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[Guide] Cosmic Raven's Version of Heavy Questing

DeletedUser28299

Stephen, you aren't really being clear about what principle you think you are adding. You *just* need an Alcatraz AND attack great buildings at unreasonably high levels for the strategy you are describing as I understand it. But the payoff (early) is much better if you invest in a Chateau or other buildings and then invest in the attack/defense GBs only after you have the FP snowball running. So in the early part of the game you should choose the Chateau over the Alcatraz. You haven't offered anything that contradicts that.

Your strategy might be about even with the CF strategy if your only output were GE. So as long as you limit yourself strictly to that you look sort of close. But once since the CF strategy is just as good for GE (through goods rather than fighting) and better at expansions, better at net goods, better at net coins, and better at FPs per day, it isn't really a helpful focus.
 

Stephen Longshanks

Stephen, you aren't really being clear about what principle you think you are adding. You *just* need an Alcatraz AND attack great buildings at unreasonably high levels for the strategy you are describing as I understand it. But the payoff (early) is much better if you invest in a Chateau or other buildings and then invest in the attack/defense GBs only after you have the FP snowball running. So in the early part of the game you should choose the Chateau over the Alcatraz. You haven't offered anything that contradicts that.

Your strategy might be about even with the CF strategy if your only output were GE. So as long as you limit yourself strictly to that you look sort of close. But once since the CF strategy is just as good for GE (through goods rather than fighting) and better at expansions, better at net goods, better at net coins, and better at FPs per day, it isn't really a helpful focus.
The question I was addressing is why you would want more than 1 Rogue Hideout if you have an Alcatraz. The question didn't have anything to do with Alcatraz vs Chateau Frontenac. But thanks for playing.
 

DeletedUser29206

ok so this is the reconstructed city : (major surgery) --- da*n those alchemist are expensive

coins spent = 435,000
supplies spent = 89,900
just to build 29 alchemists



with all GBs except for the Castel del Monte
29 alchemists ...I know it should be 30... but did not want to get rid of my heavy cav. for now.
24 multi story = 42,400 coin per day or -- 4 * 10,560
1 habitat = 11,800 coin per day
1 manor = 9,680 coin per day
1 chateau = 7,670 coin per day
166 m/p = 14,940 coin per day
total coin per day = 86,330

gives me 3 solid UBQs per day
plus 10 pay 8,000 quests
and 14 saltpeter quests

within range for 3 expansions on the tech tree
and if medals roll in then 1 victory expansion
--------------- 4 expansion in 5-10 days ---------------------
--- I can either produce goods until the CF is up to par
--- or build out another 10 alchemists

any feedback appreciated....
 

DeletedUser28021

within range for 3 expansions on the tech tree
and if medals roll in then 1 victory expansion
--------------- 4 expansion in 5-10 days ---------------------
--- I can either produce goods until the CF is up to par
--- or build out another 10 alchemists

any feedback appreciated....
I'm currently experimenting with *not* taking tech tree expansions unless they are either en route to a tech directly needed for HQS, or forced by some event with a "research a tech" requirement. My goal is to avoid being forced into a future age by events, and still be able to do more of the events.

I don't know what CR would say about this, but it seems more consistent with the HQS writeup so far.

Of course this may change *if* Inno sticks to their promise of providing non-tech ways of accomplishing future events. But so far, they only seem to be doing that with minor events.
 

DeletedUser25273

As to why not have a given quest in multiple slots, you can't. II had a similar thought, and found that when cycling through the quests it skips any quests you currently have open. In OF though, there are several identical copies of some of the quests, which act like different quests, so you can have multiple copies of the same text, but they are different quests.
 

DeletedUser29206

I'm currently experimenting with *not* taking tech tree expansions unless they are either en route to a tech directly needed for HQS, or forced by some event with a "research a tech" requirement. My goal is to avoid being forced into a future age by events, and still be able to do more of the events.

I don't know what CR would say about this, but it seems more consistent with the HQS writeup so far.

Of course this may change *if* Inno sticks to their promise of providing non-tech ways of accomplishing future events. But so far, they only seem to be doing that with minor events.
looks like you are inline with the HQS based on what I read so far.

in the guide it looks like CR is saying to spend the forge points and stockpile the resources but to hold off on unlocking the research until an event forces the unlock.

I am also slowing my game play way down to acquire resources needed in future eras. I have most of the HMA tech tree available to me. unfortunately I raced thru the c-map like a madman so I only have 2 provinces left in HMA and will be forced to scout a province in LMA if I want to participate in the events.

tomorrow is my first true all HQS day so we will see how it goes. so far with the limited questing it looks good, just a little slow on the resources, and the pay 8000/8000 for 6-8 bricks seems a little exorbitant. perhaps as the CF levels up it gets better, but for now iti is hindering coin and supply stockpiling. this is just a skimming the surface level analysis or swag... definitely needs time for any true measurements on performance,
 

DeletedUser23444

The question I was addressing is why you would want more than 1 Rogue Hideout if you have an Alcatraz. The question didn't have anything to do with Alcatraz vs Chateau Frontenac. But thanks for playing.
Very simple answer to this question. In the introduction to this strategy I pointed out that HQS is about building a player's city such that they can be and asset to a GvG or GE guild. In a GvG guild we want ATTACHED units to be able to place defensive armies or siege armies in GvG Sectors. We should never use unattached units for either purpose. I'm in a GE + GvG guild, not a GE-only guild. This is why the city plans I crank out usually have 3 Rogue hideouts and about 4-5 regular unit barracks. That means as many as 26 attached units are available for placing GvG armies per 24 hours (more if they paid diamonds to unlock more Rogue Training Slots).

