CHEATERS!!!!!

[DeletedUser33297]

Assholes will be assholes......I cant change that....sir

 

[DeletedUser29726]

I'd agree with stephen at this point. If everything is as stated in the guild leader's message their actions are wholly understandable.

Key points :
- you were compensated for the shortages (this alone should've been enough for you to let it be and trust your leaders are handling it - just stop using the threads if you feel they're not worth it under the current atmosphere)
- you came to the forums to complain about it (leads credence to the idea that you might've been causing more drama over the issue than just private messages with the leadership - a mention of caustic messages with the person who shorted you for example)
- three times is reasonable for the first step of supplementary discipline. first time likely treated as an honest mistake, just fix it. second time viewed as an issue, send a message to the offending party that they have to pay better attention. third time a suspension of thread use to convey that it's a serious issue. All assuming of course that the offending player is in other ways a valued member of the guild.
- the mention of you as a potential future leader speaks to you having the conviction needed to get others to follow you. But that same trait can make a person a source of drama. We don't know anything about what else was going in your guild - this could just be the last straw of patience from a leader you've been creating all kinds of work for. It would be worth reflecting on your own actions and considering if things were really as big a deal as you make them out to be.

 

[DeletedUser31225]

When a game message to the guild sounds like a speech from a politician...

OMG

 

[DeletedUser33297]

I'd agree with stephen at this point. If everything is as stated in the guild leader's message their actions are wholly understandable.

Key points :
- you were compensated for the shortages (this alone should've been enough for you to let it be and trust your leaders are handling it - just stop using the threads if you feel they're not worth it under the current atmosphere)
- you came to the forums to complain about it (leads credence to the idea that you might've been causing more drama over the issue than just private messages with the leadership - a mention of caustic messages with the person who shorted you for example)
- three times is reasonable for the first step of supplementary discipline. first time likely treated as an honest mistake, just fix it. second time viewed as an issue, send a message to the offending party that they have to pay better attention. third time a suspension of thread use to convey that it's a serious issue. All assuming of course that the offending player is in other ways a valued member of the guild.
- the mention of you as a potential future leader speaks to you having the conviction needed to get others to follow you. But that same trait can make a person a source of drama. We don't know anything about what else was going in your guild - this could just be the last straw of patience from a leader you've been creating all kinds of work for. It would be worth reflecting on your own actions and considering if things were really as big a deal as you make them out to be.

Agreed. I cant say Im not part of the problem. All I know is what I know.

 

[DeletedUser33297]

The message from the guild leadership sounds much like I might have written. In fact, I have written messages like that to my guild(s) after dealing with an unpleasant piece of drama. Communication of such things is a necessary evil, because it heads off rumors and discontent rising from misinformation. Sometimes you have to make a decision for the good of the guild overall, and get rid of someone when you really would rather they accept the guild's actions and remain a valued member. In fact, I just had a situation in one of my guilds where a really good player that was a true benefit to the guild was doing one thing that was taking advantage of his guildmates. I approached him with how I viewed the situation, and how we wanted the matter resolved, and he refused. Not the first time I've had that happen as a guild leader. The only alternative then is to "cut out the cancer", because the one thing you can't have in a guild is a member (or members) who will not accept guild leadership's policies and/or decisions.

All that being said, we don't know for sure what to make of this situation. Multiple people have said they would like more clarification on the guild leader's remarks, such as how much of it is accurate. If the whole of the guild leader's remarks are accurate, then I would have to say they made the right decision. If they're not accurate, what part is wrong? And what is the truth then?

So, Trink, the ball's in your court here. If the guild leader's message is wrong in its relating of the facts, where is it wrong and what is the truth?

(As an aside, I'm inclined personally to accept the guild leader's take on it, due to the fact that posting the issue here fits the pattern of behavior he described.)

Im not a person to cry over spilled milk....whats done is done. I was just looking for some different opinions. Now I am in that guild that I mentioned in the past....More reason to hate....Jezus....it aint easy being me

 

[DeletedUser33297]

Well, I can only conclude that the guild leader's assessment of the situation was correct and his actions were justified. If not, I would think you would have set the record straight rather than avoiding the subject. Sad.

Hard to set anything straight from the outside looking in brother.
You go to sleep in a guild, and wake up not in a guild. Blindsided. No room to say or do anything. Justified? Maybe Just? Prolly not.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

Ha, what nonsense, TrinkOne, you were robbed, sort of, plain and simple, not once, not twice, but three times by the same person. I wouldn't give a crap if the guy had a level 200 Arc, 50 HoF's and 200,000 GvG fights but I'd kick em. How anyone can justify that guys behavior is beyond belief.

