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Do I need to keep up the arms race?

DeletedUser29766

I am in the Iron Age and want to know if I need to keep building new military units all the time and updating them?
Can I just negotiate everything to get land or will there be times I want to attack. It seems just about as easy to trade as it is to constantly build armies - plus the battles aren't really that fun.
Should I be retiring my slingers (i.e.) and replacing them with archers or can I just keep enough units to defend my city?
Or should I be building more units when they unlock in the game? There are a lot of units unlocking as I am entering the middle ages and I just want to know how I should be looking at this.
TIA
 

DeletedUser29766

Always upgrade.
so at end of iron age for example - how many military buildings should I have?
I have a slinger, archer, light, and a heavy unit building. Drop the slinger?
Like when I get to legionaire - make that my heavy unit? Or should I be adding more buildings and keeping some older ones?
I saw a faq for strength of units but not for how many I should have and when.
Thanks!
 

DeletedUser

These are decisions that you need to making for yourself. You can play either way, mostly a fighter, or mostly what we refer to as a farmer. You can negotiate most things, but it is always good to be able to fight. And you should at least have current era troops to use as city defense. The best thing for you would be to get in a good guild that likes to teach and help newer players.
 

DeletedUser9930

No, you do not have to enter the arms race, but, to avoid doing so, you must commit yourself wholeheartedly to goods production or supply and coin, when you run low. I had a guildmate (he now has about 9 million points) who did this. In the Modern Era {I think, but it could've been Postmodern}, he had about two dozen goods factories! Why so many? Because it's costly to negotiate one's way through the map and, now, Guild Expeditions. Since you will be attacked by would-be plunderers, it is crucial that you collect on time, which may mean that you'll have to curtail production
 

DeletedUser28670

I am in the Iron Age and want to know if I need to keep building new military units all the time and updating them?
Can I just negotiate everything to get land or will there be times I want to attack. It seems just about as easy to trade as it is to constantly build armies - plus the battles aren't really that fun.
Should I be retiring my slingers (i.e.) and replacing them with archers or can I just keep enough units to defend my city?
Or should I be building more units when they unlock in the game? There are a lot of units unlocking as I am entering the middle ages and I just want to know how I should be looking at this.
TIA
Just a small tip. This is going a bit off track but when I was in IA, I negotiated all battles. However, when I was attacked the hood, one thing was evident. There were a lot of people with 2 spear defences. So, I used a 8 ballista attack army and Auto Attacked. Note, do not use Auto Attack too much. This cut down on my attack time and I could do about 7k battle points per day. If you have a lot of 2 spear defences, you use that. Just a tip :)
 

DeletedUser27889

In my second city I realized due to guild needs I was going to need far more goods than military. So I focused on goods.

When you do this you can use unattached troops you win negotiating in GE as your city defense and also on the Cmap.
Negotiating the Cmap gets ridiculously (IMHO) expensive later on, in my INA city it's about 300 goods per sector so I don't think it's worth it.

If you do go this route getting rogue hideouts and a traz helps a lot to keep you in the game battle wise.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
My persoa; experience. I didn't fight much at all through my first year. Massive production of Goods carried me through the Continent and i saved a bundle on space and troop costs.

Why i started fighting and haven't stopped:

GvG is the most fun I have in this game.
Mastering the PvP towers netted me 2K a week Medals.
Counterpunching plunderers in the mouth is extremely satisfying and usually gets them off your back,
Plundering can be very profitable.
GE came along and I'm a lousy negotiator.
Negotiatng the Continent gets pretty expensive after a while.

This is just my expereince, you can have a wonderful time in this game without fighting.

But for me it's more fun to drop the gloves and slug it out.
 

DeletedUser29862

I am in the Iron Age and want to know if I need to keep building new military units all the time and updating them?
Can I just negotiate everything to get land or will there be times I want to attack. It seems just about as easy to trade as it is to constantly build armies - plus the battles aren't really that fun.
Should I be retiring my slingers (i.e.) and replacing them with archers or can I just keep enough units to defend my city?
Or should I be building more units when they unlock in the game? There are a lot of units unlocking as I am entering the middle ages and I just want to know how I should be looking at this.
TIA
At each stage comes with new army units.. Remaining with old army units will weaken your defense as a result your empire and army will be vurnelable to other players. You can sell your old army to have enough population for new army or you can build more residential house to increase population for new army
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
Upgrading your troops for the purpose of having a credible city defense is an almost useless exercise.