Also, like Elrinder and I have tried to explain to you about 4 times now between us, this guide is about Heavy Questing with CF-enhanced quest rewards. We have players rush the CF and delay the Traz, so that they don't go broke trying to construct both GBs in the same period. I get every Noob minion in my Guild a CF in HMA, because that is going to help double their total number of completed quests per day and thus double the total number of medals and FP packs scored from questing per day. The CF is going to pay for itself much quicker than Traz, and it takes up less land. And since the players delay Traz (and most combat bonus GBs) until Colonial Age, that is another reason to build 3 Rogue Hideouts. then there is also the extra attached units for GvG armies. This means my HMA players are going to have CF but they aren't going to have a Traz (and since I'm the guy who sells them their goods I won't even give them Traz goods until after they sprint to Colonial Age, which sort of lights a fire under their butts to build up the resources to sprint from HMA to Colonial Age ASAP).


In my guild, since we let our noobs work HQS, we task them more with the GvG duties that are about filling sector defensive armies or laying siege armies for their time period. It is not actually required for a player to own either Alcatraz or a high combat bonus for either GvG duty. So even though my noob minions own less combat-related GBs, they can still help our guild in GvG. This frees up our players who DO own an Alcatraz and a decent combat bonus to do more of the actual fighting with their unattached units that are buffed by a combat bonus. And we expect both groups of players to complete GE at least through level 2 (but we do unlock all 4 GE levels weekly, and many of my HMA players complete 3-4 GE levels without Traz). We have divided the GvG labor up in our guild in order to allow our Noob Minions to focus more on snowballing their city.

A player entering HMA doesn't own much, they have a boatload of GBs to construct and they need to work on acquiring: blueprints, construction goods, tech goods, and tech FPs. There is simply too much at the phase of the game a player needs to accomplish. If you try to construct every GB you will eventually own at the same time, and you have a finite number of FPs per day with which to swap, then none of those GBs are going to level up fast enough to be more than a waste of land. We set the GB priorities a certain way, one that is proven to accelerate the expansion rate of a city, which means their city is going to produce more daily: Goods, Medals, and FPs.

One CF kit costs 350 FPs and one Traz kit costs 350 FPs. I don't want my HMA players paying for both of these GBs while they are in HMA. And they are going to get a CF, since it is vital to HQS. So instead of spending a second 350 FPs for Traz goods (plus chasing down 2 complete sets of BPS for GBs from PE), I want them to instead advance to Colonial Age as soon as they can sprint from HMA to CA. So the CF wins and the Traz waits in the wings. And that is part of the strategy now and forever. When they get up to Colonial Age, they will have a lot more land at their disposal, and also by that time they have significant GB levels in the 5 GBs we had them prioritize for HMA (CF, CdM, HS, StM, LoA). So once they jump up to CA, they can start building: Arc, Traz and other combat bonus GBs, since they won't have a city fill of under-leveled GBs. Instead, their 5 "snowball GBs" (CF, CdM, HS, StM, LoA) will all be in the level 5 to level 7 range and helping their city sustain more rapid expansion.

This is all laid out in different parts of this strategy that I doubt you took any time to read for comprehension. Like I said, you don't practice the strategy and you have no use for it. So kind leave the topic. You are trying to argue you values in a strategy that is based on completely different values. Your "advice" simply doesn't fit here because it comes from the context of a different gaming strategy. And the title of topic clearly states that this is guide about HQS, not the strategy you use to play FoE.
 
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DeletedUser23444

I'm currently experimenting with *not* taking tech tree expansions unless they are either en route to a tech directly needed for HQS, or forced by some event with a "research a tech" requirement. My goal is to avoid being forced into a future age by events, and still be able to do more of the events. I don't know what CR would say about this, but it seems more consistent with the HQS writeup so far.
Guys I want everyone to keep this thought in mind.

  • Regular FoE player — Races through tech and across C Map, usually in pursuit of all land expansions. Doesn't score many medals or diamonds per week, or per time period. Expands city quickly mainly with tech and C map expansions and takes forever to expand with medals and diamond expansions. Doesn't swap as many FPs to GBs, so most GBs are under-leveled. This player is always going to get forced into a later time period, since less likley to have any techs or provinces skipped to have some available for event quest credit. This means that the next week of GE is going to kick his ass, since he won't have the units required to complete all 4 levels.

  • HQS FoE player — Sprints to strategic technology vital to HQS, then slow crawls or completely halts techs to focus most or all FPs on FP Swaps to level up GBs faster. Completes more quests per day, thus scores more: FPs + Medals + Goods per day (a lot more once CF is about level 5-6) ; also, scores a few more diamonds per period. Expands city quicker via diamonds and medals than others players do, but delays city expansion through tech expansions or C Map expansions than other players do. However, when next event rolls around this player usually has a land expansion ready to unlock for special event quest credit, which ideally should coincide with also unlocking a technology for Story Quest Credit. The same thing should be done the C Map—complete a story quest to scout/infiltrate/negotiate/conquer in conjunction with completing an event quest to scout/infiltrate/negotiate/conquer. This player is going to have several techs and provinces skipped so as to always have some available for event quest credit.
HQS essentially flip-flops the order that we acquire land expansions—we increase rate of medals expansion by so much it is not a contest to other FoE strategies. One, we are questing for medals, and CF bonus applies to medals packages. Two, we are swapping more FPs to GBs, which means we score more medals from donation rewards. Three, believe it or not we can still fight and win some tower medals. Our fighting won't be as much as a Non-HQS player until about mid-to-late Colonial Age. But by the time we leave CA, our city is full of level 10 GBs, which does include Traz, CoA, CdM, and SoZ and we are ready for war.

Go read the introduction I wrote months ago about why we do things different in HQS. This is a proven game strategy. While HQS might be new to most players who find this topic, the fact is I've been working on HQS, along with many other players, for over two full years now.
 
