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[DeletedUser29726]

But, to answer your question directly, I believe Inno realized they went too far in making GE attractive early on, and then back-tracked a bit, and offered non-rewards like extra attempts. So, in this case, it was a reaction to making it too powerful, and was a way to retain game balance. That's my take on it, anyway, but what do I really know? It's just a guess.

I seem to recall from beta when the new rewards for expedition and GE4 came in the goals were to address complaints about the rewards for expedition, not that they were too powerful - in general rewards went up with the change, especially considering the 4th difficulty. The explanations we got from memory:

- Regular event buildings were replaced with the special expedition buildings so that someone who chose to develop their city through it would have a unique look. Sacred Sky Watch replaced Shrine of Knowledge (downgrade). Terrace Farm replaced bazaar (huge upgrade). Tribal Square and Fountain of Youth were just sidegrades on their previous counterparts.

- People really complained about receiving coins and supplies apparently. They were originally the only prizes that really aimed to dilute the good stuff. So inno decided to add attempts and motivation kits into the prizes to take the place of some of the coins/supplies. Some of these things were even more common at first launch on beta than they were in the final release. Noone was terribly impressed with them at the time and many begged to just have the coins/supplies back as something marginally useful. Now that motivation kits are instead aid kits they're at least half-decent... And I've gotten used to the extra attempts and sometimes when i've procrastinated til the last day I even hope for them.

- All FP rewards were converted into the 'direct-to-bar' treatment that inno had started to fall in love with. This was definitely a nerf, but overall the amount of FP per week went up so it was a change that was easier to swallow.

 

[Ta 152H]

I seem to recall from beta when the new rewards for expedition and GE4 came in the goals were to address complaints about the rewards for expedition, not that they were too powerful - in general rewards went up with the change, especially considering the 4th difficulty. The explanations we got from memory:

- Regular event buildings were replaced with the special expedition buildings so that someone who chose to develop their city through it would have a unique look. Sacred Sky Watch replaced Shrine of Knowledge (downgrade). Terrace Farm replaced bazaar (huge upgrade). Tribal Square and Fountain of Youth were just sidegrades on their previous counterparts.

- People really complained about receiving coins and supplies apparently. They were originally the only prizes that really aimed to dilute the good stuff. So inno decided to add attempts and motivation kits into the prizes to take the place of some of the coins/supplies. Some of these things were even more common at first launch on beta than they were in the final release. Noone was terribly impressed with them at the time and many begged to just have the coins/supplies back as something marginally useful. Now that motivation kits are instead aid kits they're at least half-decent... And I've gotten used to the extra attempts and sometimes when i've procrastinated til the last day I even hope for them.

- All FP rewards were converted into the 'direct-to-bar' treatment that inno had started to fall in love with. This was definitely a nerf, but overall the amount of FP per week went up so it was a change that was easier to swallow.

Yeah, but we know better, don't we? Inno never really likes to say they diluted something a lot, so they cover it with phrases making it seem it's a good thing.

Attempts are a non-reward. You win nothing. You win an attempt to also win nothing. So, although supplies and coins aren't particularly useful, what they replaced them with really didn't help much. I finish on Friday at the lastest now, so those extra attempts really aren't very helpful to me. I guess they are to some people, but I would think the L4 people are pretty intense players, and can do 64 battles in a time period that allows for 152.

But, the one thing you didn't mention is how they nerfed the SoK, which was the best thing available in GE. The SSW doesn't really cut it, being 50% bigger without improving the FP production. Also, didn't they have rogue hideouts available in the original one? I could be wrong on that, so don't quote me on it.

Either way, by removing the best thing available and replacing it something significantly worse (I think they should have increased pop considerable to compensate, but ...), it's kind of a kick. The Terrace Farms are nice though, but I think they were easier to get in jade relics early on, and in any case, I don't think as generally useful as SoKs.

Considering this happened when they added a significantly more difficult level, and I don't think it's unreasonable to state prizes got weaker overall, it's a little jarring. And yes, everything should go up when they made the change, because L4 is more difficult than all of the other three levels combined. Did the prizes move up that considerably? Not even close in my opinion.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

Funny how he understood the context, and you didn't.

