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Do something about Rogue armies

  • Thread starter DeletedUser37869
  • Start date

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
Inno doesn't see this as "abuse", else they would implement what is the easiest and most obvious 'fix': replace the city defender AI with the Continent Map AI. On the Continent, AI units do not automatically attack Rogues, which makes the rote "1 real unit + 7 Rogues" strategery potentially problematic.

So what can you do if you're being attacked and defeated by "1+7"?

Well, if you're not being Plundered, what have you lost? You get nothing for a successful defense, and you lose nothing for an unsuccessful one. If a player is just going for Tower Points, so be it.

If you are being Plundered, there's only two solutions of which I am aware:

1) Set your various Productions so as to give you the greatest chance of being there when they're done- "Collect On Time"

2) See Solution #1

Actually, #2 should be "Build a City which does not depend on structures which can be Plundered for various Production needs". There are several people here who, if they've not achieved that, are well on their way to doing so.

What does >NOT< work?

Setting a Defensive army.

Well, that's not entirely true. I do know of one player on one server that had a Defensive Army that defeated all attackers. And all he had to do to achieve that was to take his defense to >>over 800%<<. Easy as falling off a log and twice as fast.

I have one city which has a roughly 410% defense. I allocated a good deal of space to the various structures which give me that boost, space that could be used to give more FPs, more Goods, etc. And, for all the good it does, I might as well remove the defense and replace them with FP- and Goods-producers. One player with a 250% offensive boost using same-Age units defeats me every single time he attacks, using "1+7". Sorry, but that should not happen. The problem is that, along with the terrible defensive AI, it's difficult to boost your Offensive rating while defending. All of those Watchfires and Ritual Flames do nothing to boost your offense while defending. There needs to be an offensive defense structure that boosts only the offense for defending units.
 

tuckerkao

Active Member
Maybe we could get a ritual flame upgrade or WF level 3 that gives that? Worth a proposal at the very least.
This is why Colonial Champion is the best horse-unit of all era against the same age units, no event buildings are there to boost the defense of the attacking armies, but I can have tons of Contestants' Estates to bring up the attacks of my outgoing Colonial Champions to even higher than their defense values.

Industrial Champion is nearly useless because you cannot specifically boost its defense value while attacking using any event buildings other than the 4 military GBs. Can you ever have an outgoing Industrial Champion with the ratio of attacking: 40, defense: 50? Never. Can you have an outgoing Colonial Champion with the ratio of attacking: 32, defense: 40? Yes. This is the flaw of the game at the current stage of the game making certain eras much easier than others when relating to the Guild Expeditions.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
If you are being Plundered, there's only two solutions of which I am aware:
Just like like having a DA, Collect On Time is not 100% effective.

You forgot one completely effective method, Tavern Shield, and dismissed the other one Plunder proof cities which you seem to think is difficult.

You got Collect On Time backwards, see my sig. Its not be on time to collect, it's set your collection time to when you know you'll be on.
 
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Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
That was wrong four years ago the first time you said it, and it's still wrong.

PLEASE QUIT GIVING BAD ADVICE.
I should have been more clear in what I said. I did not intend to advise never setting a defensive army, though I can well see why what I wrote would give one that impression. What I should have said was something along the lines of, "Don't count on a defensive army to stop very many attackers from defeating you and having the option to plunder."

I cannot recall the last time my 400%+ defense city was defeated by an attacker who used anything other than 1+7. That >should< tell you something.

When the only consistently effective city defense requires over 500% boost in order to defeat 1+7, with all the tradeoffs that a player must make, in terms of space and resources, even if it isn't an "exploit", it is a "flaw". And a major one.

No, there's no "downside" to placing your most advanced troops and trying different combinations in your defensive army...except for that whole "You'll almost certainly, 99%+ of the time, lose" thing. But hey,,,you get to keep the defensive units......even if you lose the forge points or the goods.

I will concede that I forgot the City Shield. I never use it, so its existence slipped my mind.