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DeletedUser23444

As to why not have a given quest in multiple slots, you can't. II had a similar thought, and found that when cycling through the quests it skips any quests you currently have open. In OF though, there are several identical copies of some of the quests, which act like different quests, so you can have multiple copies of the same text, but they are different quests.
In CA an beyond we can simultaneously work two recurring quest, but they must be different quests. So "produce supplies" on slot 1 and "collect supplies" on slot 2. And if CF has enough levels, and we have enough coins & supplies, then while we abort-cycle slot 1 around to the next "produce supplies" quest, we also complete 1 UBQ. That is when the whole process starts to come online and be lucrative. But in order to get there we must level the Holy Trinity of questing GBs: CF + StM + LoA. Otherwise, we can't afford to spam the UBQs and we won't get as much for each UBQ.
 

DeletedUser23444

ok so this is the reconstructed city : (major surgery) --- da*n those alchemist are expensive
...
(A) 29 alchemists ...I know it should be 30... but did not want to get rid of my heavy cav. for now.
...
(B) 24 multi story = 42,400 coin per day or -- 4 * 10,560
...
(C) --- I can either produce goods until the CF is up to par

A. Having an odd Alchemist (or Clockmaker in CA) is not the worst thing. I cannot count how many times I've cost myself a produce supplies quest , but click-dragging and collecting too many supply productions and left myself short for the next quest.

B. I wish you had spent your diamonds on land, especially since you have Habitat for population. In your specific case you want to use the high-coins production houses with lowest population density, that have the longest production cycle (to reduce AID clicks). That Hab is really going to hinder your coins production. No GB's 24-hour coins production is going to replace the coins production of houses that are both: motivated and buffed by St. Marks.

C. Dump the conventional good production, add more Alchs, and trade your HMA quest goods down 1→2 for EMA goods for GE, tech, and other uses. If you don't get goods, you might get medals or FPs.


D. Happiness. I would make leveling your HS a priority which should let you dump more and more cultural buildings from this city and free up a lot more more land as your HS gets some levels. You have so much land tied up in happiness structures right now, presumably because your HS is new and under-leveled. Also this will greatly reduce daily Aid clicks required.

E. Let your coins and supplies stockpile build back up before you start spamming UBQs. This will also allow your CF to get more levels before you spam them. About the time you reach a stockpile of 8 million coins (don't worry about supplies, coins is the limiting agent in the equation here), then your CF will have levels; so while each UBQ will cost you the same, the payouts will be better as far as: coins, supplies, goods, and medals are concerned.

F. No more GBs until Colonial Age, level these ones up, excluding Habitat. If you acquire a bunhc of SoKs, then you can level up Hab.

G. Next Storage Kit you score, store the Confectionery.
 
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Stephen Longshanks

Very simple answer to this question. In the introduction to this strategy I pointed out that HQS is about building a player's city such that they can be and asset to a GvG or GE guild. In a GvG guild we want ATTACHED units to be able to place defensive armies or siege armies in GvG Sectors. We should never use unattached units for either purpose. I'm in a GE + GvG guild, not a GE-only guild. This is why the city plans I crank out usually have 3 Rogue hideouts and about 4-5 regular unit barracks. That means as many as 26 attached units are available for placing GvG armies per 24 hours (more if they paid diamonds to unlock more Rogue Training Slots).

Also, like Elrinder and I have tried to explain to you about 4 times now between us, this guide is about Heavy Questing with CF-enhanced quest rewards. We have players rush the CF and delay the Traz, so that they don't go broke trying to construct both GBs in the same period. I get every Noob minion in my Guild a CF in HMA, because that is going to help double their total number of completed quests per day and thus double the total number of medals and FP packs scored from questing per day. The CF is going to pay for itself much quicker than Traz, and it takes up less land. And since the players delay Traz (and most combat bonus GBs) until Colonial Age, that is another reason to build 3 Rogue Hideouts. then there is also the extra attached units for GvG armies. This means my HMA players are going to have CF but they aren't going to have a Traz (and since I'm the guy who sells them their goods I won't even give them Traz goods until after they sprint to Colonial Age, which sort of lights a fire under their butts to build up the resources to sprint from HMA to Colonial Age ASAP).


In my guild, since we let our noobs work HQS, we task them more with the GvG duties that are about filling sector defensive armies or laying siege armies for their time period. It is not actually required for a player to own either Alcatraz or a high combat bonus for either GvG duty. So even though my noob minions own less combat-related GBs, they can still help our guild in GvG. This frees up our players who DO own an Alcatraz and a decent combat bonus to do more of the actual fighting with their unattached units that are buffed by a combat bonus. And we expect both groups of players to complete GE at least through level 2 (but we do unlock all 4 GE levels weekly, and many of my HMA players complete 3-4 GE levels without Traz). We have divided the GvG labor up in our guild in order to allow our Noob Minions to focus more on snowballing their city.

A player entering HMA doesn't own much, they have a boatload of GBs to construct and they need to work on acquiring: blueprints, construction goods, tech goods, and tech FPs. There is simply too much at the phase of the game a player needs to accomplish. If you try to construct every GB you will eventually own at the same time, and you have a finite number of FPs per day with which to swap, then none of those GBs are going to level up fast enough to be more than a waste of land. We set the GB priorities a certain way, one that is proven to accelerate the expansion rate of a city, which means their city is going to produce more daily: Goods, Medals, and FPs.

One CF kit costs 350 FPs and one Traz kit costs 350 FPs. I don't want my HMA players paying for both of these GBs while they are in HMA. And they are going to get a CF, since it is vital to HQS. So instead of spending a second 350 FPs for Traz goods (plus chasing down 2 complete sets of BPS for GBs from PE), I want them to instead advance to Colonial Age as soon as they can sprint from HMA to CA. So the CF wins and the Traz waits in the wings. And that is part of the strategy now and forever. When they get up to Colonial Age, they will have a lot more land at their disposal, and also by that time they have significant GB levels in the 5 GBs we had them prioritize for HMA (CF, CdM, HS, StM, LoA). So once they jump up to CA, they can start building: Arc, Traz and other combat bonus GBs, since they won't have a city fill of under-leveled GBs. Instead, their 5 "snowball GBs" (CF, CdM, HS, StM, LoA) will all be in the level 5 to level 7 range and helping their city sustain more rapid expansion.