Why do you add stuff like that to your posts?

Regardless you did mention GE4 in your first response

and also GE Level 4

Completely L4 GE often requires a considerable amount of time

...which was the the first response he first responded to with the attempts comment.

If I am supposed to spend more time online, why do I win extra attempts in GE

It doesn't make a difference anyway. His point is sound regarding adding attempts can diminish

reward being online

as it pertains to GE itself which was what the main point he was talking about.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

Yeah, but we know better, don't we? Inno never really likes to say they diluted something a lot, so they cover it with phrases making it seem it's a good thing.

Attempts are a non-reward. You win nothing. You win an attempt to also win nothing. So, although supplies and coins aren't particularly useful, what they replaced them with really didn't help much. I finish on Friday at the lastest now, so those extra attempts really aren't very helpful to me. I guess they are to some people, but I would think the L4 people are pretty intense players, and can do 64 battles in a time period that allows for 152.

But, the one thing you didn't mention is how they nerfed the SoK, which was the best thing available in GE. The SSW doesn't really cut it, being 50% bigger without improving the FP production. Also, didn't they have rogue hideouts available in the original one? I could be wrong on that, so don't quote me on it.

Either way, by removing the best thing available and replacing it something significantly worse (I think they should have increased pop considerable to compensate, but ...), it's kind of a kick. The Terrace Farms are nice though, but I think they were easier to get in jade relics early on, and in any case, I don't think as generally useful as SoKs.

Considering this happened when they added a significantly more difficult level, and I don't think it's unreasonable to state prizes got weaker overall, it's a little jarring. And yes, everything should go up when they made the change, because L4 is more difficult than all of the other three levels combined. Did the prizes move up that considerably? Not even close in my opinion.

They definitely moved up considerably. There was a *chance* to get a SoK from original expedition - but I don't think I got more than a couple in any given world in the time the original expedition and temple were around. I don't remember if rogue hideouts were available in original expedition or not. On the other hand, I do have 10 or so of each terrace farms, sacred sky watches, and fountains of youth on Y world that's been open for 6 months now. Sacred Sky Watch needed to be substantially worse than SoK in order to be made so much more common. And terrace farm for a single prize win is bloody amazing. Sure i'd rather 5 SoKs if i'm not maxed on them, but I'd rather one terrace farm than one SoK.

Overall GE moved from something with some nice prizes you could do weekly but wouldn't be missing out on much if you didn't to something that you could build your whole city strategy around.

 

[Ta 152H]

Why do you add stuff like that to your posts?

Regardless you did mention GE4 in your first response





...which was the the first response he first responded to with the attempts comment.



It doesn't make a difference anyway. His point is sound regarding adding attempts can diminish as it pertains to GE itself which was what the main point he was talking about.

Come on, you don't believe that, so why take an attitude? My remark he responded to about extra attempts being there from the beginning was ...

"But, to answer your question directly, I believe Inno realized they went too far in making GE attractive early on, and then back-tracked a bit, and offered non-rewards like extra attempts. So, in this case, it was a reaction to making it too powerful, and was a way to retain game balance. That's my take on it, anyway, but what do I really know? It's just a guess. "

The context is clear, Inno realized they went to far in making GE attractive early on. Got it? Was GE L4 part of it early on? No? Got it now? Good grief Charlie Brown.

The remarks that you obtusely took comments from, in a really poor way, are with regards to the time it takes, and why Inno has made some changes to the game. L4 is part of that. In no way did I mention L4 with extra attempts, and his response was pretty clearly not related to it as well.

"It is. Extra attempts have been there from the start." The start! Not when they added GE L4. THE START.

Good grief again. Why do you guys even try this stuff?

 

[Ta 152H]

They definitely moved up considerably. There was a *chance* to get a SoK from original expedition - but I don't think I got more than a couple in any given world in the time the original expedition and temple were around. I don't remember if rogue hideouts were available in original expedition or not. On the other hand, I do have 10 or so of each terrace farms, sacred sky watches, and fountains of youth on Y world that's been open for 6 months now. Sacred Sky Watch needed to be substantially worse than SoK in order to be made so much more common. And terrace farm for a single prize win is bloody amazing. Sure i'd rather 5 SoKs if i'm not maxed on them, but I'd rather one terrace farm than one SoK.