 

[DeletedUser28670]

So basically...
TrinkOne got robbed 3 times
by the same person...

He was reimbursed.
He complained of unfairness (Yes, that's reasonable! If you are cheated THREE times by the SAME person, that person should be kicked.)
TRINK was kicked because of "complaining."
And the guild leader decides to go president mode and give an inspiring speech!

If you're cheated thrice by the same person, like @sloppyjoeslayer said, no matter how much benefit that guy does, he should be kicked.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

...multiple swap threads and then gotten distracted by something...

okay, if, and that's a big if, if it went down that way then sort of okay, I mean really why post on multiple swap threads at once then go back and add fp's, makes no sense to do it that way but okay I can accept idiocy over maliciousness. However, maybe you missed this;

third time I reported him to the Admins

or perhaps I misunderstood because to me says that implies three separate occasions not necessarily multiple threads all at once, it wouldn't make sense to make three separate reports if it happened all at one time, I would think in such a case one would say on this, this and this thread in one message.

How you can categorically condemn him without knowing (or caring, apparently) what the "acceptable explanation" was is even further beyond belief.

I can only go by what is provided and so with what we have I think it's fine to do so, I mean really it's not like we're sentencing the guy to prison here fella but really in some states 3rd violations are LIFE!

 

[DeletedUser26965]

I am not saying it did. I'm just giving an example of an "acceptable explanation". Since Trink won't answer any requests for verification of the details of what actually happened, I can only assume it's because the guild leader was in the right.

Exactly. And Trink hasn't provided anything past his original, rather ambiguous post. And he has ignored several requests to either deny or confirm what the guild leader said. This, combined with the fact that posting the issue here fits with what the guild leader said about Trink's behavior, tells me that Trink was in the wrong and knows it. But can't bring himself to admit it.

What behavior and why is this so complex for you? He has informed the leaders three times about the guy then got kicked for it and it's his fault? Jesus, what kind of guild you running I wonder if you find that normal guild behavior.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

He got kicked for not accepting leadership's decision, and being very public about it. What kind of guild would allow that? And I repeat again that Trink is ignoring all requests for clarification of what really happened, which is the behaviour of someone who has something to hide, or at the very least something he doesn't want to admit to. Why are you ignoring that?

well gee, maybe if they dealt with it the first time, or the second time before the third time it wouldn't have come to any of this, it's obvious to me it's some sort of favoritism thing towards the "other player" as they put it protecting him or else others might have spoke out and said hey wait he did that to me too at the mere mention of his name so they didn't say it, pfft, accessories after the fact, they should all be permabanned and Trink made founder.

 

[Darth Mole]

We have a 'No Drama' rule in my Guild.

This would definitely fall into the 'Drama' category.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

We have a 'No Drama' rule in my Guild.

This would definitely fall into the 'Drama' category.

Yeah but that's vague and broad so really only benefits those in charge who can deem anything "drama" and kick on that basis. I wouldn't consider a guildmate reporting another guildmate drama, unless of course it was made up.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

Have you noticed that Trink isn't even defending himself? One of the last things he said on this thread was:

Maybe?!? Another indicator that he was not in the right. We need some answers from Trink before you could justify your stance defending him. Trink's statement didn't clearly say he reported him 3 times. He said he was shorted 65 FP and "3rd time I reported him". What exactly does that mean? It could mean he was cheated 3 times for a total of 65 FP and finally reported him on the third time. It could also mean he reported him for the third time, as you're interpreting it. We don't know. And Trink won't answer.

If the correct interpretation is he didn't report him until after the third time he got shorted, then he doesn't have a leg to stand on. Leadership handled it exactly right. Because at that point you would have no way of knowing if Trink had actually been shorted as much as he claimed, so you would have to be fair to both members. Which is what it sounds like to me. And in light of that interpretation, continued posting in multiple places by Trink would clearly come under the heading of creating drama, and would get him kicked. Extending his in-game discontent into this Forum would fit perfectly within this interpretation, as would his continuing refusal to speak to the truth of the guild leader's words that he posted.