This is all laid out in different parts of this strategy that I doubt you took any time to read for comprehension. Like I said, you don't practice the strategy and you have no use for it. So kind leave the topic. You are trying to argue you values in a strategy that is based on completely different values. Your "advice" simply doesn't fit here because it comes from the context of a different gaming strategy. And the title of topic clearly states that this is guide about HQS, not the strategy you use to play FoE.
You make the same mistake as Elrinder, trying to recast my answer as an Alcatraz vs Chateau Frontenac question. I have no dispute with you saying to get the CF before the Traz. For your strategy, that is the best path.

I was simply addressing the question of how many Rogue Hideouts you need if you have a Traz already. Since you brought GvG into it, you would be correct in that you would then need regular military barracks for producing attached units for defense and siege armies. However, everyone knows that you never want to use more than 1 Rogue (if even that) in a GvG defense army (or any defense army, for that matter), so you would still only need 1 Rogue Hideout. And after a couple of weeks, you could delete your regular military buildings, because you'd have plenty of unattached troops for GvG purposes. The number of troops needed for a particular age of GvG is limited (unless that noob is the only one supplying units for it, in which case you probably shouldn't be in GvG for that age anyway), and it makes no sense to devote much of your city to that purpose, when it clearly will take space away that you could use for more production buildings. Just because I don't follow, or even like, your strategy, doesn't mean I don't understand it.
 

DeletedUser23444

I was simply addressing the question of how many Rogue Hideouts you need if you have a Traz already... so you would still only need 1 Rogue Hideout
This is also not always true. It has a lot to do with the ratio of regular barracks (of varying unit types) a player maintains in his city compared to the number of Rogue Hideouts. Assuming a player is going to participate in both GE and GvG on a frequent basis, they are going to require a minimum of three Rogue Hideouts to go along with an average of 1 barracks each for about three different regular units types (assuming in any period that 3 units are good or great and the other 2 units are less effective or garbage). This reason for the extra Hideouts is to ensure that Traz will produce a good population of Rogues compared to the other unit types. With only a single Rogue Hideout and 3 to 5 regular barracks, Traz is not going to produce enough unattached Rogues to satisfy a GvG fighter. Myself, I prefer 4 Rogue Hideouts to 5 regular barracks/Champions' Retreats. However, some other players in my guild actually prefer 6 Hideouts. Keep in mind that these preferences are with an Alactraz that is level 10 or below, not up in the Stratosphere already (well above level 10 and thus producing many more units per day).


However, everyone knows that you never want to use more than 1 Rogue (if even that) in a GvG defense army (or any defense army, for that matter)
This is not as true in the lower ages (Ind on down) like it is in the later eras (PE and up), because the movement scale of the lower age battle maps are much different and Rogues move just as fast, and just as far per turn, as light units from those periods. So a Rogue in any period named "an age" is going to be in your face much quicker than what happens in any period named "an era". In fact, during a several-months-long GvG war, when I was still in HMA, I was able to frustrate the hell out of our enemies with different variations for the following siege and defensive army composition.
  • 2-3 Rogues + 2-3 HMA Heavy Infantry + 2-3 HMA Knights

In the numbers above, 2-3 means switch up which of each unit type in the 8-unit Army Compositions have 2 copies and which have 3 copies. While each possible composition might appear close to the same, by switching around the 2s and 3s to different units, combined with the RNG transformation of the Rogues, it can actually create a wide array of different 8-unit compositions after all the Rogues have transformed. The composition above, and all of its variants, can vary enough to make it such that an attacking fighter cannot just field the same army composition over-and-over, and click "Auto" on each battle, without chewing up a number of his units where many of them are at least going to sustain damage. It is especially important to damage as many of his unattached Rogues as we can, maybe even kill 1 or 2 of them per battle. After all, warfare is the ultimate supply-chain management problem and it is an attrition problem. That comp proved to be one of the best unit-chewing comps we defended with in HMA. Now this being said, no way I would try the same comp in PE or later; I agree Rogues on defense just doesn't work in the later eras. Industrial Age is even borderline as far as Rogues go, because most Ind units have ranged attacks.

However, Rogues did get nerfed a bit a few updates back, where they now always move last. So this might affect the math now of how many Rogues to use on defense. To be honest I haven't fought lower ages GvG since that change was added. But back when Rogues moved when light units moved, the comp variations discussed above worked quite well for defense.


after a couple of weeks, you could delete your regular military buildings, because you'd have plenty of unattached troops for GvG purposes.
You have obviously never been in a GvG war to the same scale that I have. At one point in a CA GvG war, I had numerous barracks, 4 Rogue Hideouts, and an Alcatraz, and I was always running out of units. GE didn't exist during this time frame, but even if it did, that would not have been enough units. It's not just about having the attached units to place for siege and defense armies. It is also about having enough units at 100% health to continue fighting with, at all hours of the day, which requires a much larger unit population (attached or unattached). I have burned through as many as 300 Rogues in single evening of GvG, meaning that 300 Rogues that I fielded were either wounded or killed and in either case were unable to fight my next GvG battle, due to the long training/healing time. If there is ever a lull in the fighting and a player gets time to build up unattached units, then yes selling a few barracks makes sense.


The number of troops needed for a particular age of GvG is limited
In a GvG+GE guild the number of troops needed for a particular age of GvG is limitless, not limited. That is, if both our own guild and our enemy's guild are hell bent on taking the other one off that particular GvG map; in that case, 1000s of units are going to die a glorious death and 1000s of goods are going to evaporate into thin air. Like I said above, it doesn't sound like you've participated in a GvG war to the same scale my guild has.