Your "collect on time" argument is rather a matter of semantics. "Collect on Time", to me, means to set your productions so as to give you the best chance of being there to collect them rather than someone else getting them. Your definition might be somewhat different, but the general point is, I'd venture, the same. The player collects rather than the enemy collects.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
Your "collect on time" argument is rather a matter of semantics. "Collect on Time", to me, means to set your productions so as to give you the best chance of being there to collect them rather than someone else getting them. Your definition might be somewhat different, but the general point is, I'd venture, the same. The player collects rather than the enemy collects.
Yeah, the difference is subtle, but the effect profound.

One is "I set my time for 4 hours, hope I'll be back on then."

The other is I'll be back on for 3 hours in 7 hours. I should set production for 8 hours."

One the game drives you, the other you drive the game.

And sorry for yelling,I deleted that part of the post, thanks for your clarification.
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the difference is subtle, but the effect profound.

One is "I set my time for 4 hours, hope I'll be back on then."

The other is I'll be back on for 3 hours in 7 hours. I should set production for 8 hours."

One the game drives you, the other you drive the game.

And sorry for yelling,I deleted that part of the post, thanks for your clarification.

You and I will never see eye-to-eye on this, even had I been clear in what I meant. But it doesn't mean that I do not respect you or your opinion.
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
Just because you lack imagination doesn't mean you're right. I have used 7 Rogues + 1 Unit in the past and lost, and so have other players. It's all about your defense... your unit choices, varying them once in a while, and building up your defensive bonus stats. Sure... if you neglect those things, you're basically a sitting duck... but I have watched replays of 7+1 lose against me. It may be very effective, but it's not perfect and without any weakness whatsoever. Suggestion: get better at the game -- maybe even to the point where you don't care if you're defeated or not.
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
Just because you lack imagination doesn't mean you're right. I have used 7 Rogues + 1 Unit in the past and lost, and so have other players. It's all about your defense... your unit choices, varying them once in a while, and building up your defensive bonus stats. Sure... if you neglect those things, you're basically a sitting duck... but I have watched replays of 7+1 lose against me. It may be very effective, but it's not perfect and without any weakness whatsoever. Suggestion: get better at the game -- maybe even to the point where you don't care if you're defeated or not.
If someone loses with the 1+7 'strategy', you should be lecturing them to "get better at the game", not me.
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
If someone loses with the 1+7 'strategy', you should be lecturing them to "get better at the game", not me.
Why would I do that? They lost!!! I don't owe them any lecture about how to get better at attacking me, nor would I find it appealing to do so! Also, why do you assume I'm lecturing you? I was talking to the original poster.

Regarding lack of imagination:
There is no defense that I have found that can be made to defend a home city against these armies.
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
If the comments were not directed at me, then you have my apology. I guess it had to do with the sequence of posts; your post came directly after mine.
 
I'm a newbie... only been playing a month. Been attacked successfully twice. Once before I learned to set a defending army (the default 2 guys lost), and once with my best army defending and 27% defense bonus but lost to the 1+7 rogue army. I've never been plundered, however. What do you lose when plundered? Your accumulated coins and supplies? Or just the stuff that hasn't been collected from buildings? I assume Forge Points on the bar can be taken as well.
 

Emberguard

Senior Ingame Moderator
@Gotz von Berlichingen only buildings in the main city can be plundered. It’s one production per 24 hrs per player providing its:

(1) not motivated
(2) not All Ages (auto ages up. Official Wiki labels them as “random production building”)
(3) it’s a finished collectable production (has a road if it needs a road)
(4) not a GB, military, town hall or other plunderproof building like the Crows Nest
 

DeletedUser36572

Thanks. So, if I don't leave any buildings producing there will be no plundering?
As Emberguard mentioned:

The attacking player can attack you once every 24 hours.
If successful, they can plunder you once in the following 24 hours.

Strictly for informational purposes, and because in my experience it seems to confuse a lot of players ... That does not mean that an attacking player cannot plunder you twice within a 24 hour period.

Just In Case

.