I say that because it is MUCH easier to have significant boosts to Attack than it is for significant boosts to Defense. Chances are pretty good that there will be players in your Neighborhood which are an Age, possibly two (and occasionally, though rarely- thanks to Inno's new Neighborhood Assignment Algorithm- more), with troops of that advanced Age and quite possibly very high ATT boosts, so there's no way that you can mount a credible active defense against those types of players. All you can do is set your productions so as to give you the highest chance to be there when they are ready to be collected.

As far as GE or fighting for sectors on the regular map, those are much more achievable goals to set. One can generally fight their way through level one and two of GE with decent attack boosts, with only the multiple wave battles near the end of level two offering any sort of challenge. Yes, there are some provinces on the map that have highly-boosted troops, but most do not. Negotiate for the ones you can't defeat. And you'd best believe that all that gets MUCH easier once you have an Alcatraz and a Rogue Hideout (or two).
 

DeletedUser29766

Thanks for the input, all. Makes more sense now.
On a side note: I am banking a little over 3 times the gold as I am supplies. More production and I can't keep enough population and more population and I can't keep them happy.
Is that a pretty typical ratio?
 

DeletedUser

It's always a balancing act, although coins and supplies are not as much a problem as you advance. A Great Building that will help is the Lighthouse of Alexandria, which gives a boost to supply production.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
Upgrading your troops for the purpose of having a credible city defense is an almost useless exercise.

I say that because it is MUCH easier to have significant boosts to Attack than it is for significant boosts to Defense.

Completely disagreed. It's always a good idea to mount your best possible defense, it dissuades casual attackers and doesn't cost anything except 8 troops which you can easily get from GE.

Also disagree about defensive boosts. Excepp for the 3/2 advantage in GBs there are many more defensive boost sources more readily aavailable in quantity then there are offensive boosts, see SJS's recent post Attack/Defense Boosts and Their Sources,in the Forge Hall. Including the ultimate defense from the Tavern.

Most just aren't that useful against a serious attacker. But anything less then your best possible defense just invites more attacks.
 

DeletedUser28670

Thanks for the input, all. Makes more sense now.
On a side note: I am banking a little over 3 times the gold as I am supplies. More production and I can't keep enough population and more population and I can't keep them happy.
Is that a pretty typical ratio?
Hope you'd okay with telling us- how much gold & supplies do you have? I had about 800 k of each when I was in IA, but I did camp a very long time with a good Alexandria.
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
I would never tell a player to put up less than the best defense he possibly can.

What I would tell him is that it will be of next to no use in most circumstances, save, as you pointed out, to act as a deterrent against players looking for easy wins.

Have you noticed that, in pretty much every case, if an Event Reward set offers a defensive boost, it offers an offensive one as well? All that does is to retain the status quo; it does nothing to restore balance.
 

DeletedUser9930

I think we're getting away from the original question, Can one avoid entering the arms race? The answer is yes! Remember that mingmen said, "the battles aren't really that fun."

If one collects on time and leaves only garbage, i.e., some coin or supply scraps, for the thieves, one need have no defense. One can use space that most allocate to military buildings --- barracks, GBs, watchfires, etc. --- to housing and production, erecting military encampments only when one desires to appease Gen'l Grivas.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
I would never tell a player to put up less than the best defense he possibly can.

What I would tell him is that it will be of next to no use in most circumstances, save, as you pointed out, to act as a deterrent against players looking for easy wins.

Have you noticed that, in pretty much every case, if an Event Reward set offers a defensive boost, it offers an offensive one as well? All that does is to retain the status quo; it does nothing to restore balance.

I think you do a disservice to inexperienced players with your oft repeated advise and viewpoint that gives the impression that defenfing is near worthless.

No defence can hold against a determined attacker. But you make it sound as though because there are such out there that there's no point in trying to take easy and reasonable steps to mitigate attack and plunder. In addition you've been saying that the offense is getting more then the defence, and that is just plain wrong.

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'next to no use in most circumstances' Can you enumerate 'most' circumstances and describe them?

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I'd submit that to the average player in the average hood that they are more exposed to casual attacks that can be deterred by a good defense then any other problem.

I freely admit that trying to figure out if an enemy has been deterred is difficult because deterrence is an effect that takes place in the enemy commander's mind.

