Changelog 1.136 Feedback

[RazorbackPirate]

In all eras?
Sure, you can do this in the later eras, with a very high Chateau. But in lower eras, without campaining in a low era? You cannot have the fighter's LG plus enough goods production buildings for negotiating the GE and the DC and building new LG and make the research and negotiate your way through the Continent.

Do you know that you would need about 1600 good per week for the GE only (all 4 levels of course) ? And I mean doing so without being helped with the goods by your guild.

Even in the last eras it will not be easy, I have about the same amount of Arktik goods now as I had when I went into the Oceanic era. And I was producing Arktik goods the whole year and negotiating no more than two times in the GE. And I could now only negotiate a few weeks without needing new Arktik goods (if still in Oceanic era). At the end it was almost impossible to get Arktik era goods on that world (an old one, opened 2012, so a lot of players in the last era).

My HMA city produces 625 goods per day on average. I don't have goods buildings. I've not had goods buildings since my Chateau was level 3. I always complete GE level 4. I used to fight as far as I could then negotiate, but now I negotiate as far as I can then fight.

Re: Arctic goods in the months prior to the opening of VF. A specific shortage for a specific period for a specific reason. I suspect it will be the same with OF goods between VF and what's next.

Way to miss the point. Yet again.

I didn't miss the point, but you seem to have missed how easy it was to change just a few of your words and say the exact same thing about negotiating as you did about fighting. You seem to think adding Negotiations in DC is soooooo different than adding Battles. I'm saying it's not. It's just the other side of the coin.

The Daily Challenge rewards are often not so good. This is perfectly OK. I expect the easier and cheaper tasks and quests and challenges to have lesser rewards and the harder and expensive tasks to have better rewards. This is no longer the case when the DC wants a negotiation for my rapidly diminishing supply of AF goods. If they wanted OF goods (and coins and supplies), it wouldn't be a problem.

It's a fallacy on your part to believe that there's any correlation between the number and/or difficulty of the tasks received in DC and the value of the contents of the chest you choose. Both are completely random. It randomly gives you two chests to choose from, then randomly generates 2 - 5 tasks of varying difficulties from the suite of choices available.

 

[DeletedUser35146]

Yes. If you choose to play a balanced game, and don't rush the tech tree, you can set yourself up to succeed either way from Iron Age on up. You have to work towards it, it won't happen on day one.

To do it one way or the other, yes. But not being able to switch between those ways every other week.
Of course one can set up one's city for negotiating and doing just the easy fights (with the units won in the GE).

I'm in a low era, HMA, I have no above age GBs. I'm not a camper, I move steadily up the ages. I easily make it through 48 levels of GE each week. I could do 64 if my guild opened level 4 regularly, and I chose to. I can easily win any battle I've faced recently, so though I often negotiate the later parts of GE I know I could fight it all. So yeah, I do think this sort of balance is possible in a city design even at lower ages.

It probably comes at a cost though - I'm sure my goods heavy city could use all that space on FP production instead. That TF could be making 5FP a day, not 20 goods. But balance is always about trade offs.

You know you can win parts of GE 1 with fighting. Fine, but what about GE 4, can you fight and win there? Can you win 64 encounters week after week with your city?
Between thinking one can do it and by really doing there is a long shot.

BTW I had never said it is impossible to do a bit of fighting (say GE1) and than negotiate everything else, at least in the low eras. What I said is, that you have to choose, whether you want to be able to fight (almost all) 64 encounters in GE or if you only fight a few and are going to negotiate all others. Most players now choose negotiating, it is easier, less GB needed (only Chateau), no need to learn anything new with a new era, negotiating never changes.

.... Arctic goods in the months prior to the opening of VF. A specific shortage for a specific period for a specific reason. I suspect it will be the same with OF goods between VF and what's next.

Yes, that shortage has a specific reason: Too many goods of the same era needed for negotiating in GE. And for almost the same reason, there will be less goods of low eras in future, because they get to be used much more now than in the past (before GE).

And as I said (somewhere above) with a Chateau high enough it is possible. How many players in HMA have a Chateau?

Well

I never said the negotiations in DC are impossible to do. I just said, that the price, the waste of goods, is too high in regard to what you can win there, that based on my experience of two very complex negotiations in three days. If it would only come once a month on average, fine, three times a week or something like that, just takes the fun out of the DC for me.

 

[DeletedUser]

To do it one way or the other, yes. But not being able to switch between those ways every other week.

Sorry, but you're just wrong. Not only can I do it, I know many other players on multiple worlds in various eras of the game that can do it. I have advocated a balanced game/city from the very beginning of my experience in this game, and in 3+ years I have seen nothing to change that, even with all the changes in the game over that time.

