Dividing goods by age in desktop game version

Imado

New Member
Hi ;

In the Mobile app, trade section - The goods are dividied by age , while that is not the same with the desktop game version !!

That is much easier when deciding about fair trades and such issues.

I suggest dividing the goods tab - when you create the offer - by age - on the desktop versions as well as the mobiles one.

What do you think ?
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
It already is (at least for the second half of your post)

Click on the goods themselves and problem solved
1F3EA211-A4E8-4096-8EA5-1A54043BC7A5.jpeg
 

Stephen Longshanks

Forum Moderator
I think they are already divided by age. As you can see from this screenshot, each age is differentiated by the color of the box the good avatar is in. And if you hover your cursor over any individual good, you will be shown what specific age it is from. Although once you've been playing for very long at all you will know that anyway.
upload_2019-9-11_8-34-37.png
And since they're already divided by age (even though it may not be to your liking), this proposal as written is pointless. You may want to repropose it to specify how you would like to see the goods divided, but I am going to move this thread to Forge Hall for further discussion.
 

Imado

New Member
Appreciate all what is said, but give me 2 minutes to discuss the following points please :

1st - I am talking about the look of the goods in the mobile version and the look in the desktop version - TOTALLY different, and on mobile, it is much easier to check what to trade for what , and review what to trade for - the rectangulars used in the mobile's app are organised really.

Why wait till I play long enough, and wait long enough to learn them,

2 - There is fair trade , in the mobile version it is "ticked" automatically. And in the desktop version, the system gives the right percentage upon chosing the targeted goods.

3 - The point I wrote was clear, and there is no need , at all to , say it is pointless ; because :

A - This is what a heavy game user is thinking to improve this game, and the moderators should listen to him as he does to others ..

B - Frankly, digging in the forum, I found that the user SNOWBELLE , suggested something like that and it was on 21/10/2018 !! But asked to ADD AGES to the goods AND colour the goods in the trade screen , other users also supported that request .... It is submitted to InnoGames too

============================

Why don't we have the same looks in the mobile & desktop versions? What prevents making things clearer ?

Thank you .
 
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vger

Active Member
As you can see from this screenshot, each age is differentiated by the color of the box the good avatar is in
Actually, no I can't see that. At least not very well. I played for months before I realized the colors were supposed to maybe be different. I looked for the border lines around the boxes, those I can sort of see.
To me, BA and LMA are the same color. HMA and LMA stands out as being slightly greener maybe? Colonial and progressive? Same color.
Color blind? Yes, of course I am.

Not really a big deal, since you learn which goods go with which age after a bit anyway. But the color differentiation does nothing for me, and I'm probably not the only one.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
Why don't we have the same looks in the mobile & desktop versions? What prevents making things clearer ?
because they’re designed for two seperate purposes.

Mobile games are designed knowing you have a smaller screen and need bigger details. Desktop games are designed knowing you have a mouse and bigger screen. You don’t need everything displayed on desktop because you can hover for extra info. You do for mobile because there is no hover.

You get used to whatever you use the most. If you’re primarily a desktop player (not just FoE) then hovering is native language to you. If you’re primarily a mobile user the swiping is your native language. Neither is “natural” outside of their environment and the game is designed with that in mind


B - Frankly, digging in the forum, I found that the user SNOWBELLE , suggested something like that and it was on 21/10/2018 !! But asked to ADD AGES to the goods AND colour the goods in the trade screen , other users also supported that request .... It is submitted to InnoGames too
1. I can’t find one proposed by snowbelle, only this which is dropdown menu not the main section: https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/add-ages-to-the-trade-screen-as-well-as-colorizing-goods-by-age.23909/#post-22063

(It’s the mods that put ideas up for voting once it’s gained support)

2. If that’s what you meant then the devs already have the idea so regardless of whether you get support you’ve already “won” - it’s already submitted.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
2 - There is fair trade , in the mobile version it is "ticked" automatically. And in the desktop version, the system gives the right percentage upon chosing the targeted goods.
That isn't "fair trade". Fair is what is been decided between two players that trade.

3 - The point I wrote was clear, and there is no need , at all to , say it is pointless ; because :

A - This is what a heavy game user is thinking to improve this game, and the moderators should listen to him as he does to others ..

B - Frankly, digging in the forum, I found that the user SNOWBELLE , suggested something like that and it was on 21/10/2018 !! But asked to ADD AGES to the goods AND colour the goods in the trade screen , other users also supported that request .... It is submitted to InnoGames too
A - A heavy game user would not have any problem adapting to the current system. You needing a long time learning about it disqualifies you as a heavy user.

B - That should tell you how important it is.

Why don't we have the same looks in the mobile & desktop versions? What prevents making things clearer ?
Most likely the devs. They work to make both platforms as equal as possible and this obviously has no priority at all. Suffesting it most definately is pointless.
 

