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Chatoue frontenac is overpowerd

HEXylresorcinol

Active Member
@Chicken Thighs R Best, I understand your math but is it possible to do 2 of the RQs? 333 iterations of the UBQ requires 666K coins and supplies (the CF covers the coins and another high-level GB like the HC can handle the supplies) should not be a problem. What other RQ can be done 333 times daily? The "spend FPs" quest would require 5K FPs, the produce "skewers" or "cheese wheels" take 24 hours to complete, "gather coins/supplies" require gathering almost 2MM coins/supplies in 5K bites. Realistically, I think that the upper limit for goods and FPs is about half of what you calculated. A big number still but what a grind getting there.

I utilize the spend FPs when I contribute to GBs and then fulfill a UBQ in-between. Because my CF is a high-enough level for Iron Age, the coins and supplies rewards are boosted enough so it covers the cost of the UBQ. For sniping, I use 1 RQ, and for the 1.9 thread, sometimes I take 1st place on a high-level GB in 15 FP increments. Just depends on my mood when it comes to RQs. I've had a couple guildies tell me that I've "sniped" them, and I reply, "give me like 15 more minutes, I'm contributing to your GB in 15 FP increments". I don't use the other RQs that much since I rarely hit the abort limit anyways. It's very difficult in an early era to reach the abort limit while playing normally simply because you have less RQs to abort through in these lower eras.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
What makes the Chateau Frontenac over powered is its ability to outproduce entire cities on its own. Most if not all other buildings run on a 24 hr cycle to determine output. CF bypasses this completely.
And so does the Arc. The difference is that the Arc interferes with other people's games, whereas the CF does not.
 

HEXylresorcinol

Active Member
And so does the Arc. The difference is that the Arc interferes with other people's games, whereas the CF does not.

CF greatly interferes with other people's games, although in less apparent ways. The number of level 50+ CFs in an era can greatly change the landscape of the most active goods traders. Goods in quantities that were unfathomable to obtain before a high level CF could be dumped into the guild treasury and used to fill shortages from GBG, etc. There was a player that I know of who had a solo guild with a perpetual motion CF in TE, and he was producing so many goods that he could negotiate in GBG past 150 attrition and break swaps in lower diamond. CE goods were ridiculously expensive in that world too.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
And so does the Arc. The difference is that the Arc interferes with other people's games, whereas the CF does not.
I agree the Arc is OP in its own right. As is GBG (in its current state) and the Alcatraz. Particularly once these elements all start interacting with each other, boosting their usefulness from what they would have been if in a vacuum

CF greatly interferes with other people's games, although in less apparent ways. The number of level 50+ CFs in an era can greatly change the landscape of the most active goods traders. Goods in quantities that were unfathomable to obtain before a high level CF could be dumped into the guild treasury and used to fill shortages from GBG, etc. There was a player that I know of who had a solo guild with a perpetual motion CF in TE, and he was producing so many goods that he could negotiate in GBG past 150 attrition and break swaps in lower diamond. CE goods were ridiculously expensive in that world too.
Also whenever a new age is released it becomes a race as to who can build and level up the newest Great Building first. A player with a high level CF is going to be able to sell goods at a high profit in that initial rush, and if that allows them to build the building first then there's also a massive profit to be made FP wise on the actual building. Flying Island for example, that cost 40k~ to reach level 70. First person to be able to place it down effectively saves themselves 40k FPs due to that rush. If the CF allows them to beat everyone else to it, that's quite the profit (though diamonds would be quicker for goods)
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
CF greatly interferes with other people's games, although in less apparent ways. The number of level 50+ CFs in an era can greatly change the landscape of the most active goods traders. Goods in quantities that were unfathomable to obtain before a high level CF could be dumped into the guild treasury and used to fill shortages from GBG, etc. There was a player that I know of who had a solo guild with a perpetual motion CF in TE, and he was producing so many goods that he could negotiate in GBG past 150 attrition and break swaps in lower diamond. CE goods were ridiculously expensive in that world too.
In the niche cases you cite, the CF marginally affects large guilds playing GBG, but not individual players. The Arc's effect is on individual players and guilds, both big and small. It could be argued that the greater number of goods available through heavy use of the CF actually affects other players in a positive way through greater trading opportunities. The Arc benefits players that are cooperating with the Arc owners, but negatively affects everyone else, especially those who do not choose to hyper level an Arc.
I agree the Arc is OP in its own right. As is GBG (in its current state) and the Alcatraz.
Maybe, but for GBG to be overpowered, you have to be in a Diamond league guild. And even if the Alcatraz is slightly overpowered (I don't think it is, but for the sake of argument), it doesn't directly have a negative effect on other players like the Arc does.
 

HEXylresorcinol

Active Member
Maybe, but for GBG to be overpowered, you have to be in a Diamond league guild.

