an age long enough to run yourself out of provinces you can realistically acquire/complete, making the ability to unlock additional provinces to scout more difficult. This goes hand-in-hand with the 'problem' that individual sectors are difficult/costly to acquire for these same people.

You have one of two options: 1) Continue advancing your city in order to get the resources required to obtain these provinces more easily, or 2) Stay put tech-wise and ignore tasks that ask for map progress if it's too difficult for you (with the addition for some players of coming to forums to complain about these tasks). Since the intended goal of the game is to advance your city, I personally feel that map tasks are perfectly acceptable because under normal circumstances, the map should not be overly difficult to work on since you're advancing your technology at a similar rate that you're acquiring provinces. In fact, since it's possible to get such high passive FP generation these days (and there is no way to speed up scouting besides paying the 50 diamonds) it should be the case that research is completed FASTER than map provinces are scouted and obtained. It just happens to be that players end up digging holes for themselves by staying in lower ages for too long.

As an example, with my FP generation I can research through the entire Oceanic Future tree in about three weeks. Oceanic Future has a total of 70 provinces to acquire. Even if the scout time for each province was only 8 hours (it's not), I'd still finish research first. Again, this is just an example of how easy it is to (be able to) clear research much faster than map provinces and not indicative of how everyone's game is; just showing that the potential is there and that, to be blunt, if you have difficulty with map-related tasks due to an age gap it's pretty much your own fault.
 

Dbrdmkr

New Member
The daily challenge: I do not always "do" the daily challenge as it interferes with other goals I have in mind. So if the minus a point which each incompletion, would stop me from doing them ever, I would constantly be trying to catch up. I fact you do not get the prize offered is a punishment for not completing the challenge. Taking away a point is a double punishment. Therefore each day you try and cannot or do not complete the daily quests, you go negative, Therefore each time you try you will have to work twice, thirce , etc, times as hard to actually get the 7 point accumulated for a challengers chest. Not a very fair system for everyone.
 

Dbrdmkr

New Member
I dont think they'll work like that.
According to Changelog 1.117 its stated under the DC bugfixes that

So if 'gain happiness' and ' gain pops' did count as 2 tasks instead of 1 if there was a same task like that in DC and RQ,
then why should quest tasks like UBQ ('spend/pay X coins' or 'spend/pay Y supplies') be ignored?
now they're(Gain Happiness/Pops) both not there, they'll definitely apply this for UBQ as well.

https://us0.forgeofempires.com/page/media/news/changelog+1.117/


In fact I liked those DC challenges:(. Those were the easiest ones and the time consuming ones to finish, if u had 2x2 tile and if you're running short on supplies and coins; hoping to get something rewarding from solving that type of DC;
they make me sit in front of the game for a while depending on how much task says to get. Build-Sell-Repeat.

idk how INNO considered them as "Counter Productive".

I agree - time consuming but possible. not a good aspect to remove, but I have found inno likes to force the purchase of $$$ through the sale of specials, diamonds, and of course advancements. So, this is another pocket "plunder". Don't worry, the more people complain the more we will be told to suck it up. That is the way the game is.
 

Dbrdmkr

New Member
Remember that a lot of the game is designed around the intent that players are continually advancing in all areas of their gameplay. Sitting in one age for an extended period (end of tech excluded, obviously) is a player-created strategy for those who feel that things move too quickly with a constant focus on research. Scouting isn't really a problem until you sit in an age long enough to run yourself out of provinces you can realistically acquire/complete, making the ability to unlock additional provinces to scout more difficult. This goes hand-in-hand with the 'problem' that individual sectors are difficult/costly to acquire for these same people.

You have one of two options: 1) Continue advancing your city in order to get the resources required to obtain these provinces more easily, or 2) Stay put tech-wise and ignore tasks that ask for map progress if it's too difficult for you (with the addition for some players of coming to forums to complain about these tasks). Since the intended goal of the game is to advance your city, I personally feel that map tasks are perfectly acceptable because under normal circumstances, the map should not be overly difficult to work on since you're advancing your technology at a similar rate that you're acquiring provinces. In fact, since it's possible to get such high passive FP generation these days (and there is no way to speed up scouting besides paying the 50 diamonds) it should be the case that research is completed FASTER than map provinces are scouted and obtained. It just happens to be that players end up digging holes for themselves by staying in lower ages for too long.