It makes no sense to devote much of your city to that purpose, when it clearly will take space away that you could use for more production buildings.
In general I'm all for limiting other buildings to put in more supply production buildings. However, 3 Rogue Hideouts actually fit quite nicely in most HQS city plans for either HMA or CA, because we always need some buildings that are N x 3 wide in each horizontal neighborhood; in fact, there is no way around this due to how 4x4 land expansions work with supply buildings that are 2 tiles wide. There will always 1 tile of land, running vertically throughout the city, that is simply road, which means we are always going to need some N x 3 buildings anyway.

All of this being said, I never force anyone to use all 5 regular unit types. Every player prefers to use different units. So when I help plan cities generically, I try to plan for 4 or 5 different types of regular units. But of course, if a player has 100+ unattached of one unit type, then yeah it doesn't make sense to keep carrying any more of those barracks for awhile. But a player without an Alcatraz, and without a substantial combat bonus, isn't going to have this until they negotiate GE for several weeks.

You have to remember, I'm trying to generalize advice to a mass of players, who are certainly going to have variables I cannot always account for (how they expanded their city before they read my guide or which GBs they rushed to construct are two notable examples that throw the largest monkey wrench into things). So in the sample city plans I provide, I try to strike a balance of how to cram a lot in, while working as many quests as we can. Man, if I could have worked HQS in a GE-only guild, then my GBs would all be level 20+ now, without exaggeration. At one point of our HMA GvG war, I had as many as 15 rax in my city.

But I need to out think some players who might be read this guide. Some day, some player is going to want to work HQS in a really GvG-heavy guild. And he's going to point his guild leaders at this guide and say: "I'm working that strategy to build up my city, but here is how I can help our guild while I do it." And the HQS strategy actually came from this very process. You cannot imagine the debates that used to have with some guild founders, leaders, and even my peers, in my own guild when I was first bungling my own way through this Strategy. (check any of my posted city plans throughout the topic, they have many mistakes). Most of my guild mates just didn't get, much less agree to it. I know a few players who think all a city needs is Alcatraz + SoZ + CoA + CdM, and umpteeny and umpteen barracks. And I'm not joking when I say this.

But after I first started started figuring this stuff out (at one point I had to only CF in my entire guild which was 80 members at the time) not only did my city start to expand quicker, we took in two noobs who were late EMA or early HMA, both with 0 GBs. And I took these players aside and coached them how to catch up to everyone who was higher age. Then, 9-10 months later both of them complete bypassed me and ended up in the Future Era before me, by following a revised HQS strategy that I had adapted from all of my earlier mistakes. They ended up being two of our best GvG fighters. They also passed up some of the players who used to argue with me. After this happened, no one in our guild questioned HQS any more. And what's even more important is that by fostering a guild environment that allowed players to build up their cities quickly, I could turn new recruits into very loyal guild members who enjoyed being in our guild.

The point to that guild digression is to explain that HQS was actually refined into a strategy inside of a heavy-GvG guild, where being able to contribute to GvG in some manner was a very high priority; but we tried to balance that GvG priority in ways that do not bankrupt a newer player who is still trying to expand their city and build up their GB infrastructure. Placing sieges and defensive armies is of considerable value in a GvG guild. And my guild maintains holdings in HMA and above. (We might even still have some EMA holdings but I never check that far down). We use HMA as our GvG training ground for all of our new recruits.
 
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DeletedUser28021

Hi CR,

Thank you for the responses I just read.

I've got another clarification question for you. For ages other than HMA, CA, and LMA what triggers moving to the next age? And how much should one build while in them?

HMA one hangs out in until one has several specifc GBs at level 10, and all the stored goods and FPs to reach clockmakers in CA
CA one hangs out in until one has a larger list of specific GBs at level 10, and all the stored goods and FPs to reach some particular target farther on - not sure what that is.
LMA one presumably goes straight through, never building much of anything, as a spring from HMA to CA.

But what about the others.

Let's start with BA, IA, and EMA? You've mentioned just staying long enough to score diamonds from all feaible loop quests. This would presumably involve building a lot of things from the era, and a rather unpredictable length of time. I kind of think that applies to those eras.

But what about eras after CA? Where does an HQS player go from there? IIRC, all you've said about this case involves needs of their guilds, e.g. for fighters in particular eras. But with a 19 page thread, I quite likely don't recall correctly.
 

Stephen Longshanks

This is not as true in the lower ages (Ind on down) like it is in the later eras (PE and up), because the movement scale of the lower age battle maps are much different and Rogues move just as fast, and just as far per turn, as light units from those periods. So a Rogue in any period named "an age" is going to be in your face much quicker than what happens in any period named "an era". In fact, during a several-months-long GvG war, when I was still in HMA, I was able to frustrate the hell out of our enemies with different variations for the following siege and defensive army composition.
  • 2-3 Rogues + 2-3 HMA Heavy Infantry + 2-3 HMA Knights
I would wipe the floor with that army. 4-6 Crossbows and 2-4 Trebuchet would decimate the Knights, then the Heavies, then pick off the Rogues. Did that constantly when I was in HMA. You apparently had incompetent enemies.
You have obviously never been in a GvG war to the same scale that I have. At one point in a CA GvG war, I had numerous barracks, 4 Rogue Hideouts, and an Alcatraz, and I was always running out of units. GE didn't exist during this time frame, but even if it did, that would not have been enough units. It's not just about having the attached units to place for siege and defense armies. It is also about having enough units at 100% health to continue fighting with, at all hours of the day, which requires a much larger unit population (attached or unattached). I have burned through as many as 300 Rogues in single evening of GvG, meaning that 300 Rogues that I fielded were either wounded or killed and in either case were unable to fight my next GvG battle, due to the long training/healing time. If there is ever a lull in the fighting and a player gets time to build up unattached units, then yes selling a few barracks makes sense.
And, once again, you are switching up the subject. The subject was noobs in HMA (approximately) supplying defense/siege armies, and now you're trying to change it to active GvG fighters in full scale battle mode. It's like trying to debate a politician.