Overall GE moved from something with some nice prizes you could do weekly but wouldn't be missing out on much if you didn't to something that you could build your whole city strategy around.

Oh, I got a few SoKs, and I also got wishing wells, and I only had to do three levels. So, Fountains of Youth just changed their name, as the wells were available before it.

SSWs are common, and pretty useless to me. So, I'm not sure how that's a value add. Terrace Farms are about as common as SoKs were, maybe a little more because there is that 10% chance in L3, but they also aren't as good. I have some in inventory, I don't have any SoKs in inventory.

Nothing besides Terrace Farms even matter to me at this point, and I don't even place those right now (but expect I will at some point). But, I won another SoK from DC, and it surely went down.

I do see why some people, like you, think it's better, but whenever the best prize is worse, there's a risk it's worse for a lot of people. It is for me. For at least double the work.

Even so, it's still worth doing, because I like the FPs and diamonds, but there's not a single building I would place now, and only one I would ever place at any time. So, for me, it's worse.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

The context is clear, Inno realized they went to far in making GE attractive early on. Got it?

Insulting as ever. Do I got it? No, apparently I don't. Yeah, I know, you were there in the boardrooms when IG was putting it all together, that I get you think happens in your line of reasoning like with DC's, apparently only you have the inside word on such things. And do you not realize that comment of yourself you're quoting came after his original comment? After you had already mentioned GE4 twice? But yes, he said from the start when he should have said start of GE4, so what, you want to get hung up on a side point that's your problem. His main point stands nevertheless.

 

[Ta 152H]

Insulting as ever. Do I got it? No, apparently I don't. Yeah, I know, you were there in the boardrooms when IG was putting it all together, that I get you think happens in your line of reasoning like with DC's, apparently only you have the inside word on such things. And do you not realize that comment of yourself you're quoting came after his original comment? After you had already mentioned GE4 twice? But yes, he said from the start when he should have said start of GE4, so what, you want to get hung up on a side point that's your problem. His main point stands nevertheless.

No, it doesn't. What is his main point?

What is your main point, except you like being wrong all the time? My remarks about L4 were with respect to time spent, not with respect to added attempts. The added attempts were added later, and my remarks were referring to "Early on". When were were talking about added attempts, it was perfectly clear I was talking about GE in general, as I never mentioned L4.

His response was to that post. Got it now?

If you read my remarks, which you again misrepresent, you'd see I said it was my opinion, and several times I add a disclaimer I don't really know. If you don't believe them, then don't. Just don't misrepresent what I say because you can't win an argument without doing so.

Now if you want to say they didn't weaken it, like xiv, go for it. It's a worthy argument, because I do like Terrace Farms, and for some people, stuff is better, but you also have to do more than twice the work. But, both sides can be argued.

But, this other nonsense should even be below you, but still you persist in indulging it, knowing fully well you're misrepresenting what was said, and the context it was said in. It doesn't do anything for you.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

No, it doesn't. What is his main point?

What is your main point, except you like being wrong all the time? My remarks about L4 were with respect to time spent, not with respect to added attempts. The added attempts were added later, and my remarks were referring to "Early on". When were were talking about added attempts, it was perfectly clear I was talking about GE in general, as I never mentioned L4.

His response was to that post. Got it now?

If you read my remarks, which you again misrepresent, you'd see I said it was my opinion, and several times I add a disclaimer I don't really know. If you don't believe them, then don't. Just don't misrepresent what I say because you can't win an argument without doing so.

Now if you want to say they didn't weaken it, like xiv, go for it. It's a worthy argument, because I do like Terrace Farms, and for some people, stuff is better, but you also have to do more than twice the work. But, both sides can be argued.

But, this other nonsense should even be below you, but still you persist in indulging it, knowing fully well you're misrepresenting what was said, and the context it was said in. It doesn't do anything for you.

k, whatever, not going to put any more into non side issues, that are way off point anyway, who cares. The whole thing that began this mud you all dragged this into was my comment regarding players complaints on DC's production tasks, so whenever the day comes you all want to wrap your nonsense back around to the issue at hand let me know, till then you can mire yourselves in minutia for all I care.