As an example, with my FP generation I can research through the entire Oceanic Future tree in about three weeks. Oceanic Future has a total of 70 provinces to acquire. Even if the scout time for each province was only 8 hours (it's not), I'd still finish research first. Again, this is just an example of how easy it is to (be able to) clear research much faster than map provinces and not indicative of how everyone's game is; just showing that the potential is there and that, to be blunt, if you have difficulty with map-related tasks due to an age gap it's pretty much your own fault.


consider this though every level the city advances allows every thief already at that level to plunder the H++L out of the up and coming player. Don't speak of military most levels do not get the military for the level until they are about mid way through. So great you move up - fun- the game leads you toward that I agree, but losing everything because you are the little guy on the block stinks.
 

Dbrdmkr

New Member
Well, at the very least, a point shouldn't be taken away if you don't even attempt one, but I would certainly not be complaining if this change went into affect for all of the daily misses!

So you would like a negative each time you missed a challenge? So, the next time you attempt one you are further behind than ahead? It will be as if you went back a day and started again. Each day missed you will be going back a day, then after awhile you start with a negative number. That should be fun.
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
I was suggesting for DC, but yeah for event, when you get mandatory Scout/Acquire/Tech, it will be up to the player to consider Cost/Rewards. In anycase, at-least Inno has been lately good about providing alt paths, not always but something is better than nothing.

Inno requires that you gain control over a province with no alternatives. The only way you can do that is to scout one first. And in the meantime, the DCs give you the "conquer # sectors" as part of challenges that, if you did consistently, you'd end up prematurely taking control over those provinces, so you basically have to skip them, which penalizes you... until you finally take that province when the event asks you to. Then you start all over again the next time an event asks you to. And they are regularly doing so enough that it's a major hindrance to the DC game.
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
So you would like a negative each time you missed a challenge? So, the next time you attempt one you are further behind than ahead? It will be as if you went back a day and started again. Each day missed you will be going back a day, then after awhile you start with a negative number. That should be fun.

You didn't read what I wrote, apparently. I actually said the opposite of what you think I did.
 

DeletedUser31882

"We also want to decide if not withdrawing a progress point when not completing a challenge makes sense."

Yes, It makes sense. Especially for people who do not play everyday.
The current system pushes a player to play everyday AND complete the RNG DC tasks to get a +1.
If the intent is to maximize player login with dailies, but also retain the punishment for failing a challenge, a potential middle ground is to remove the -1 for players who do not choose a DC chest. That way a player can decide to pursue a +1 with a risk of a -1, or just take a day off.
 

DeletedUser31498

"We have seen that the "gain population" and "gain happiness" tasks from the Daily Challenges were counter productive for many, and have removed those as a result. The mysterious questgiver may now ask for donations of coins and supplies instead."

"counter productive " LOL... Yes folks build and destroy items from inventory especially for happiness. I'd say it was a GREAT use of FOA and GSO and other stuff that is of no use to many folks.

Speaking of "counter productive ", due to DC, most cities have multiple blacksmiths to complete ton of production quests e.g. 33 4hr production, 55 5 mins etc.

Seriously I can't agree more. In the scope of "counter productive for many", the pop and happiness seems pretty far down the list. boring, easy, repetitive, sure, but weird decision to make by INNO
 

Rabbi.

Member
I find both DC and Events easy to complete, but that is because I am at the end of the Tech and Continent in Cirgard US world. I strongly suggest players to get to the end of Tech and Maps to fully enjoy the game. In the break till developers add new Era/Age or another part I can accumulate FPs and level my GBs.

In those worlds where I did not finish the Tech and Continent maps I struggle to finish events and DC and GE is almost impossible to finish. Eliminating the -1 in DC will be really nice though.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
"We also want to decide if not withdrawing a progress point when not completing a challenge makes sense."

Yes, It makes sense. Especially for people who do not play everyday.
The current system pushes a player to play everyday AND complete the RNG DC tasks to get a +1.

Respectfully disagree.

I think they soould keep the -1 penalty for attenpting a chest and not fulfilling it.

I believe that not selecting a chest should have no penalty.

For some reason that rubs my sense of 'reasonableness' the right way. Succeed +1. not try no change, fail -1.

But if INNO wants make it even easier for me to win SoK, who am I to argue with them?
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
I strongly suggest players to get to the end of Tech and Maps to fully enjoy the game.

But I'm having lots of fun right where I am!

In the break till developers add new Era/Age or another part I can accumulate FPs and level my GBs.

I can do that too... don't need to be at the end of the tech tree for that!

In those worlds where I did not finish the Tech and Continent maps I struggle to finish events and DC and GE is almost impossible to finish.