Since you keep trying to change the focus to avoid admitting you're wrong about something, I'll simply add this: If you're a GvG fighter, then you do need to concentrate on the 3 good units in any age for your army. However, if you're supplying defense armies, you need to have a supply of all 5 units. Simply because the only way to slow down an attacking army in GvG is with a variety of defense armies, not a cut and paste unit lineup. And we were talking about noobs supplying DAs and siege armies, not fighting all-out in GvG.
 

DeletedUser29206

A. Having an odd Alchemist (or Clockmaker in CA) is not the worst thing. I cannot count how many times I've cost myself a produce supplies quest , but click-dragging and collecting too many supply productions and left myself short for the next quest.

B. I wish you had spent your diamonds on land, especially since you have Habitat for population. In your specific case you want to use the high-coins production houses with lowest population density, that have the longest production cycle (to reduce AID clicks). That Hab is really going to hinder your coins production. No GB's 24-hour coins production is going to replace the coins production of houses that are both: motivated and buffed by St. Marks.

C. Dump the conventional good production, add more Alchs, and trade your HMA quest goods down 1→2 for EMA goods for GE, tech, and other uses. If you don't get goods, you might get medals or FPs.


D. Happiness. I would make leveling your HS a priority which should let you dump more and more cultural buildings from this city and free up a lot more more land as your HS gets some levels. You have so much land tied up in happiness structures right now, presumably because your HS is new and under-leveled. Also this will greatly reduce daily Aid clicks required.

E. Let your coins and supplies stockpile build back up before you start spamming UBQs. This will also allow your CF to get more levels before you spam them. About the time you reach a stockpile of 8 million coins (don't worry about supplies, coins is the limiting agent in the equation here), then your CF will have levels; so while each UBQ will cost you the same, the payouts will be better as far as: coins, supplies, goods, and medals are concerned.

F. No more GBs until Colonial Age, level these ones up, excluding Habitat. If you acquire a bunhc of SoKs, then you can level up Hab.

G. Next Storage Kit you score, store the Confectionery.
awesome !!! thank you ...

A. my thought exactly, besides it fit nicely in the city plan, and I get the extra supplies, if all goes well. If I messup I have a back up :D

B. there are no more diamond expansions at this point. only tech and victory ... i.e. why I got the deal castle to start with, but this set up seems better so far :p

C. hmmm... my stubborn mind and ocd kicking in... will do ... but love having that steady flow.

D. yep the HS is still a level 1 ... ditto for the CF ... just got them a few days ago. I did put a note in my profile to have those donating FPs avoid the habitat and concentrate on the HS and CF.

E. wow that is a whole lot of coin, I've collected 3.2 mill coin since starting this game and only have about 70k at the moment. this will take roughly 100 days at current production rates, and not spending any of it ... well at this point I do not have much to spend it on anyway.
--- Do I still do the make 2 saltpeter quests and the collect 25K coins quests? those are the 2 I am concentrating on now.
--- the pay 8000 each coins and supplies was devastating my stockpile. -- will I still get medals an forge points with the two quest listed above?

F. Agreed plate already way too full... also need to figure out on how to drop more cultural buildings... how do I get SoKs, or other buildings you mentioned to offset the habitat??

G. where and how do I score a storage kit? -- as you can tell I am still quite the noobie when it comes to this game.
 

yochananmichael

New Member
awesome !!! thank you ...

A. my thought exactly, besides it fit nicely in the city plan, and I get the extra supplies, if all goes well. If I messup I have a back up :D

B. there are no more diamond expansions at this point. only tech and victory ... i.e. why I got the deal castle to start with, but this set up seems better so far :p

C. hmmm... my stubborn mind and ocd kicking in... will do ... but love having that steady flow.

D. yep the HS is still a level 1 ... ditto for the CF ... just got them a few days ago. I did put a note in my profile to have those donating FPs avoid the habitat and concentrate on the HS and CF.

E. wow that is a whole lot of coin, I've collected 3.2 mill coin since starting this game and only have about 70k at the moment. this will take roughly 100 days at current production rates, and not spending any of it ... well at this point I do not have much to spend it on anyway.
--- Do I still do the make 2 saltpeter quests and the collect 25K coins quests? those are the 2 I am concentrating on now.
--- the pay 8000 each coins and supplies was devastating my stockpile. -- will I still get medals an forge points with the two quest listed above?

F. Agreed plate already way too full... also need to figure out on how to drop more cultural buildings... how do I get SoKs, or other buildings you mentioned to offset the habitat??

G. where and how do I score a storage kit? -- as you can tell I am still quite the noobie when it comes to this game.

yep keep doing them they are your bread and butter. I am in the same guild as CR and that is the core of what I do. Attached is my version of my City Bravos http://foemanager.com/city-planner/app/. tag M8YVUE96JB
Typically we save spamming the UBQs until we amass 8 M coins/supplies for HMA. The saltpeter and the coins quests plus the "Holy Trinity" are key to this. Currently, my HS is at level 6 my CF is almost level 3 my LoA is level 5 and StM is level 2. I am putting heavy focus in getting my CF to level 5 or 6 getting 1 more level in HS and then getting StM to level 5 and getting CdM before sprinting to Colonial. I am actively hunting the rest of the prints now. I started this city 108 days ago and I am now at this point. I very well may be in Colonial by the end of the summer event. The random expansion you see was a victory expansion from pure HQS rewards, rewards from GB and the T-Hunt and speaking of which my level 2 CF pumped out 2 48 Medal packs and T-Hunt gave me 12 for a total of 108 Medals just today alone. I am also more than halfway to the 3000 Medal expansion. I am in the beginning of the snowball to be sure but it's already picking up speed. Trust me and CR you won't be disappointed
 

DeletedUser29269

Greetings. I've been lurking this thread since I stumbled on it about 6 weeks ago. I had already latched onto a quest loop build that was working well - I thought - and I was making some progress. Then comes this thread, and blow a huge hole in how I was approaching things. It took what I was trying to figure out and slowly get setup to a whole different place much more efficiently. So . . . THANK YOU!

