DeletedUser8152
There is far less point farming now than there used to be, as far as I can tell.
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DeletedUser26965
Perhaps but I mean on the individuals points. If one can still gain the same benefit even with one method closed then I fail to see the point of the change. Unless of course you're saying they just wanted less people doing it which again tells me they see it as a negative. Really all this has done has given the advantage to non land holders to gain points for towers as it would be cost prohibitive for land holders to do the same. So basically land holders are not allowed to gain points for towers through GvG but non land holders are. Perhaps this is innos way of giving non land holders something, land holders get guild power, non land holders get tower points. Of course they never stated as much but if this is the way of it perhaps they should have.
DeletedUser8152
I think it is considerably harder now to gain the same benefit. Like I pointed out, you either have to sacrifice your own troops, or else deal with fighting another guild. It used to be that you could easily farm NPC sectors for no troop cost.
DeletedUser26965
I'm not talking about if it's harder, it very well may be, I'm wondering for any given individual, not a land holder, attacking AA numerous times a day, if that kind of player has lost anything point wise with the change.
DeletedUser8152
I should think so. Before they could repeatedly attack 8 unboosted champions, leading to maximum points for little loss of troops. Now they have to attack an occupied sector with a boost, a mix of various lower-value troops, and the hassle of having their siege killed. I can't imagine they can earn the same amount of points in the same amount of time.
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DeletedUser26965
I thought you could only release sectors so many times a day so I thought maybe a max of 40 battles a day?
Not always.
Sure sometimes, depends.
You can kill of other peoples sieges before and after the change couldn't you?
As it is now there is no limit on sieges per day in AA, the sector may or may not have any boost which won't matter much anyway if the persons boost is high enough to deal with it, there's a potential of 80 AF battles per siege. 5 Sieges a day = 400 battles for the cost of 25 medals and 8 Spearfighters per siege. AA first place is 4500 medals. Seems like a rather lucrative enterprise still for the battle point towers.
DeletedUser8152
4 releases per person, but it's easy enough to get someone else to help.
Regarding farming NPCs, I can't say I've seen any of that on AA, myself.
Regarding the troops, are you saying that you all fill up your LZ sectors with AF champions? I'd suggest not doing that
Yes but it was not hard before to find a sector to farm where there were either no neighbors or only friendly neighbors. That is much harder now.
In practice, there's no limit on sieges per day, so the difference between endless champ sieges and endless mixed troop sieges is pretty significant in terms of points.
DeletedUser26965
Seems impossible with 4 releases per person even with friends. We have to think what's practical. Of course without any real data we're just spitballin. It wouldn't really be endless mixed troop sieges either because the cost of medals would eventually exceed the reward. As it is now the reality is 400 battles with mixed troops is easy, cheap, can be done by only one person everyday.
wolfhoundtoo
Well-Known Member
Except we're not just 'spit balling'. Ask around in game and you'll likely find point farmers who aren't thrilled with the changes that occurred. As for finding sufficient help to release sectors that wasn't that hard if you had a fairly large guild and it had players at least being active on a daily basis. You simply send out message requests (and post in guild chat) to get people to release certain sectors for you. The amount of point farming I've seen on "F" has reduced dramatically (most especially the amount done by several players in my guild decreased as well after the rule change).
DeletedUser8152
I think the point is though that the siege unit cost is still negligible on the AA map (where you can use 8 spears).
ITown
Well-Known Member
true. and an iron age player in the defending guild can autobattle to kill the siege with no losses, too!
DeletedUser26154
Pvp has always been about farming the currency that is used in PvP.
That's one of the aspects of MMOs that keeps players busy.
In FoE the Pvp currency are medals, mainly used for expansions and PvP expenses.
Pvpers farm the various types of game currency and prestige.
Farmers grow vegetables and gourds.
DeletedUser26965
Is a level 25 traz considered considerable by you for this?
ITown
Well-Known Member
Well, that's double the level I have, so I suppose so, yes.
DeletedUser26154
DeletedUser16249
I thought that "farming" was where a guild would take a sector, wait for recalc, drop it and then retake it. Over and over and over again. Attacking another guilds' sectors isn't "farming points" in my opinion. It's used to annoy the pants off the guild that owns currently holds that land.