Upper platinum can be very profitable in terms of FPs, especially if you're the big fish in the pond. I've heard plenty of stories of players moving from a top 3 GBG-strength guild to a guild that bounces between lower diamond and upper platinum, and they have gotten twice the fights they would have gotten in a strong diamond guild in half of the time spent in the game because there's less competition for fights.
 

Darkest.Knight

Active Member
When everyone has an equal opportunity to be equals I don't think that OP is relavent. If u think someone is OP, copy them; don't complain because u may not want to invest pts or cash doing the same thing. Most of the top tier players r OP in 1 way or another, they "earned" it. Someone mentioned OP guilds, which I find kind of amusing since I played pretty much solo until recently, now have a big 5 player guild and unfortunately popped into diamond league. It's not that my group is so underpowered but rather it's limited more by size, should I complain that the guild membership numbers aren't capped because I choose not to join a big guild?
 
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Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
THe 2000 cap on RQ is the best thing to stop the CF grab. IT has reduced those few CF powerhouses down to a more resonable point.
For GbG CF is a great use for Goods for the Treasury to build SC.
 

Darkest.Knight

Active Member
Well, as far as game balance is concerned that has more to do w/personal preference than game design since this is a game w/o a defined endpoint. As far as CF goes for my build it's not even all that significant, I gave it a lot higher priority on my miner than my primary. For my build, of all my buildings SMB is overpowered; along with all the other contributors to coin buff. I didn't even put up SMB until I finished story questline and I've already purchased over 46K fps w/coins, lol, hardly seems fair when I look how few fps the average player produces (can get an idea by daily additions to GB's). As it stands i'll be making an extra 125 plus fps daily for quite a while. Sounds as though people want the game nerfed so it will be slower paced than it already is.
 

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
I spent 3.2 billion coins buying Forge Points just yesterday in one World while moving up to SAM Era. I still have 2.2 Billion there.
I have a SMB at level 80 ... 600% bonus
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
Well, as far as game balance is concerned that has more to do w/personal preference than game design since this is a game w/o a defined endpoint.
No, it has to do with changing the game in a fundamental way, which is what the Arc did. CF has, also, but to a much, much lesser degree. In fact, as far as affecting game balance and how the game is played, the Arc is in a league of its own. Nothing else comes close to the game changing impact that the Arc has had. Now if they had kept the initial 10 level limit on GBs, or gradually increased the maximum possible level, it might have been different. But the Arc combined with unlimited leveling fundamentally changed the face of the game.
 

Darkest.Knight

Active Member
To each his own, again I didn't bother w/arc until I had a lot of extra room; I lvl'd it to 90 to help friends but besides that it's useless for me. I have more bp's than I'll ever use and I don't rely on acr for fps. With it or w/o it the game would be about the same for me.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
To each his own, again I didn't bother w/arc until I had a lot of extra room;
You are completely missing the point. It doesn't matter whether you have an Arc or not, it affects your game. If you had been around before the Arc and hyper leveling GBs, you would understand. It was a very different game back then. Hyper leveling the Arc led to hyper leveling other GBs. Hyper leveling attack boost GBs necessitated increasing the difficulty of battles. If it weren't for hyper leveled attack GBs, you wouldn't have to face the enemy boosts that you currently do in GE and GBG. And if you ever play GvG, you can see that the defense boosts there have never been adjusted to the reality of the Arc and hyper leveled GBs. You should really quit responding if you're not going to accept that you can learn something.
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
You are completely missing the point. It doesn't matter whether you have an Arc or not, it affects your game. If you had been around before the Arc and hyper leveling GBs, you would understand. It was a very different game back then. Hyper leveling the Arc led to hyper leveling other GBs. Hyper leveling attack boost GBs necessitated increasing the difficulty of battles. If it weren't for hyper leveled attack GBs, you wouldn't have to face the enemy boosts that you currently do in GE and GBG. And if you ever play GvG, you can see that the defense boosts there have never been adjusted to the reality of the Arc and hyper leveled GBs. You should really quit responding if you're not going to accept that you can learn something.
I have to ask. What difference do you think the "back in the day" references make to most players? To the best of my knowledge, INNO doesn't publish a pivot table displaying a breakdown of players by time in game but I'll make a SWAG and say that fewer than 25% of players were playing prior to the introduction of ARC. Players that started after ARC's arrival probably care about life before ARC as much as my children care about life before cell phones and the internet.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
Sounds as though people want the game nerfed so it will be slower paced than it already is.
No. I’m not asking for that, not for the CF and Arc. Neither would I expect it to occur. The original balance wasn’t with anywhere near the same amount of ages. It was necessary to be able to increase the speed of certain things. I still stand by the statement that certain features and combination of features end up becoming OP even with the addition of new ages

That can be both a good thing and a bad thing depending on what you intend to achieve with the game, and the impact that then has overall on the games health.