 

[DeletedUser35753]

You know you can win parts of GE 1 with fighting. Fine, but what about GE 4, can you fight and win there? Can you win 64 encounters week after week with your city?
Between thinking one can do it and by really doing there is a long shot.

BTW I had never said it is impossible to do a bit of fighting (say GE1) and than negotiate everything else, at least in the low eras. What I said is, that you have to choose, whether you want to be able to fight (almost all) 64 encounters in GE or if you only fight a few and are going to negotiate all others. Most players now choose negotiating, it is easier, less GB needed (only Chateau), no need to learn anything new with a new era, negotiating never changes.

I know I can fight and win at any level of GE because I've done it. I know I can defeat a "very large army" DC without losing a unit. Based on my understanding of the battles in GE4, that makes me think I could fight those levels, regularly and repeatedly, yup. Sure, I might be wrong, but I doubt it.

Might I eventually run low on rogues if I fought week after week? Yeah possibly. But in the medium term I can totally pick fight or negotiate.

I know what you said, I think the point I and others are making is it is possible to build a city where you can choose to negotiate or fight, at any time, based on your mood and the task presented, even in lower ages.

As far as your point about the cost of negotiation goes, yeah, I can see someone feeling that the cost on a particular task isn't worth that day's DC. That's a totally reasonable choice to make.

 

[DeletedUser35146]

Sorry, but you're just wrong. Not only can I do it, I know many other players on multiple worlds in various eras of the game that can do it. I have advocated a balanced game/city from the very beginning of my experience in this game, and in 3+ years I have seen nothing to change that, even with all the changes in the game over that time.

Three years ago there was no GE.
I highly doubt it would be possible to do both hardcore GvG and negotiating the GE in lower eras (and I know of no reason why anyone should want to make such a combination, ok, negotiating the last fourth level of GE from time to time, ok, and in most eras possible, but not every encounter).

I have tried recently to build an Iron City for that. Finishing GE with negotiating is no problem, one just need enough goods buildings plus Babel and LoA. But being able to fight a lot? I would not only need Zeus but also an Alca plus Rogue hideout plus barraks, there is not enough place in my city for that. Because FP for leveling up the LG is also needed. I do not think it is a good idea going for both in extreme in low eras, much better to choose where to put the focus on or have a guild that gave you the goods needed for negotiating for free.

 

[DeletedUser35146]

I know I can fight and win at any level of GE because I've done it. I know I can defeat a "very large army" DC without losing a unit. Based on my understanding of the battles in GE4, that makes me think I could fight those levels, regularly and repeatedly, yup. Sure, I might be wrong, but I doubt it.

The difficulty in level 4 increases during the level. So far I have only seen CD with a level at the beginning of level 4 never at the end.
Why did you never tried to fight level 4? At least from time to time, it does cost a lot less than negotiating, you win a lot of units in the GE.

Might I eventually run low on rogues if I fought week after week? Yeah possibly. But in the medium term I can totally pick fight or negotiate.

I know what you said, I think the point I and others are making is it is possible to build a city where you can choose to negotiate or fight, at any time, based on your mood and the task presented, even in lower ages.....

What I am trying to say is, it will be difficult to be able to do both, always. As you said, you may run low on rogues. Other swho fight more may run low on goods if the try to negotiate too much. It is the same. Sometimes you just have to make choices and sometimes to change the choice may take a bit of time.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

To do it one way or the other, yes. But not being able to switch between those ways every other week.

Yes, being able to switch between those every other week. I produce 625 goods per day without goods buildings, I have a level 7 CoA, a level 8 CdM and a level 9 Zues. I have 4 Rogue Hideouts and no other Barracks in my city. For today's GE, I got a 2 wave Battle, 8 units each wave, 30% boost. I won first time, lost one Rogue. The last Negotiation I got was 10 goods, 10 goods each, 4 turns. I missed it on the first attempt, one more turn would have gotten it, but I wasn't going to spend diamonds. So I started over and got it on the second attempt. I'm not sure how many goods I used I didn't check my goods before or after, I've got plenty and in a few hours, I'll have 625 units more.

You know you can win parts of GE 1 with fighting. Fine, but what about GE 4, can you fight and win there? Can you win 64 encounters week after week with your city? Between thinking one can do it and by really doing there is a long shot.

GE 4 - Yes, fight and win all the way through, but sometimes I run out of Rogues since I've not built Traz yet. 64 week after week - Yup, my 3 Terrace Farms and 6 SSWs should show my GE 4 card got punched long ago.