Lauramiller

Well-Known Member
The game’s designers are in fact constantly making small changes to the UI without announcing them, at least on mobile. For a while, a couple of years ago, someone there was in love with using a black outline around white characters against a dark background in the inventory window. The characters looked puffy, like inflated balloon letters, and were very hard to read, even on a tablet. The designers would switch to this font, then get rid of it and then it would pop up someplace else, none of this with any explanation. So the possibility of the UI being tweaked to convey more information, or to convey information better, seems pretty plausible. Yeah, you don’t *need* it, but one of the tenets of information science and UI design is that redundancy reduces friction. It’s good design when the user doesn’t have to think about how to get the information they need and feels almost as if they’re absorbing it unconsciously.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
It’s good design when the user doesn’t have to think about how to get the information they need and feels almost as if they’re absorbing it unconsciously.
I think this is something the Desktop version did well initially back when Desktop games were more common then mobile games. Whatever you're used to will train your brain to think to those expectations. But with mobile being more and more prevalent that's going to effect perceptions when starting a new game.
 

lannister the rich

Active Member
That isn't "fair trade". Fair is what is been decided between two players that trade.
Just because a player posts a trade and another player accepts the trade does not make the trade fair. Willfully accepting a trade does not make the goods traded equal to another. Your only argument is that the game mechanics do not allow a trade ratio outside the boundaries of 0.5<>2.0. This can still easily be worked around to dupe inexperienced players. That would not be fair.

They work to make both platforms as equal as possible and this obviously has no priority at all. Suffesting it most definately is pointless.
The point of the proposal section is to provide feedback on things the devs may have overlooked. Suggesting anything that is not on the DNSL is not pointless. Suggesting that the devs know about this already without being a dev yourself is pointless.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
Suggesting that the devs know about this already without being a dev yourself is pointless.
If it's already been passed on in some form the devs would know.

I thought the desktop version color coded each section slightly to differentiate each age. Is this no longer how it works?
It does work that way in the inventory view in the market. Keyword slightly. Being split between columns also helps differentiate for that section. It’s the dropdown menu that has no distinction
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
Just because a player posts a trade and another player accepts the trade does not make the trade fair.
Then why would that player take the trade if he were to think the offer is not fair.

Your only argument is that the game mechanics do not allow a trade ratio outside the boundaries of 0.5<>2.0.
Game mechanics allow you to trade 10 wine for 20 Mars Microbes. That is supposed to be fair?

This can still easily be worked around to dupe inexperienced players. That would not be fair.
Inexperienced players have never heard of fair ttrade. It is a player invention.

The point of the proposal section is to provide feedback on things the devs may have overlooked.
I think they have feedback threads for that.

Suggesting anything that is not on the DNSL is not pointless.
It is when it has already been submitted

Suggesting that the devs know about this already without being a dev yourself is pointless.
So you question the system?:eek:
 

lannister the rich

Active Member
Then why would that player take the trade if he were to think the offer is not fair.
Need or lack of knowledge. Doesn’t make the trade fair.

Game mechanics allow you to trade 10 wine for 20 Mars Microbes. That is supposed to be fair?
That is literally what I am arguing. You should read more or get better glasses.

Inexperienced players have never heard of fair ttrade. It is a player invention.
Fair trade is literally part of the game. There is a check box to make a trade automatically be 2:1, 1:1, 1:2 depending on the ages of goods being traded. This is what the game considers fair. An inexperienced player would not know any better, therefore trading 1 rope for 2 lumber would seem fair to this person who does not know better. The average players use the player created fair trade calculators to make more equal ratios. However, fair trade is a game mechanic, that’s why there is a button for it.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
Need or lack of knowledge. Doesn’t make the trade fair.
Neither does a game mechanic.

That is literally what I am arguing. You should read more or get better glasses.
I thought it was my argument :confused:

Fair trade is literally part of the game. There is a check box to make a trade automatically be 2:1, 1:1, 1:2 depending on the ages of goods being traded. This is what the game considers fair. An inexperienced player would not know any better, therefore trading 1 rope for 2 lumber would seem fair to this person who does not know better. The average players use the player created fair trade calculators to make more equal ratios. However, fair trade is a game mechanic, that’s why there is a button for it.
You really are funny. Fair trade is no part of the game at all. That checkbox is on the app, not on the PC and this is after all a PC game. Even on the app it wasn't there at the start, but was introduced later. Fair trade is a player invention. Different language servers have different player rules about fair trade. Inno never made any statement on that. If 2:1, 1:1, 1:2 was depending on the ages of goods being traded you could not trade Iron to Mars. Only reason it is there is that Inno does not want easy 1:1000 trades.

I agree. Some accept a trade they know is unfair because they want or need the goods badly enough to do so, or because they are too impatient. This makes a trade acceptably unfair, not fair.
Why is it unfair if you need to pay more if you badly need something? You put yourself in that position as a result of bad good management. Even so, if you put up trades yourself with a small profit for the person taking those you could still get what you need.
 

Stephen Longshanks

Forum Moderator
Just because a player posts a trade and another player accepts the trade does not make the trade fair.
I agree. Some accept a trade they know is unfair because they want or need the goods badly enough to do so, or because they are too impatient. This makes a trade acceptably unfair, not fair.
Objectively, you are correct. Subjectively, however, the fairness of any particular trade lies in the perspective of the traders. I have traded PE goods at 2:1 for Bronze/Iron/whatever goods and considered the trades completely fair. On the other hand, I will bypass trades of same age goods if the good I'm required to provide is one that I am low on. And this game is all about subjectivity, because every player enjoys it in a slightly different manner.
Fair trade is literally part of the game. There is a check box to make a trade automatically be 2:1, 1:1, 1:2 depending on the ages of goods being traded.
That checkbox does not exist on PC, only on mobile. And while amounts will be automatically filled in on PC under certain circumstances, that does not equate to "fair". Mainly because it won't differentiate between goods one era apart and goods several eras apart. So both the mechanism (PC) and checkbox (mobile) are erroneously labeled or thought of as fair, when they really have nothing to do with fair.