 

[Agent327]

You're wrong, I was talking about GE, not just GE L4. Funny how he understood the context, and you didn't.

No you werent. The only thing you mentioned was GE lvl4. He understands what he wants to understand.

Also, nowhere in the post did I mention GE L4, I only mentioned GE.

Oh, how easy we forget even if it is in front of you and plain to see. Let me quote you.

I think you guys might be giving a very kind interpretation of what's going on with DC, and also GE Level 4 and similar things like incidences (I'll provide the context for that similarity). Naturally, your perspective is a player's, but we didn't make either, so it's instructive to view it from the people that made it.

Completely L4 GE often requires a considerable amount of time.

You are absolutely right. Nowhere did you mention GE lvl 4. I think Russian hackers got to your post.

 

[Ta 152H]

No you werent. The only thing you mentioned was GE lvl4. He understands what he wants to understand.



Oh, how easy we forget even if it is in front of you and plain to see. Let me quote you.





You are absolutely right. Nowhere did you mention GE lvl 4. I think Russian hackers got to your post.

Again, taken out of context.

I said nowhere in the post. You couldn't read that? Why did you leave it out?

Those remarks were about the time it took, and you already know that. Then you mentioned attempts, and then I added why I though they added attempts, as GE was too strong early on. So, no, you're wrong, you're dissembling. And you said FROM THE START. Was L4 part of it from the start? Was it? Well? No, it was added later on? Did you say from the start of L4? No? Were you wrong? Yes? Good. Now why don't you show the girl your city, and show us your real "game" name? Are you hiding something? Yes? For good reason, I'm sure.

 

[Ta 152H]

k, whatever, not going to put any more into non side issues, that are way off point anyway, who cares. The whole thing that began this mud you all dragged this into was my comment regarding players complaints on DC's production tasks, so whenever the day comes you all want to wrap your nonsense back around to the issue at hand let me know, till then you can mire yourselves in minutia for all I care.

No one drags you into mud, you seek it, and love it. Stop complaining about what you got yourself into.

I've already given my opinion on DC and the boring tasks. I'd like mini-games. You never commented on that, or what you'd like to see it changed to, unless I missed it, which is very possible.

 

[Agent327]

Again, taken out of context.

I said nowhere in the post. You couldn't read that? Why did you leave it out?

Those remarks were about the time it took, and you already know that. Then you mentioned attempts, and then I added why I though they added attempts, as GE was too strong early on. So, no, you're wrong, you're dissembling. And you said FROM THE START. Was L4 part of it from the start? Was it? Well? No, it was added later on? Did you say from the start of L4? No? Were you wrong? Yes? Good. Now why don't you show the girl your city, and show us your real "game" name? Are you hiding something? Yes? For good reason, I'm sure.

Nothing is taken out of context. You state you did not mention GE lvl 4 where in fact it was the only thing you actually mentioned. Right now you are twisting like an eel in a bucket full of snot to get out of this one, but in the end, you made a big booboo.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

No one drags you into mud, you seek it, and love it. Stop complaining about what you got yourself into.

I've already given my opinion on DC and the boring tasks. I'd like mini-games. You never commented on that, or what you'd like to see it changed to, unless I missed it, which is very possible.

The point is you can always bring it back around which is the better option. I would have thought you would agree with my original post as it's essentially saying why are people complaining about production tasks ad nauseum without consideration of what that space the blacksmiths are used for, you yourself has said the power of DC is great essentially, certainly space for blacksmiths are worth such power is it not? Some may say because it's boring, many don't say why they're complaining, they just say stuff like "OMG 56 5m productions WTH INNO" or some such silliness.

 

[Ta 152H]

Nothing is taken out of context. You state you did not mention GE lvl 4 where in fact it was the only thing you actually mentioned. Right now you are twisting like an eel in a bucket full of snot to get out of this one, but in the end, you made a big booboo.

Completely unsubstantiated, and deceptive.