BTW I had never said it is impossible to do a bit of fighting (say GE1) and than negotiate everything else, at least in the low eras. What I said is, that you have to choose, whether you want to be able to fight (almost all) 64 encounters in GE or if you only fight a few and are going to negotiate all others. Most players now choose negotiating, it is easier, less GB needed (only Chateau), no need to learn anything new with a new era, negotiating never changes.

You are correct, you have to choose to build a well rounded city if you want to be able to do both. You're stuck in a mindset that says you can't do both easily and successfully, you're wrong. You're just plain wrong.

Yes, that shortage has a specific reason: Too many goods of the same era needed for negotiating in GE. And for almost the same reason, there will be less goods of low eras in future, because they get to be used much more now than in the past (before GE).

No, the shortage was not cause by negotiation in GE. The shortage was caused by not enough players in AF and too many players in OF with nowhere else to go. Since the inception of GE, other than the AF goods drought, have you seen a shortage of low age goods? I've not. I make 625 HMA goods per day. Does that sound like HMA goods will run short any time soon? There won't be a shortage of low age goods just because they added Negotiations. New players will always produce them and there are more players in the lower ages anyway.

And as I said (somewhere above) with a Chateau high enough it is possible. How many players in HMA have a Chateau?

Yes I know, a level 3 Chateau, such a stretch in HMA, how did I ever pull it off? Didn't you have a level 3 Traz in HMA or were you a late bloomer?

I never said the negotiations in DC are impossible to do. I just said, that the price, the waste of goods, is too high in regard to what you can win there, that based on my experience of two very complex negotiations in three days. If it would only come once a month on average, fine, three times a week or something like that, just takes the fun out of the DC for me.

That's the key phrase - For you. They're difficult for you. They're expensive for you. They're not worth it for you. For me, making 625 units per day without goods buildings, they're easy, they're cheap. Worth it, not wort it, who cares, it's DC? I can afford to gamble.

 

[Volodya]

Well, yes, Fighters also need to make goods. But fighters also need to have Great Buildings (Zeus, Cathedral of Aachen, Alcatraz, Terracotta Army) negotiators do not need and some that are necessary for fighters but may be usefull for others too. But is there any Great Building a fighter does not need but is a must for someone who only negotiates? I know of none.

So of course those who do not fight have more place for producing goods. Does that mean they are using it accordingly? No of course not. But they cannot win a fight, so they welcome of course the negotiations. Fighters do not like to waste goods. Negotiators?`



Trading down goods (2 for 1) is endowing if we are talking about the last eras of the game. If you have to negotiate through GE for 1 year in the same era (and have done so in the era before) you are running out of goods. And there is no reason whatever for anyone in lower ages to accept those goods (beside a few for the first days in the new era). So if you expect to be able to trade down, look at who is taking your goods. In most cases that are players of higher eras of your guild who are just acting nice. But why are they able to do so? Because they did not waste their goods for negotiations.



But that space you would need for any building you are required to build, there is no difference if this is a military building. And with a bit of preparation I am convinced you could do all this recruiting using GE (or spearfighters )


Well you choose to ignore one (not so small ) part of the game. That is always a problem.

Besides, I had two very complex negotiations on two days our of three now, you only one and that was a moderate one. We are not talking about the same.

You'll never run out of same age goods if you focus on raising your Chateau for awhile. Mine is level 60; I've never built an OF goods building and never will, I always negotiate all of GE level IV and generally around half of level III, yet I have thousands of OF goodd.

 

[DeletedUser]

Three years ago there was no GE.

So? You still could negotiate the C-Map. You still needed goods for tech. There was still PvP and GvG if you wanted to fight. What's your point? That a balanced city only makes sense since GE's inception? Then you're admitting that a balanced city makes sense, which pretty much undercuts your argument.

I highly doubt it would be possible to do both hardcore GvG

You must know you're fighting a losing battle here if you have to resort to bringing in "hardcore GvG". LOL

 

[Volodya]

From what I"ve heard/seen there are lots of players that aren't set up to fight to varying degrees. Some not at all. And the difficult battles have boosted two wave armies, which you need to be set up to fight more than "a little" to beat.

Right now I can't beat the very large armies unless I heal troops after the first wave. I'm not willing to do that, so I skip those challenges for now. I'm not satisfied with that though, so I'm building up my TA until I can meet that challenge. Things like that are what make the game fun for me. I really don't get why the fighting's too hard / negotiating's too hard whiners play at all.

 

[DeletedUser35146]

...., I have a level 7 CoA, a level 8 CdM and a level 9 Zues. I have 4 Rogue Hideouts and no other Barracks in my city.