That's unfortunate. I don't struggle with either and I have finished level 4 of GE every week since it was released. It sounds like what you did was play the "standard" way... which is totally fine if that's the way you've chosen to play. Honestly, though... anyone can figure out how to do that by just showing up! It's not as much of a challenge as it is a tedium. I don't know that the advice given is necessarily universally true. It may have worked well for you to complete all tech and provinces, but that's not the only way to play and my advice in opposition would be to pick an age/era you enjoy and camp the hell out of it until you get bored... at which time, you should hopefully be more than ready to rinse and repeat in the next age/era you choose! There's absolutely no reason to rush if you aren't ready to. People get bullied worse the higher they get when underdeveloped. Take that 2¢ and turn it into a million bucks! ;)
 

DeletedUser

Respectfully disagree.

I think they soould keep the -1 penalty for attenpting a chest and not fulfilling it.

I believe that not selecting a chest should have no penalty.

For some reason that rubs my sense of 'reasonableness' the right way. Succeed +1. not try no change, fail -1.

But if INNO wants make it even easier for me to win SoK, who am I to argue with them?
If you read his entire post, he goes on to say that...
If the intent is to maximize player login with dailies, but also retain the punishment for failing a challenge, a potential middle ground is to remove the -1 for players who do not choose a DC chest. That way a player can decide to pursue a +1 with a risk of a -1, or just take a day off.
 

DeletedUser27889

Respectfully disagree.

I think they soould keep the -1 penalty for attenpting a chest and not fulfilling it.

I believe that not selecting a chest should have no penalty.

For some reason that rubs my sense of 'reasonableness' the right way. Succeed +1. not try no change, fail -1.

But if INNO wants make it even easier for me to win SoK, who am I to argue with them?
I would agree with you 100% if you could see the tasks in the challenge before selecting a chest or agreeing to attempt it.

If I have no idea what the chest is going to ask of me, how would I know if I stand a chance at accomplishing it?

If they showed the quests before hand and I could then say 'Yes I'm going to work to make this happen' then it would be fine, I'm gambling one of my previous points in accepting the challenge and if I do not do what I said I was going to I should get penalized for it. If you don't know if selecting that quest is going to give you 22 8 hour productions and you can't play the game while you're at work/asleep you have no way of knowing if it's going to be an impossible task for you.

This current system is much better than what was in place at first, if you missed 1 you lost ALL your points. If you did 6 but couldn't do the 7th you were back to zero. I don't think it's horrible as is especially when you compare it to what was but I do think it would be fairer to all to not lose progress. People who somehow manage to complete everyone, everyday, will still have the edge of reaching 7 more often than those that do skip them* so those folks will still be rewarded more for their accomplishments.

*In one years time someone who completes every DC will reach the final chest 52 times.
Someone who misses only one per week would reach it only 45 times.
Players accomplishing them everyday will reach the final chest 7 more times in a year. They will still be rewarded more for having put in more work.
 

DeletedUser31498

*In one years time someone who completes every DC will reach the final chest 52 times.
Someone who misses only one per week would reach it only 45 times.
Players accomplishing them everyday will reach the final chest 7 more times in a year. They will still be rewarded more for having put in more work.

lol thanks for doing that math for us. I thought doing 7/8 of the tasks would be like 10 final chests vs 52 if done every day.

And seeing the chests beforehand makes it way too easy, I don't see it as a gamble at all.

If they showed the quests before hand and I could then say 'Yes I'm going to work to make this happen' then it would be fine, I'm gambling one of my previous points in accepting the challenge and if I do not do what I said I was going to I should get penalized for it. If you don't know if selecting that quest is going to give you 22 8 hour productions and you can't play the game while you're at work/asleep you have no way of knowing if it's going to be an impossible task for you.

If one could see the requirements beforehand, people would accomplish it 95%+ of the time. Nothing is actually a "challenge" other than possibly collecting silver/sitting in taverns, but for the vast majority that's very easy.

I mean if you're busy and can't accomplish the CHALLENGE, then honestly you'll live, but I don't think you deserve a total free-roll and be 100% to accomplish a task when you choose to accept since you already know it.
 

IngeJones

Active Member
I am glad to see the back of gain happiness. Gain population at least had a few workarounds like deleting a factory if you didn't want to place new houses, but you couldn't gain happiness by anything but building NEW happiness buildings.

As for losing a point by missing a day, I thought that seemed fair and made it more exciting/compelling in a way. As long as it can't go below zero, that is. That would be the pits for anyone going on vacation.
 

DeletedUser31440

I am glad to see the back of gain happiness. Gain population at least had a few workarounds like deleting a factory if you didn't want to place new houses, but you couldn't gain happiness by anything but building NEW happiness buildings.

You can delete and rebuild roads for the happiness requirements as well.
 