The post you responded to, which is the only about additional attempts, never mentions L4 GE. You never mentioned it. You're just being mendacious, and I'm not going to let you off the hook. You said from the start. Was GE L4 from the start? Was it? No. You were wrong. Enjoy it. Own it. It's part of you.

 

[Ta 152H]

The point is you can always bring it back around which is the better option. I would have thought you would agree with my original post as it's essentially saying why are people complaining about production tasks ad nauseum without consideration of what that space the blacksmiths are used for, you yourself has said the power of DC is great essentially, certainly space for blacksmiths are worth such power is it not? Some may say because it's boring, many don't say why they're complaining, they just say stuff like "OMG 56 5m productions WTH INNO" or some such silliness.

Well, I still keep blacksmiths, so clearly I feel they are worth it.

I think there are two sides to it. One is, are the rewards justified by the difficulty. I think definitely. I think the majority of people do, but certainly not an overwhelming majority like I was expecting initially.

The other question, which I suppose people are complaining about, which I think has merit, is, could they make the daily "challenge" more interesting. I think they can, so I understand this complaint.

If they are complaining the difficulty is unwarranted, I think it IS silly, because if you don't like it, don't do it. Simple as that. People focus on the minutia too much, and let short term disappointments and frustration overpower their long term view. So, they get a couple of sucky prizes, and then get upset and need to vent. But if you take a broad view, over time, the rewards really add up, and are absolutely worth what you need to do, in my opinion.

 

[Agent327]

Completely unsubstantiated, and deceptive.

The post you responded to, which is the only about additional attempts, never mentions L4 GE. You never mentioned it. You're just being mendacious, and I'm not going to let you off the hook. You said from the start. Was GE L4 from the start? Was it? No. You were wrong. Enjoy it. Own it. It's part of you.

The post I responded to is two above it

https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?posts/202792

That hook already landed you in that bucket of snot. Keep turning. You only will make a bigger fool of yourself.

 

[Ta 152H]

The post I responded to is two above it

https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?posts/202792

That hook already landed you in that bucket of snot. Keep turning. You only will make a bigger fool of yourself.

Tsk, tsk, you're not even good at fabricating your stories, which you should be, considering you do it constantly.

https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com...challenges-feedback.20965/page-30#post-202792

This is your post. What lines are you responding to? The one you just said you did, in an attempt to deceive? No, the quotes are right there. You're wrong. You're lying. But, why bother, when I can prove it so easily? What you were responding to is right there. Did you think I wouldn't find that? Did you think you'd somehow slide that by?

No, you got caught, and exposed. Again. And your responses clearly indicate your intentions, "start" being the operative word. You lost. Again. You own it. Deal with it.

 

[Agent327]

nowhere in the post did I mention GE L4, I only mentioned GE.

Definition of nowhere
1 : not in or at any place

• The book is nowhere to be found.

2 : to no place

• I've gotten nowhere with my research.

• Arguing will get us nowhere.

3 : not at all : not to the least extent —usually used with near

• nowhere near as serious

• nowhere near enough

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nowhere

and also GE Level 4

Completely L4 GE often requires a considerable amount of time.

You are right. You mentioned it nowhere!

My sincere apologies.

 

[Ta 152H]

Definition of nowhere
1 : not in or at any place

• The book is nowhere to be found.

2 : to no place

• I've gotten nowhere with my research.

• Arguing will get us nowhere.

3 : not at all : not to the least extent —usually used with near

• nowhere near as serious

• nowhere near enough

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nowhere





You are right. You mentioned it nowhere!

My sincere apologies.

Are you really unable to understand the phrase "in the post"??? The "in the post" qualifies the remark, and you failed to bring up a single quote from that post. So, you're lying again by going to other ones.

So, let's sum it up. You've lied about what you were responding it, which was proven. You've weaseled your way into trying to state you were responding to a post you were not. You've left out "in the post" one time, and then ignored it the second time, and tried a long post while ignoring that. You've stated extra attempts were there from the start.

It's that hard for you to admit you were wrong? You go through this tantrum instead, just making yourself look worse? You need this, to grow up and be an adult. You were wrong. You own it. And I won't let you weasel away from it. You can't. It's right here. You've lost. Weaseling and lying won't change it, because it's right here. Dissembling won't either. You've lost.