Farming GvG for Medals: When Will The Silliness End?

[wolfhoundtoo]

It's just that I've seen much higher and wasn't sure what "considerable" meant in this context. So 23 troops a day.


It is/was, it's just not as effective as it used to be because inno made changes to make it not as attractive to do. And that's the crux of the matter here. They made it so the incentive for gaining points with that method was not as profitable or as easy as it once was.



See, this is my position and I'm more than willing to accept I may be off on the matter as long as we're actually discussing the issue itself and not anything else, I can really care less about a player doing whatever for whatever reason, my focus is on innos position. I believe based on what inno has said that GvG was never intended to be an area where it was possible to farm points. As a matter of just reading their own changelogs it's rather clear to me they don't want any point farming anywhere, they want GvG to be GvG not "farm points for me". They want players to play the game as intended, join a guild, gain GvG territory and naturally build battle points along the way, not try to figure out ways to gain points unnaturally.

People can look at inno's positions below, which is what I'm concerned with, and make up their own minds, I've made up mind but people are of course free to have their own opinions. And while I don't see any explicit address that says something to the effect of my position is absolute I think what we do have available to us below supports my position. I don't see anything anywhere that says point farming is what is intended. The only time I heard it was acceptable was when I contacted support on the matter and the lead in-game mod said it was "a completely acceptable practice". That's the first time I've heard/read anything to that effect and to me contradicts the positions below and those positions when taken as a whole.

March 22, 2013 - Changelog 0.29
Change to battle points
Only the winner of a battle will now receive points. This change is being made in order to prevent possible exploitation of losing battles to "farm" for points.
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/changelog-0-29.3033/

Feb 17, 2014 - Changelog 1.20
Guild vs. Guild Introduced
Your goal is to expand your guild's territory and hold on to it, to level up your guild and gain bonuses and glory for all its members.
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/change-log-1-20-guild-vs-guild.5612/

May 30, 2014 - Changelog 1.27
To combat GvG hopping, a new system has been implemented to stop players from rejoining a guild they have left for 7 days.

From now on, one player can grant freedom to a sector only 4 times per day. This solution has been implemented to prevent abuses that might happen when not-exactly-trusted guild member is accidentally given "trusted" right. The limit resets at daily calculation.

Siege army unit cost has been removed. The requirement to field a siege army with full units was a bit confusing to new players and was also hindering activity for guilds that fight across multiple ages.
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/change-log-1-27.6463/

June 24, 2016 - Changelog 1.79
Basing on your feedback, we've come up with solutions that will patch some of the loopholes that were reported by you and were making it possible to 'farm' lots of ranking points:

With this change, we want to prevent guilds from trading sectors back an forth with each other.

If a player was active in GvG for a guild and then switches to a new guild, he will not be able to partake in the GvG system for 96 hours.
This was also a highly demanded feature to fix some loopholes that were abused by players. Especially the "guild hopping" and "one-man-guild" issues will be addressed by this. It will not longer be possible for players to jump from guild to guild, fighting for each of them in GvG or create a one-man-guild to capture sectors, disband the guild, create a new one and do it over again.
Now, after a player has been active in GvG and changes guilds, he will have to wait for 96 hours before he can do another military action in GvG.
https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/changelog-1-79.13957/

1st you can't know what Inno actually meant by this anymore than the rest of us. So if you've inquired with Inno and they've already told you the specific scenario you've raised is fine what exactly is your point? That you don't understand how Inno defines things? That you might not agree with Inno? I'd also like to point out that nothing you've CAPITALIZED supports your case (which you have yet to actually provide one that the scenario you described should be abuse) as defined by Inno.

If you want to make a case that this should be abuse then you are wasting your time with this method by someone trying to come up with what I assume is some warped method to convince Inno they are wrong by quoting them.

 

[DeletedUser8152]

If I had to define it I suppose off hand it would be something to the effect of, farming; using any aspect of the game other than it's intended purpose to gain in another area not intended for. but again this isn't about me, it's about inno's position. I respect your opinion on the matter but I think when looked at as a whole I believe my position is better supported. We seem to be at this impasse where you believe it's okay to do to some degree and I don't believe it was ever meant to do at all based on what I posted above.

The reason I disagree with you is because I can't see any clear distinction between the behavior you're describing and simply fighting on GvG. So there must be some aspect of what they are doing that you don't like, and to you makes it farming. What is that?

 

[DeletedUser26965]

The reason I disagree with you is because I can't see any clear distinction between the behavior you're describing and simply fighting on GvG. So there must be some aspect of what they are doing that you don't like, and to you makes it farming. What is that?

