Cost-Neutral Trading

Discussion in 'Pending' started by ragray, Oct 30, 2014.

  1. ragray

    ragray Member

    Feb 26, 2013
    I am seeing players making grossly cost-unbalanced trades, especially in trading the later era goods. A 1:2 ratio is no longer appropriate when trading, for instance, steel for packaging.

    To make cost-neutral trades use the following table, which shows the 4 hr. cost to produce goods in each age as well as this cost divided by 800. (The cost per unit is what matters and it is the same for all production intervals. There is nothing special about the 4 hr. interval.)

    [TABLE="width: 350, align: left"]

    [TD="align: right"]4 hr cost[/TD]
    base amount

    Bronze Age
    [TD="align: right"]100[/TD]

    Iron Age
    [TD="align: right"]200[/TD]

    [TD="align: right"]400[/TD]

    [TD="align: right"]800[/TD]

    [TD="align: right"]1600[/TD]

    Colonial Age
    [TD="align: right"]2400[/TD]

    Industrial Age
    [TD="align: right"]3200[/TD]

    Progressive Era
    [TD="align: right"]4000[/TD]

    Modern Era
    [TD="align: right"]4800[/TD]

    Postmodern Era
    [TD="align: right"]6000[/TD]

    Contemporary Era
    [TD="align: right"]7200[/TD]

    Tomorrow Era
    [TD="align: right"]8400[/TD]

    For Modern Era the 4 hr cost is reckoned as 2400, plus 2400 for the required Colonial Age goods.
    For Postmodern Era the 4 hr cost is reckoned as 2800, plus 3200 for the required Industrial Age goods.
    For Contemporary Era the 4 hr cost is 3200, plus 4000.
    For Tomorrow Era the 4 hr cost is 3600, plus 4800 for the required Modern Era goods.

    Use the number shown as base amount when setting up your trade. For example, to trade fertilizer, an Industrial Age good, for explosives, a Progressive Era good, in the trading dialog I would initially enter 5 units of fertilizer and 4 units of explosives. It is important to notice how the base amounts are cross-applied to the goods of the OTHER age.

    Now you can scale up this trade to the number of units you desire by multiplying by a common factor. For example, taking 5 times this trade it becomes 25 fertilizer for 20 explosives. This is a cost-neutral trade.

    In trading between the Modern and the Postmodern Eras note that 6/7.5 = 12/15 = 4/5, so you can use 4 and 5 as your base amounts.

    And remember, there is nothing wrong with placing a cost unbalanced trade in order to make it more attractive. In fact, that is common business sense.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  2. Katwijk

    Katwijk Active Member

    Jul 22, 2013
    Your chart has some serious flaws, as you can see if you consider the following ratios that I've tucked into my guild social bar for easy reference within our guild.

    Like Value Trades - Please use triple digit quantities when you're just trying to balance your inventory.
    x:y Decimal Ages/Eras (First of the five goods)
    2:1 2.00 or 0.50 through LMA (Stone through Basalt)
    3:2 1.50 or 0.67 LMA to COL (Paper)
    4:3 1.33 or 0.75 COL to IND (Rubber)
    5:4 1.25 or 0.80 IND to PE (Asbestos)
    6:5 1.20 or 0.83 PE to ME (Ferroconcrete)
    5:4 1.25 or 0.80 ME to PME (Renewable Resources)
    6:5 1.20 or 0.83 PME to CE (Robots)
    Jump trades to CE
    9:5 1.80 or 0.55 PA to CE
    3:2 1.50 or 0.67 ME to CE calculates quantities for all equitable trades.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
  3. zeibal

    zeibal Member

    Mar 21, 2014
    Ragray's numbers look good, but the explanation for how to use them needs clarification. If you look at his example of trading fertilizer for explosives, he takes the base amount for the two involved ages and reverses them. So the 4 from the Industrial Age is used to determine the quantity of Explosives and the 5 from the Progressive Era is used to determine the equivalent quantity of fertilizer. This gives a ratio of 5/4 or 1.25 which is the correct ratio for trading Industrial Age goods for Progressive Era goods. In addition to the wildgunner web site listed above for a handy trading calculator here are two other sites which also calculate fair trade values. These calculators will produce the same results as the wildgunner calculator, just using a different interface. So use the calculator that you like the best.
    Site #1:
    Site #2: (some of this website is in Dutch, but the calculator instructions and goods descriptions are in English)
  4. ragray

    ragray Member

    Feb 26, 2013
    You are correct. Sorry if that example was not clear to some.

    I guess if you're poor with head math, using a calculator is the way to go, especially if you have in mind an exact quantity that you need. Personally, I would just scale up the trade until I got enough of what I wanted. The extra amount can't hurt you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have added the base amount for Contemporary Era now that I know what the 4 hr. cost is.
  5. ragray

    ragray Member

    Feb 26, 2013
    I have updated this article to include the magic number for the Tomorrow Era. It will be useful if Tomorrow Era has not been added to the calculator you use. (Also, calculators are for wimps.)
  6. rodamala

    rodamala New Member

    Aug 25, 2013

    I believe the cost used for Tomorrow is wrong... if I use the 4 hour production numbers listed on the foe wiki it would not be 12000 but 8400. Everything else seems right. Am I missing something?

    8400= 3600(base cost for 4hr TE run) + 2400 (base cost for 4hr ME run) + 2400 (base cost for 4hr CA run)

    a 4 hr production of ME goods costs
  7. ragray

    ragray Member

    Feb 26, 2013
    No, you are entirely correct. The 4 hour cost is indeed 3600. I confounded it with the 8 hour cost -- my bad. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. The proper TE base amount is 10.5, not 15, which makes quite a difference.

    This is another case where you can sometimes simplify the trade ratio. For example,
    CE/TE = 9/10.5 = 18/21 = 6/7.​
    PME/TE = 7.5/10.5 = 15/21 = 5/7​
    ME/TE = 6/10.5 = 12/21 = 4/7​

    Of course, these non-integral amounts do nothing to ease the burden of trading 'fairly'.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015