For anyone that cares to read, I wanted to do a short wall of text to share my experience with Heavy Questing so far.

Before I started the reconstruction based on this thread, I had just hit HMA, x3 of each HMA boosted good bulding, about 16-20 alchemists, and 1 hour collection housing. GB's I had in place already were Babel, LoA, CoA, Zeus, Obs, and I finished ToR while going over this thread and over it and over it before deciding to pull the trigger. I had completed a few events, had a full cherry garden, the king/queen/ruin set, a ww, and x1 sok. I thought I had done pretty good for myself. I was cranking out about 30-35 FP a day depending on when I could collect and GB's were climbing levels.

Then I decided to drink the Kool-Aid of this thread and jumped in with both feet. Over the last 5 weeks or so, I've been rebuilding to fit CR's process. This was not an easy decision to make as it mean making some hard choices and destroying (selling) days worth of my time and effort into some events and GB's. I also have a challenge, that nobody in my guild is doing this kind of strat so I'm on my own.

I had to start by selling off stuff to make room for more Alch's. It hurt a bit, but I sold off my king / queen statue / ruin set from the last event, sold my level 4 Babel, and my level 4 CoA, and I sold a few extra pieces of the cherry garden set I was using for an extra fp each day. I then pumped as many Alch's as I could and changed my housing to 8 hour town homes. This resulted in a lot more completed quests per day and which made the loss of those GB's a bit easier to stomach. I opted to keep ToR and the OBS because I want to. The OBS for guild help of course, and I like the gambling aspect of the ToR. It's sitting at level 3 and I couldn't bring myself to dump it too.

I then worked with a high level guildy to do a FP swap to get the BP's for CF. In the meantime, I aquired a full set of CdM prints and most of StM prints from mp/po and random FP swap threads within the guild. I burned all 5-fp and 10-fp packs on the swaps to get the CF prints. In the end, I bought the last two with diamonds because I was tired of waiting. I also worked a deal with 3 other players for trading PE goods for FP. I still owe two of them about a weeks worth of FP's but they took a leap of faith (non guildies) and gave me the goods up front to save FP on market trades. I had never considered trading goods for FP until i read it in this thread. I had no idea how I was going to amass the goods with little to no guild help with up trading. I think it worked out to like 35000 HMA goods to trade up to get the PE goods for the building . . . impossible otherwise. It took some conversations and convincing a couple players of the value, but I managed it. Inno tower and arc in colonial age don't seem as daunting now that I know goods to FP trading can work.

To get the CF built, I had to sell off my HMA goods buildings - another leap of faith that this process would produce enough goods. Today, as in about an hour ago, I have a shiny new CF! My guild was a bit stunned when I threw it up in the Stix to Brix thread. I ran thru all of my alchs - 52 - and the results were exactly as advertised. The new CF even at level 1 is HUGE. I didn't quite make back the same amount of goods as I would have doing the quests without CF + my goods buildings, but it was close. That gap will be overpassed once I level CF a bit. I also gained almost 200 medals . . . crazy since I'd been fighting for the top PvP spot for weeks at only 100 in a week. This works . . . and it works well.

I'm a few BP's short of StM still, but should have them by the time I have CF up to level 4-6. I already have the full set of prints for CdM also, but I'm going to wait on that until the other GB's are all 5+ or I hit CA. I'm not in a hurry for it, because the cherry garden set is producing 5FP / 5 goods per day. The CdM will need to be level 9 before it produces 5 FP a day for the same amount of tiles. Yes the cherry set can be plundered, but I have it timed for a period of day that I'm also able to collect it. Eventually the CdM will go in and the garden will be sold off.

I also am using the Lord's Manor which makes more pop and gold then x4 town homes so it's worth it to keep. I also have done my final (i hope) redesign for HMA and have managed to fit 56 alchemists along with space for all of CR's GB's. 56! I'm please as hell at that. Even with my non square map, I got 56! The map went into the dogleg on purpose - prior to me starting down this thread. My goal had always been to dump the GB's off into it. I think it works well. There are wasted tiles on the edge, but that will be remedied as I build it out in CA to make it square again. I've attached a pic of the foe planner layout - only thing I don't have up yet myself is the StM. Everything else is in place. Ignore the CdM and tiles in the middle, that is my staging area for moving things around. Here is the city planner tag as well C9CXY5YZR1

Anyway, thanks for reading, and thank you to CR and others that have helped convince me to take a chance and go down this road. It is certainly not for everyone, and it takes a shit ton of planning and commitment to get it up and running especially with guildies that don't get what you're trying to do. But here I am on day 1 of my CF, and I'm convinced. Cheers.
 

Attachments

DeletedUser29269

Here is a pic of my actual city. You can see the last few Alch's are almost done, and there is room for the StM in the bottom corner. Advice is welcome, but not sure how I can possibly add any more pairs of Alch's here.

Current GB levels:
CF - 1
ToR - 3
LoA - 5
HS - 5
Zeus - 5
OBS - 2
 

Attachments

yochananmichael

New Member
Greetings. I've been lurking this thread since I stumbled on it about 6 weeks ago. I had already latched onto a quest loop build that was working well - I thought - and I was making some progress. Then comes this thread, and blow a huge hole in how I was approaching things. It took what I was trying to figure out and slowly get setup to a whole different place much more efficiently. So . . . THANK YOU!