I'm not sure of why you insist this is about me and what I like or don't like. I can really care less if people want to farm points, have at it I say. The distinction is one; in the positive form of the stated purpose of GvG, it does not say the stated purpose was to just attack sectors for points, it was intended to "expand your guild territory and hold on to it", it's meant for guilds to war against one another, just like PvP was intended for players to fight one another. Points are just an effect of those actions that come naturally from doing them and from inno's positions I posted show restricting or removing aspects of those designs where the sole goal was points and not the thing itself. Yes, you can make a one man guild and attack AA numerous times a day gaining hundreds of battles a week for points for the battle point towers for very little cost with absolutely no intention on playing GvG as was intended. If that was the intended design for GvG then clearly that was forgotten to be included in the description of its purpose.

 

[DeletedUser8152]

it was intended to "expand your guild territory and hold on to it", it's meant for guilds to war against one another, just like PvP was intended for players to fight one another.

But when you do that, you earn points. How do you know that this guild attacking isn't trying to make war on you? Is it that they don't try to hold the territory they take?

 

[DeletedUser26965]

But when you do that, you earn points. How do you know that this guild attacking isn't trying to make war on you? Is it that they don't try to hold the territory they take?

That is one way to know they would be doing it just for the points. It can easily be detected by a constant pattern of behavior of constant AA attacks and never really gaining, filling, holding or defending sectors.

 

[DeletedUser8152]

OK, so that clarifies, your definition of farming is attacking isolated sectors but not acquiring or holding significant territory?

 

[DeletedUser26965]

OK, so that clarifies, your definition of farming is attacking isolated sectors but not acquiring or holding significant territory?

Not holding any territory because it's not about territory it's about points which is antithetical to the stated purpose of "expand your guild territory and hold on to it".

 

[qaccy]

I dunno, you really seem to be confusing attacking in GvG with 'exploiting' here. And really, the changes Inno implemented to stop 'abuse' were targeted at guilds who were releasing THEIR OWN sectors (after loading them with 1-8 armies of champions or other easily-defeated troops) and then attacking those sectors for points. Attacking another guild is, indeed, part of the intended play of GvG. Ironically, it'd be more exploitative if you were putting 'good' troops into those sectors specifically to allow the attackers to gain more points from them. Them merely attacking you, even over a prolonged period, is not 'abuse' of game mechanics.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

Attacking another guild is, indeed, part of the intended play of GvG.

I never said it wasn't. I said "attack AA numerous times a day gaining hundreds of battles a week for points for the battle point towers for very little cost with absolutely no intention on playing GvG" is antithetical to the stated purpose of "expand your guild territory and hold on to it".

 

[DeletedUser26965]

Ironically, it'd be more exploitative if you were putting 'good' troops into those sectors specifically to allow the attackers to gain more points from them.

Exactly my friend, exactly.

 

[DeletedUser26154]

ambiguous.

Anyone remember that animated super hero team on Saturday Night Live?

 

[ITown]

As far as I can tell, all current GvG activity is intended. If it wasn't intended, why make it available for 3 years?

The only way you can stop people from "farming" GvG is to remove the battle points from GvG.

As long as the battle points continue to be a reward from GvG, people will continue to farm landing zone sectors for easy points.

Oh - and just for the record, I don't think GvG should have ever awarded battle points.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

As far as I can tell, all current GvG activity is intended. If it wasn't intended, why make it available for 3 years?

That's kind of a strange sentence to me. If all current GvG activity was intended then it was not that way three years ago because there were activities available then that are not now as noted in the changelogs.

The only way you can stop people from "farming" GvG is to remove the battle points from GvG.

That certainly is one solution but I think there could be others.

As long as the battle points continue to be a reward from GvG, people will continue to farm landing zone sectors for easy points.

Agreed

Oh - and just for the record, I don't think GvG should have ever awarded battle points.

You know it's funny Inno calls them PvP Tournaments, they're not because the tournaments of course get affected by all battles, GvG, GE and Continent Map, not just PvP. Frankly though I don't really care about farming, I just want consistency.

 

[ITown]

That's kind of a strange sentence to me. If all current GvG activity was intended then it was not that way three years ago because there were activities available then that are not now as noted in the changelogs.

Most of the changes that were made to GvG would be unnecessary if GvG hadn't awarded individual players points in the first place. Many of the changes that have been done were to stop players from farming points:
- removed ability to delete HQ - this was to stop players from farming points in a large number of sectors in a single day (it also had the unfortunate side effect of making it considerably harder to attack guilds in certain map locations).
- removed ability to siege a sector that you released that day (done to hinder point farming)
- reinstated unit siege costs to make point farming more costly (the unit siege costs were originally removed to make GvG more enjoyable for players without Alcatraz)

You know it's funny Inno calls them PvP Tournaments, they're not because the tournaments of course get affected by all battles, GvG, GE and Continent Map, not just PvP. Frankly though I don't really care about farming, I just want consistency.

I don't care about consistency. I just think that GvG changed player rankings for the worse because of how easy it became to farm points.