The best we can do is judge based on our experience and the limited evidence of our PvP Towers.

My startup is 4 months old, same hood for the last 4 weeks, EMA and IA. Lots of aggro players in the lower Eras. I get attacked frequently, most players hit surrender, I run 8 EMA troops with a 5% nppst from the kqr set. 5 attackers in 4 weeks carried through the attack, 1 won, none of those attacked again.

Week after week in the PvP towers there are a half dozen people who have dozens of fights 2 of whom attack me daily. They hit surrender and move on. They score low, they are beating up cruddy defenses. I keep winning the Tower with half the fights because I'm fighting in GE, they obviously don't.

I haven't been attacked in my main CE city in 4+ weeks. 8 current Era troops defending, 14$ biist, kqr set, cherry set, helicopte base.. Same thing in the towers though, lots of attackers scoring few points per attack,

That has held true for my main city for 2 years, most of that time I haven't eun any defensive boost. I don't get attacked much, but there are always aggro players who are doing a lot of attacks for a low average of points in the PvP towers.

Take a look at your PvP Towers, you can pick out the folk who are beating up the wimpy defenses they are the ones with lots of fights but a low score per fight. Are they attacking you as well?

So please quit hurting inexperienced players by dissuading them from defending the best they can.

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'In most every case' How many sets have there been? 3? 1 was pure defense, 1 was balanced between defence and offence. 1 gave a higher defence. What's your point?

What 'balance'? There's more defensive boosts available then offensive boosts. Go read SJS thread. Biggest Special Building boost available is defensive. Highest boost per tile is defensive. More Special Buildings give defensive boosts. Best Tavern boost is Defensive. Ritual Flames from GE.

INNO puts out much more defense despite the fact that it;s obvious most players want to attack and ignore the defence.
 

DeletedUser30312

Counterpunching plunderers in the mouth is extremely satisfying and usually gets them off your back,

I seldom get plundered, but I generally avoid buildings that can't be motivated, and the rest usually get aided. I nearly always make a point to counter any attacks on my city, successful or not, but some aggressive players take a while to get clued in. It amuses me when I see people attack me with wounded and/or defense units or with less than 8 units. It's also amusing when a regular attacker doesn't know or bother to set up a defense and I counter against a pair of spearfighters and plunder as an object lesson. I haven't been attacked in the current hood for maybe 3 weeks now, so people must be starting to fear me.

I always put up as strong a defense as I can muster because of the deterrence factor. Some people are smart enough not to risk their units, while others do so out of respect. And besides, I regularly attack people with weak defenses, and experienced PvPers would probably do the same to me if I didn't bother with a defense. I don't worry too much if people beat my defense and get tower points, because I'll just turn around and hit them for tower points as well unless they have a significant defense I can't break through. It's only when they use the 7 rogue + heavy attack and have too much defense for me to break through that I get irritated.
 

DeletedUser26154

Let me set the record straight.

28693780489bf97afc645387f880078a.png

I am in the Iron Age and want to know if I need to keep building new military units all the time and updating them?

Overall, yes.
You want to constantly get better and more advanced.
You don't need to build and produce every kind of barracks and unit.

Can I just negotiate everything to get land or will there be times I want to attack.

You'll always be short on goods if you negotiate your way through everything.
I know this from experience and I'm in Arctic Future, the second to last Era.
You won't be able to generate the goods you'll need to negotiate everything.

You want to be able to fight your way though most if not all of the Continent Map.

Should I be retiring my slingers

Always upgrade every time you progress to the next age or era.
Everything else around you will.

Delete old units you'll never use.
Keep maybe 4 of each for GvG purposes, but no need to keep entire armies from Eras you progressed past.
That's like our Modern Military keeping Musketeers around "Just in case".
Get rid of them.

[Some people keep older units for GvG, but that has nothing to do with this topic.]

Or should I be building more units when they unlock in the game?

No, you don't have to build every unit when it's available.
But you want a military that is as best as possible.

There are a lot of units unlocking as I am entering the middle ages and I just want to know how I should be looking at this.

Every unit has a role in combat and a job to do.
Certain units do better against other units.
Look for the attack and defense bonus.

2027484bcfb6bfa6e536ae6d524eda39.png

Use your and their Bonuses to help you decide what fighting units to bring to battle.
 
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