It is a pity you do not say how high your chateau is now. With 625 goods per day it must be pretty high.

....
GE 4 - Yes, fight and win all the way through, but sometimes I run out of Rogues since I've not built Traz yet. 64 week after week - Yup, my 3 Terrace Farms and 6 SSWs should show my GE 4 card got punched long ago.
You are correct, you have to choose to build a well rounded city if you want to be able to do both. You're stuck in a mindset that says you can't do both easily and successfully, you're wrong. You're just plain wrong..

Well if you run out of Rogues your city is not build for fighting, not even only GE. And that is my point, both is impossible in lower eras. You are a good example for that.

...That's the key phrase - For you. They're difficult for you. They're expensive for you. They're not worth it for you. For me, making 625 units per day without goods buildings, they're easy, they're cheap. Worth it, not wort it, who cares, it's DC? I can afford to gamble.

You can afford to gamble but not to fight a lot, because you run low on rogues than. So what is the difference?

 

[DeletedUser35146]

You'll never run out of same age goods if you focus on raising your Chateau for awhile. Mine is level 60; I've never built an OF goods building and never will, I always negotiate all of GE level IV and generally around half of level III, yet I have thousands of OF goodd.

So every new players has to first level its Chateau to level 60 before advancing through the ages? just to be able to fulfill the DC?
That is just what that game needs, more reason for campaining in lower eras.

So? You still could negotiate the C-Map. You still needed goods for tech. There was still PvP and GvG if you wanted to fight. What's your point? That a balanced city only makes sense since GE's inception? Then you're admitting that a balanced city makes sense, which pretty much undercuts your argument.

Without GE it was much easier to build a "balanced" city, whatever you really mean with that.

...You must know you're fighting a losing battle here if you have to resort to bringing in "hardcore GvG". LOL

May be, but for me a player who just fights some encounters of GE is not really a fighter, you almost only need the GBs (Zeus, Aachener, Castel del Monte, Terracotta Army) for that, almost everything else you can win through GE. But if you fight GE plus Continent plus neigbours plus GvG than the requirements are much higher. And that is the point where the question of place gets really important, what can you build and what do you build, and than you will have to make choices, especially in lower eras when you have less space.

 

[DeletedUser]

May be, but for me a player who just fights some encounters of GE is not really a fighter, you almost only need the GBs (Zeus, Aachener, Castel del Monte, Terracotta Army) for that, almost everything else you can win through GE. But if you fight GE plus Continent plus neigbours plus GvG than the requirements are much higher. And that is the point where the question of place gets really important, what can you build and what do you build, and than you will have to make choices, especially in lower eras when you have less space.

So your experience is that you personally can't develop a balanced city that can handle negotiating and/or fighting, so you don't think it's possible for anybody else, either. Despite the fact that multiple people have told you that not only can it be done, but they are actually doing it. Well, good luck. With your mindset you'll need it.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

It is a pity you do not say how high your chateau is now. With 625 goods per day it must be pretty high.

My Chateau is at level 10, I also have Babel - 5, HS - 11, SMB - 5, Inno - 2, I just built Arc a few days ago, it's at lvl 3.

Well if you run out of Rogues your city is not build for fighting, no even only GE. And that is my point, both is impossible in lower eras. You are a good example for that.

You're clinging so hard to your perspective. I know it's hard to change your world view, but try. I have everything to build Traz all the prints, all the goods. I've been able to build Traz since the day I built Chat.

I was in a GvG guild at that time, so the guild gave me a Traz. Otherwise it would have been very expensive in FP. The cost has been gone down tremendously since than.

I hunted down my both my Traz and Chateau prints the good old fashioned way. FP swaps and sniping GBs. I got the goods by buying them for FPs. Nobody gave me anything. Yes, they were very expensive and quite a stretch at the time. But it was worth it to be able to build two of the most important GBs in the game early in the game.

Yet I still have not built Traz. I've had everything for 5 months at least, but I've not yet built Traz. Why? Because I don't need it. I can complete GE 4 each week no problem. If my goal were to complete GE 4 each week by fighting I could. Given the space it takes, it would cut into my goods production, I'd only produce 600 per day.

You can afford to gamble but not to fight a lot, because you run low on rogues than. So what is the difference?

The difference is 2 of the 3 Rogue Hideouts I have in storage and 48 hours will fix my self-inflicted Rogue issue, it won't affect my goods production at all, I'll still be able to fight or negotiate GE 64/64. Whichever I choose, whenever I choose and your point is still blown out of the water. It's easy to be both, you just need to choose to be both and build accordingly.