DeletedUser26965
It's just that I've seen much higher and wasn't sure what "considerable" meant in this context. So 23 troops a day.
It is/was, it's just not as effective as it used to be because inno made changes to make it not as attractive to do. And that's the crux of the matter here. They made it so the incentive for gaining points with that method was not as profitable or as easy as it once was.
See, this is my position and I'm more than willing to accept I may be off on the matter as long as we're actually discussing the issue itself and not anything else, I can really care less about a player doing whatever for whatever reason, my focus is on innos position. I believe based on what inno has said that GvG was never intended to be an area where it was possible to farm points. As a matter of just reading their own changelogs it's rather clear to me they don't want any point farming anywhere, they want GvG to be GvG not "farm points for me". They want players to play the game as intended, join a guild, gain GvG territory and naturally build battle points along the way, not try to figure out ways to gain points unnaturally.
People can look at inno's positions below, which is what I'm concerned with, and make up their own minds, I've made up mind but people are of course free to have their own opinions. And while I don't see any explicit address that says something to the effect of my position is absolute I think what we do have available to us below supports my position. I don't see anything anywhere that says point farming is what is intended. The only time I heard it was acceptable was when I contacted support on the matter and the lead in-game mod said it was "a completely acceptable practice". That's the first time I've heard/read anything to that effect and to me contradicts the positions below and those positions when taken as a whole.
March 22, 2013 - Changelog 0.29
Change to battle points
Only the winner of a battle will now receive points. This change is being made in order to prevent possible exploitation of losing battles to "farm" for points.
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/changelog-0-29.3033/
Feb 17, 2014 - Changelog 1.20
Guild vs. Guild Introduced
Your goal is to expand your guild's territory and hold on to it, to level up your guild and gain bonuses and glory for all its members.
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/change-log-1-20-guild-vs-guild.5612/
May 30, 2014 - Changelog 1.27
To combat GvG hopping, a new system has been implemented to stop players from rejoining a guild they have left for 7 days.
From now on, one player can grant freedom to a sector only 4 times per day. This solution has been implemented to prevent abuses that might happen when not-exactly-trusted guild member is accidentally given "trusted" right. The limit resets at daily calculation.
Siege army unit cost has been removed. The requirement to field a siege army with full units was a bit confusing to new players and was also hindering activity for guilds that fight across multiple ages.
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/change-log-1-27.6463/
June 24, 2016 - Changelog 1.79
Basing on your feedback, we've come up with solutions that will patch some of the loopholes that were reported by you and were making it possible to 'farm' lots of ranking points:
With this change, we want to prevent guilds from trading sectors back an forth with each other.
If a player was active in GvG for a guild and then switches to a new guild, he will not be able to partake in the GvG system for 96 hours.
This was also a highly demanded feature to fix some loopholes that were abused by players. Especially the "guild hopping" and "one-man-guild" issues will be addressed by this. It will not longer be possible for players to jump from guild to guild, fighting for each of them in GvG or create a one-man-guild to capture sectors, disband the guild, create a new one and do it over again.
Now, after a player has been active in GvG and changes guilds, he will have to wait for 96 hours before he can do another military action in GvG.
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/changelog-1-79.13957/
DeletedUser8152
I think that your definition of "farm" just might be different from Inno's definition. If you read "farm" as "exploit an unintended weakness to gain points too easily" then I think everything they've said makes sense.
What is your definition?
What is your definition?
DeletedUser26965
I't ambiguous at best. Inno does not define it. All we have that I can find I listed above.
Is also ambiguous. Was it an unintended weakness of the design of GvG to farm points? Clearly they thought so.
The design of battles was changed so people could not farm points.
The design of GvG was changed to dissuade people from point farming. Why?
If I had to define it I suppose off hand it would be something to the effect of, farming; using any aspect of the game other than it's intended purpose to gain in another area not intended for. but again this isn't about me, it's about inno's position. I respect your opinion on the matter but I think when looked at as a whole I believe my position is better supported. We seem to be at this impasse where you believe it's okay to do to some degree and I don't believe it was ever meant to do at all based on what I posted above.