The only way I’d want a nerf to occur is if it’s done with proper care and redesigning so the whole thing flows properly with an enjoyable final product. Not a retroactive half-baked bandaid which is pretty much guaranteed to be what we’d get if a nerf occurred.

The changes to Bronze Age (not to mention moving plundering to Iron Age) are a perfect example. Locking out the features is intended to make it easier for new comers to understand, but because it wasn’t designed with that in mind the design ends up with parts that don’t entirely make sense when separated into bits and pieces

Another example is GBG. It needed redesigning, we got a cosmetic makeup on a new map that does nothing to address the actual pain points.
 
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RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
The Arc has been around so long, for the vast majority of players, myself included, there was no time before The Arc. However, at the time I started, people were just starting to figure out both the ARC and CF to their full advantage. I saw the power of both early, jumped on both, and have never worried about gripes about power.

With both, whatever power they have comes from actively using them. The Arc is not worth the space it's planted on if you don't actively and regularly contribute to other's GBs. CF is only powerful if you spin RQs, the power limited by how much a player is willing to do. Yes they placed a cap, because some folks will sit and spin RQs all day if you let them.

Uphill, in the snow, both ways. Who wants that?
 

Darkest.Knight

Active Member
I haven't paid any attention to what others think of best strategy, when I started I saw "winning" required the long view since others were 2 yrs ahead of me (playing for bit less than 4 yrs), haven't changed my strategy and I am satisfied w/my progress. Progress for myself is going up the ranks, I'm bouncing around 226 at the moment and am confident that I'll wear them down and go ahead. I've not ,been passed in a long time, I could always tell when someone made a diamond purchase, instant huge gains. The person I've watched from the beginning used to be way ahead of me after purchase but hasn't bought anything in ages. I'm now within 10M of the guy and I'm closing in. The game changes dramatically over time, end game is a lot different than the beginning, so far I've removed 5 GB's and may get rid of CF and FI since they're not worth much now, although not appreciated by myself, i'll keep arc to help others; they appreciate it by adding to my buildings. I only paid attention to lvl'ing GB's after I finished up the story questline, I'm improving my fp production and attack skills pretty quickly now. Aiming for 2000 fps/day and a lot higher than my currect 1100 attack. Since I'm only interested in fps or attack GB's not much can be OP since no has even suggested that for CDM. SOZ, CC etc are OP. We'll c how it goes as I move along, top guys all do huge numbers of fights to add the most pts to their ranking score, I don't know that I'll ever do over 4000 fights/cycle, I don't spend enough time playing the game to do that. We'll c how far up I can go before I'm truely stuck, that'll be the end for me.
It goes w/o saying that best strategy depends upon one's point of view, I have mine other theirs, depends on how u c it. Op for myself is all relative, as is balance, depends on strategy.
 
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Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
I haven't paid any attention to what others think of best strategy, when I started I saw "winning" required the long view since others were 2 yrs ahead of me (playing for bit less than 4 yrs), haven't changed my strategy and I am satisfied w/my progress. Progress for myself is going up the ranks, I'm bouncing around 226 at the moment and am confident that I'll wear them down and go ahead. I've not ,been passed in a long time, I could always tell when someone made a diamond purchase, instant huge gains. The person I've watched from the beginning used to be way ahead of me after purchase but hasn't bought anything in ages. I'm now within 10M of the guy and I'm closing in. The game changes dramatically over time, end game is a lot different than the beginning, so far I've removed 5 GB's and may get rid of CF and FI since they're not worth much now, although not appreciated by myself, i'll keep arc to help others; they appreciate it by adding to my buildings. I only paid attention to lvl'ing GB's after I finished up the story questline, I'm improving my fp production and attack skills pretty quickly now. Aiming for 2000 fps/day and a lot higher than my currect 1100 attack. Since I'm only interested in fps or attack GB's not much can be OP since no has even suggested that for CDM. SOZ, CC etc are OP. We'll c how it goes as I move along, top guys all do huge numbers of fights to add the most pts to their ranking score, I don't know that I'll ever do over 4000 fights/cycle, I don't spend enough time playing the game to do that. We'll c how far up I can go before I'm truely stuck, that'll be the end for me.
It goes w/o saying that best strategy depends upon one's point of view, I have mine other theirs, depends on how u c it. Op for myself is all relative, as is balance, depends on strategy.
The Arc and the resultant hyper leveling is what made your progress possible. No way you'd have 1100 attack or dream of 2000 FPs/day without the Arc's effect on the game. You can claim all you want that the Arc's being overpowered doesn't affect you, but you're dead wrong.
 

Darkest.Knight

Active Member
A sense of humor is good, I didn't put up the Arc until very late, I finished the story questline before I put up the silly thing, it wasn't useful from my point of view and I still don't think the building is the end all. Doesn't matter what someone else thinks, present or absent wouldn't change this game much at all. If ur really rigid u might not appreciate that opinions r only opinions.
 
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