DeletedUser

*In one years time someone who completes every DC will reach the final chest 52 times.
Someone who misses only one per week would reach it only 45 times.
Players accomplishing them everyday will reach the final chest 7 more times in a year. They will still be rewarded more for having put in more work.
Close but wrong. If you miss/don't accept one challenge per week, you would reach the final chest 40 times. With the minus one on the day you miss/don't accept the challenge, it will take 9 days to reach each final chest, not 8. If you clear the challenge 6 days, then miss on the 7th day, you are back at 5, so you will clear the 6th one (again) on the 8th day and clear the 7th challenge on the 9th day. :)
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
if you could see the tasks in the challenge before selecting a chest or agreeing to attempt it.

Sure. I'm all for it.

In the last week I'we won 290 FP and 1 SoK in my startup jusr from DCs. Algona's dumbass luck ftw. But as I've noted in the DC Feedback thread,savvy players can manipulate the choices for a fair number of Quests and with minimal effort be prepared for most of the remaining Quests.

I asked a question a while back if folk thought you can build a city that does well at GE, RQs, Events, and DCs. Yup. You can.

Between four chests a day to chose from during Events and manipulating what Quests open the Chests I don't have any problem finding a reasonable prize and solving the Quests.

But there is a fly in the ointment: .I don't negotiate GE. Never have, never tried. I flat out refuse to. Sub-optimal (read that as stupidly stubborn. I can't even begin to rationalize this decision.) play choice on my part, and I live with the consequences of my choice.

One of those is that on Tuesday and Wednesday, before I finish GE lvl 3 I'm susceptible to hitting that Negotiate 3 GE Encounters Quest.
Which puts a lovely -1 ob me. because I r dumb enuff to refuse to negotiate. Two days progress lost. Ah well. I wo';t complain that it's 'unfar' of INNO to make me do something I don't want to do. I'll take my lumps and get on wtth the game.

Your idea would reward me for being stupidly stubbornn. No penalty unless both chests had the one thing in it I refuse to do? I'm in!

INNO would make a lot of friends with this choice.ut helps everyone who makes off or sub-optimal choices. Refuse to fight? or advance on CMap? or expand their Tavern? Or some other game choices?

Do you think that's within the spirit of DC?
 

DeletedUser27889

Close but wrong. If you miss/don't accept one challenge per week, you would reach the final chest 40 times. With the minus one on the day you miss/don't accept the challenge, it will take 9 days to reach each final chest, not 8. If you clear the challenge 6 days, then miss on the 7th day, you are back at 5, so you will clear the 6th one (again) on the 8th day and clear the 7th challenge on the 9th day. :)
Yes I was talking about if this were to change to them not deducting a point it would be 52/year vs 45. With the current system you're correct with the subtraction then catch up day it would be 365/9=40. So them changing this would mean someone who had to miss a day every 7 would get the final chest 5 more times a year than if they didn't change it but still 7 less than anyone who did every single one.
Between four chests a day to chose from during Events and manipulating what Quests open the Chests I don't have any problem finding a reasonable prize and solving the Quests.
I'm going to have to find your post because I wasn't aware of any manipulation beyond not having open sectors and the tavern quest being connected to how many friends you have. In beta several folks did an experiment to remove/add supply buildings to see if that made any change with the sometimes crazy '8 hour' or '5 minute' numbers. At the time it didn't seem to do anything so I've simply accepted it to be the same on live when that may not be the case.
Your idea would reward me for being stupidly stubbornn. No penalty unless both chests had the one thing in it I refuse to do? I'm in!

INNO would make a lot of friends with this choice.ut helps everyone who makes off or sub-optimal choices. Refuse to fight? or advance on CMap? or expand their Tavern? Or some other game choices?

Do you think that's within the spirit of DC?
I don't think it would reward you for being stubborn, but it wouldn't 'punish' you for being stubborn either. Also, just to clarify it's not my idea, I'm going off a line from panacea's posting of the change log that they are thinking of changing it though I am for the change if it comes to pass. I can't think of anything else in the game that puts you further behind for not succeeding and I think we've accepted it as part of the challenge and that's fine, certainly better than it's original form, but I don't think it's optimal. If we fail at a GE checkpoint we don't lose the checkpoint prior to it. We are simply stuck where we are until we progress. If this was just a simple daily check in then it would make much more sense but it isn't the point that is removed is something the player earned by their actions in game. My idea of the 'challenge' are the actual tasks being performed not so much the -/+ accumulation of successful attempts. Even so, the people who do manage to do them every day will be rewarded more than those that take days off for whatever reason. When the people who work harder or can accomplish more still end up getting more than those that don't, I just personally can't see much of a reason to be against it, seems like a win/win to me.
 
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