For anyone that cares to read, I wanted to do a short wall of text to share my experience with Heavy Questing so far.

Before I started the reconstruction based on this thread, I had just hit HMA, x3 of each HMA boosted good bulding, about 16-20 alchemists, and 1 hour collection housing. GB's I had in place already were Babel, LoA, CoA, Zeus, Obs, and I finished ToR while going over this thread and over it and over it before deciding to pull the trigger. I had completed a few events, had a full cherry garden, the king/queen/ruin set, a ww, and x1 sok. I thought I had done pretty good for myself. I was cranking out about 30-35 FP a day depending on when I could collect and GB's were climbing levels.

Then I decided to drink the Kool-Aid of this thread and jumped in with both feet. Over the last 5 weeks or so, I've been rebuilding to fit CR's process. This was not an easy decision to make as it mean making some hard choices and destroying (selling) days worth of my time and effort into some events and GB's. I also have a challenge, that nobody in my guild is doing this kind of strat so I'm on my own.

I had to start by selling off stuff to make room for more Alch's. It hurt a bit, but I sold off my king / queen statue / ruin set from the last event, sold my level 4 Babel, and my level 4 CoA, and I sold a few extra pieces of the cherry garden set I was using for an extra fp each day. I then pumped as many Alch's as I could and changed my housing to 8 hour town homes. This resulted in a lot more completed quests per day and which made the loss of those GB's a bit easier to stomach. I opted to keep ToR and the OBS because I want to. The OBS for guild help of course, and I like the gambling aspect of the ToR. It's sitting at level 3 and I couldn't bring myself to dump it too.

I then worked with a high level guildy to do a FP swap to get the BP's for CF. In the meantime, I aquired a full set of CdM prints and most of StM prints from mp/po and random FP swap threads within the guild. I burned all 5-fp and 10-fp packs on the swaps to get the CF prints. In the end, I bought the last two with diamonds because I was tired of waiting. I also worked a deal with 3 other players for trading PE goods for FP. I still owe two of them about a weeks worth of FP's but they took a leap of faith (non guildies) and gave me the goods up front to save FP on market trades. I had never considered trading goods for FP until i read it in this thread. I had no idea how I was going to amass the goods with little to no guild help with up trading. I think it worked out to like 35000 HMA goods to trade up to get the PE goods for the building . . . impossible otherwise. It took some conversations and convincing a couple players of the value, but I managed it. Inno tower and arc in colonial age don't seem as daunting now that I know goods to FP trading can work.

To get the CF built, I had to sell off my HMA goods buildings - another leap of faith that this process would produce enough goods. Today, as in about an hour ago, I have a shiny new CF! My guild was a bit stunned when I threw it up in the Stix to Brix thread. I ran thru all of my alchs - 52 - and the results were exactly as advertised. The new CF even at level 1 is HUGE. I didn't quite make back the same amount of goods as I would have doing the quests without CF + my goods buildings, but it was close. That gap will be overpassed once I level CF a bit. I also gained almost 200 medals . . . crazy since I'd been fighting for the top PvP spot for weeks at only 100 in a week. This works . . . and it works well.

I'm a few BP's short of StM still, but should have them by the time I have CF up to level 4-6. I already have the full set of prints for CdM also, but I'm going to wait on that until the other GB's are all 5+ or I hit CA. I'm not in a hurry for it, because the cherry garden set is producing 5FP / 5 goods per day. The CdM will need to be level 9 before it produces 5 FP a day for the same amount of tiles. Yes the cherry set can be plundered, but I have it timed for a period of day that I'm also able to collect it. Eventually the CdM will go in and the garden will be sold off.

I also am using the Lord's Manor which makes more pop and gold then x4 town homes so it's worth it to keep. I also have done my final (i hope) redesign for HMA and have managed to fit 56 alchemists along with space for all of CR's GB's. 56! I'm please as hell at that. Even with my non square map, I got 56! The map went into the dogleg on purpose - prior to me starting down this thread. My goal had always been to dump the GB's off into it. I think it works well. There are wasted tiles on the edge, but that will be remedied as I build it out in CA to make it square again. I've attached a pic of the foe planner layout - only thing I don't have up yet myself is the StM. Everything else is in place. Ignore the CdM and tiles in the middle, that is my staging area for moving things around. Here is the city planner tag as well C9CXY5YZR1

Anyway, thanks for reading, and thank you to CR and others that have helped convince me to take a chance and go down this road. It is certainly not for everyone, and it takes a shit ton of planning and commitment to get it up and running especially with guildies that don't get what you're trying to do. But here I am on day 1 of my CF, and I'm convinced. Cheers.
Glad to hear it. However you did not have to sell off your CoA as this is a HQS building however it is usually not the first one we build as we usually build CdM first in HMA and place the others after CdM is down. My recommendation to you now is to place your CdM and get a few levels on and then place it again either once your CF, LoA, CdM, HS and StM are level 5 or higher which possibly will be Colonial age as you will be there for a while collecting the other required GB and leveling them to level 10. Welcome aboard and ask CR or myself here and we will help

-cheers
 
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DeletedUser23444

Since you keep trying to change the focus to avoid admitting you're wrong about something, I'll simply add this: If you're a GvG fighter, then you do need to concentrate on the 3 good units in any age for your army. However, if you're supplying defense armies, you need to have a supply of all 5 units. Simply because the only way to slow down an attacking army in GvG is with a variety of defense armies, not a cut and paste unit lineup. And we were talking about noobs supplying DAs and siege armies, not fighting all-out in GvG.
No I'm not changing the focus at all, since in the guide itself it says "be an asset to a GvG or GE guild". That means that GE and GvG were both always a focus of any advice I give, since that is a stated objective of the strategy itself. So even If I never explicitly type those words in any reply, they are implied.