If the correct interpretation is as Trink would have you believe, and you obviously do, there is too much that just doesn't make sense. For one thing, if the leadership was being unfair to Trink, why wouldn't they just demonize him to the rest of the guild. Instead, it seems that they went out of their way to praise him as a player even though they had to kick him. I understand and respect that from a guild leader's perspective. The other thing is that Trink himself testifies to the fact that this guild leadership is helpful and supportive, which he mentions as a reason he's upset that he's no longer in the guild. Why would they be that helpful and supportive and then turn around and stab him in the back? Just doesn't make sense. It's not consistent behavior at all. And one thing I've witnessed in players and Forum posters is that, good or bad, they're consistent.

Anyway, until @TrinkOne chimes in with some actual further facts, or at least some clarification (that sounds convincing) of what the truth is, I'm done arguing with you about it.

boy you really got into this one, yeah I think now it means the third time he got cheated he reported him. But this issue anyway is a strange one because it involves swap threads which can get confusing but you can check the threads and GB's and usually tell what happened. If trink posted on a swap thread and the other guy posted after him you'll plainly see if the guy is on trinks GB, unless of course he was already on there with a bunch of fp's then you really can't say for sure. But I'm still on trinks side.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

You should reread Trink's posts (after the first one) and see if you think they sound like an innocent man. They sound to me like someone trying to avoid saying anything incriminating while at the same time sounding indignant that we're not all on his side. Makes me sad.

nah, I think that's just your pessimistic nature coming through at any post on the forums. You also must RELEASE THE RAINBOW!

 

[DeletedUser26965]

You should reread Trink's posts (after the first one) and see if you think they sound like an innocent man. They sound to me like someone trying to avoid saying anything incriminating while at the same time sounding indignant that we're not all on his side. Makes me sad.

jeez, how did I miss this;

Now I find out thru intel hes notoriously a cheater

sounds like you missed it too. If that's true then I'm right and you're wrong, unless you like notorious cheaters for guild members, then okay you're right and I'm wrong.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

Nope, but it fits the pattern of making vague statements to back up his version of things. At least until we started asking for clarification of details, and then he was just playing the victim game here as well as in-game.

sheesh, what's vague about being a notorious cheater? Doesn't notorious inherently imply rather clearly and overtly the nature of him being a cheater? Doesn't seem vague at all. I'm thinking this must be your guild or something with how so vehemently you stand in their defense!

 

[DeletedUser27889]

Trink when you say it happened 3 times do you mean the person replied to you on let's say the 50 thread the 10 thread and the 5 thread all at once and didn't put the points on, or, they shorted you 50 two weeks ago and you told leadership, shorted you 10 this week you told again and shorted you another 5 days later?

If it's scenario one then they didn't do this 3 times, it happened once on multiple threads. Any number of things could happen to a person, they have an emergency, their comp crashed, their boss walked in, their internet went out or they just simply got distracted and forgot.

If I have a good standing member in my guild who has never cause an issue before a single incident and someone just wouldn't let it go...yeah I'm going to boot the one that won't let it go and is calling their mate a cheat and not accepting their apology.

If it was the second one then no, that is not acceptable but I'm inclined to think no good leader would allow that.

I made a mistake myself a couple months back and posted in a 50 swap thinking it was a 5, it was in beta so not my guild. Luckily for me the mate gave me the benefit of the doubt and just sent a polite message about the issue asking me what happened and never once calling me a cheater. Of course I apologized and did what I could to not only make it right but give more to try to make amends for my mistake, which is what seems your mate did as well.

 

[DeletedUser32009]

I dont use the guild's swaps thread anymore. When i did though, I I would notice if someone posted behind me and check my GB to make sure that person put their points on. If not, I would leave a nice message in the thread itself.
such as, "Player's name, I understand it is easy to forget placing the FP's. Can you take care of that as soon as you can please?
It is on the thread, everyone sees it. It gets solved immediately with no drama in guild.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

I dont use the guild's swaps thread anymore. When i did though, I I would notice if someone posted behind me and check my GB to make sure that person put their points on. If not, I would leave a nice message in the thread itself.
such as, "Player's name, I understand it is easy to forget placing the FP's. Can you take care of that as soon as you can please?
It is on the thread, everyone sees it. It gets solved immediately with no drama in guild.

I don't know that that solution is really optimal for avoiding drama as a message in a public thread sometimes breaks down into everyone throwing their 2 cents in - especially since your above message i would read as a little tongue in cheek and condescending the way you phrased it. I've always just done simple to the point private messages when mistakes are made. They get straightened out quickly. Usually with an apology and an explanation. In the event that it did break down into hostile feelings it'd get forwarded to leadership. The less people exposed to a disagreement, the less drama it creates.