I've never been big on or. Life's more fun with and.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

So every new players has to first level its Chateau to level 60 before advancing through the ages? just to be able to fulfill the DC? That is just what that game needs, more reason for camping in lower eras.

This is where you show you've lost the argument. You know this is not true. I just said I've been completing GE 4 without goods buildings since my Chateau was at level 3. Let go of the banana. It'll be okay.

Without GE it was much easier to build a "balanced" city, whatever you really mean with that.

By now you know exactly what we ALL mean by a balanced city. Let go, it'll be okay.

May be, but for me a player who just fights some encounters of GE is not really a fighter, you almost only need the GBs (Zeus, Aachen, Castel del Monte, Terracotta Army) for that, almost everything else you can win through GE. But if you fight GE plus Continent plus neighbors plus GvG than the requirements are much higher. And that is the point where the question of place gets really important, what can you build and what do you build, and than you will have to make choices, especially in lower eras when you have less space.

There you go changing the goal post so far that the argument now is ... --- ... ... --- ... ... --- ... lost.

 

[DeletedUser29623]

In my second city I didn’t move out of HMA until my Chateau, LoA, STM and RAH were leveled to 10. It’s astonishing how rich you can get in LMA with that set up and two RQ slots open, and I don’t even quest that heavily. I’ll never run out of LMA goods before I decide to leave CA. I really think your problem is that you rushed the tech tree instead of keeping pace with your GBs

 

[RazorbackPirate]

In my second city I didn’t move out of HMA until my Chateau, LoA, STM and RAH were leveled to 10. It’s astonishing how rich you can get in LMA with that set up and two RQ slots open, and I don’t even quest that heavily. I’ll never run out of LMA goods before I decide to leave CA. I really think your problem is that you rushed the tech tree instead of keeping pace with your GBs

I'm doing the same thing as Laura, plus I've built all the A/D GBs. They're not quite at level 10, but they will be soon, I have a swap partner on each of them.

I have a city in HMA and LMA and I agree with Laura, LMA with two RQ slots open is crazy. I have more LMA goods than I'll ever need through the rest of the game. I've already traded enough up to have 2,000 of each CA good and 1,000 of each Indy good in stock.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

It takes time to get setup, but it is possible to be powerful in both goods and military in iron age... And since it's taking time, you can also increase the space you have available by getting ahead on the map and getting medal expansions from GB donation. I wouldn't really recommend it though unless camping a low age was the goal itself.

wrt actually playing through the game, yorkton started about 50 weeks ago. The first week it has no GE. I'm at 49/50 on the completing GE4 badge (i haven't missed a week). Early on it was quite challenging to balance having enough goods to negotiate 4 while getting GBs up and stuff, but it was possible - mostly I relied on running as many goods buildings as I could on 8 hour cycles (about 8 I believe in iron age - though i changed my city 2-3 times a week to have barracks to fight the first bit and then a few extra days of goods production once I had nothing I needed to fight til next). Adding in an occasional DC negotiation wouldn't have been a big deal (though sometimes if the chest that day wasn't worth it it might've been skipped as not a priority compared to my other uses for goods and that's fine). It doesn't take higher age buildings to manage it. By now I'm in CE and fighting 64/64 - the only building I built before I got to the age it's from is Arc, which I built at the start of CE. I did spend some diamonds along the way, but nothing that would've been necessary to accomplish GE every week - just things I wanted (like ToR blueprints to have one up for week 3 and start getting relics, a few diamond expansions because the early ones are cheap, and light spending in events to get things like an extra pirate ship).

 

[DeletedUser31592]

In Zorskog, I am in LMA. Entered LMA on 8/8, so 2 months. I am not building GBs above my era, so I do not have a CF. (I am also building all GBs and leveling them to 10 before progressing, excluding the Notre Dame and Colosseum).

I negotiate all 64 levels every single week.

I do not follow HQS- my RQ is set on collect coins and I do do the UBQ when I pass it. That is all.

I have plenty of goods. And, my attack boosts are not terrible, either. I can win battles and I can negotiate. It is quite possible to set a city up to do both. (And, honestly, most days I log into this city only once per day. So virtually no effort and I have goods.)














The only reason I am still in LMA is because I need a few one-ups/reno kits before I am comfortable moving on. I've laid off getting my SBC to 10 and instead completed levels on my Zeus, ToR, and OBS.

 

[DeletedUser30312]

Well, I got the complex negotiation today, basically a GE 4 style one with 10 different goods, and the prize is the Item User chest. I'm going to skip over this one. The negotiation itself I can likely handle, but I'm not going to risk spending those goods just to get a Mass Self Aid Kit or Boost Crate.