Feedback for the Guild Expeditions Update: New Trials to Come!

[Johnny B. Goode]

No - with the coins you get, you can get 40 from trial 1, ~47ish from trial 2, and 55 from trial 3,

And that is supposing you do all 5 levels, not just 4 like before. Requiring more just to get the average of what you used to get is still a nerf. Even at Trial 4 you have to finish all 5 levels to get the max of 60 Diamonds. (To be completely fair, you do get 145 extra coins over the amount needed if you do all 5 levels at Trial 4, so every 13th week you could skip GE altogether and still get the 30 Diamonds from the store, assuming you finish all 5 levels the other 12 weeks. Of course, you would then not get the 30 from the level 4 encounter. And if you didn't skip that week to use up the extra coins, they would just accumulate indefinitely if you didn't want/need any of the other "rewards" in the stores.)

 

[R E V A N]

Seriously disappointed they didn't fix Platinum Terrace Farm. It doesn't increase QAs, it doesn't shrink the size, and it doesn't remove the road requirement. So what TF is the point?!?! Are you trying to piss off your customers?

EDIT: on top of the Terrace Farm being pointless (a couple stat buffs don't matter), they also hard-capped the store items at obscenely low levels? What's the point of having a "store" when everything is hard-capped so low that no one can "buy" anything anyway?!?!

 

[honey55]

Seriously disappointed they didn't fix Platinum Terrace Farm. It doesn't increase QAs, it doesn't shrink the size, and it doesn't remove the road requirement. So what TF is the point?!?! Are you trying to piss off your customers?

EDIT: on top of the Terrace Farm being pointless (a couple stat buffs don't matter), they also hard-capped the store items at obscenely low levels? What's the point of having a "store" when everything is hard-capped so low that no one can "buy" anything anyway?!?!

Not sure it's much different than before in that it took lots of seasons to get enough frags for silver upgrades for me. Maybe it's cause i was at a low trial. It should be interesting to know if those at the top trisl ever got enough frags in one season to upgrade anything.

 

[jaymoney23456]

I thought there was supposed to be an announcement as to when this dumb GE change was taking place. Guess they just decided to release it without another word. Typical inno move.

 

[jaymoney23456]

In the previous iteration of trials, you were guaranteed 42-56 diamonds, depending on the trial you chose, with a chance to win up to 90 each season. The average result of this would be 58.2 (min 57.8, max 58.57) diamonds per week.

The current (new) system is that you have a guaranteed 30 diamonds from every Trial from level 4 of the expedition. You also have 3x10 diamonds available in the shop to purchase with common coins. As long as you collect enough coins, you are guaranteed those diamonds as well. The coin rewards are constant for each Trial, with you needing to complete at least Trial 4 to get enough coins to buy out all the diamonds. The end result is that you are guaranteed those 30 diamonds in the shop, for a set value of 60 diamonds/week from Trials 4+. It's not random. It's entirely set, constant values.

It also happens to be a slight buff in terms of the diamonds/week that can be expected for the average player, if they didn't work with other players to determine the Trials with diamonds. You do need to be able to complete Trial 4, but at a max of 840% enemy army boosts... that's not a very high bar with how strong buildings are these days.

In other words, an overwhelming majority of players will get very slightly more diamonds/season, while a very small minority will make fewer.


The 30 diamonds are only given at level 4, none are in level 5. Every player will be able to see this when they choose a Trial. It is bad wording, though.

Anyways, figured I'd jump in and clear that up.

Diamond farmers who have low attack% will not be able to get the 30 diamonds from the store each week since many of them do not have attack stats to do more than trial one. I know I sure don't in my strictly diamond farm cities. THere was also no reason to bother trying to build up the attack of those cities very far. That is the biggest thing this change nerfs. Also, the amt of fp and goods you can win from GE is again nerfed, as those aren't even offered in the store. Finally, the stores for GE only offer limited amt of buildings and will become totally obsolete if the player either doesn't want any of those buildings or if the player has as many of them as desired.

 

[jaymoney23456]

The GE stores are a total joke. All that is offered is GE buildings one could previously get from encounters. Nothing else is offered at all except a laughably small number of diamonds that will only consume a small amt of the basic currency most players will get. One cannot get fp, goods, troops, or anything else from the stores except the GE buildings either.

 

[Henrik the Seer]

I thought there was supposed to be an announcement as to when this dumb GE change was taking place. Guess they just decided to release it without another word. Typical inno move.

I only noticed the new GE store and was totally unaware of any proposed changes because nothing was sent to the players. Instead, they posted an undated Announcement (Thursday???) in the Forum, with no follow-up announcement regarding implementation of the changes. Absolute Inno BS. And as far as Diamonds from GE goes, we're now a very long way from where we used to be before all the Trial Levels crap, and even the 5th level being put in. Inno, you've got to stop screwing us pooches.

 

[R E V A N]

The GE stores are a total joke. All that is offered is GE buildings one could previously get from encounters. Nothing else is offered at all except a laughably small number of diamonds that will only consume a small amt of the basic currency most players will get. One cannot get fp, goods, troops, or anything else from the stores except the GE buildings either.

Not only that, but even the amount of GE buildings you can get is severely limited. Can't even use the shop to collect a bunch of FoY fragments for diamond farming. This is ridiculous.

 

[UBERhelp1]

Diamond farmers who have low attack% will not be able to get the 30 diamonds from the store each week since many of them do not have attack stats to do more than trial one. I know I sure don't in my strictly diamond farm cities. THere was also no reason to bother trying to build up the attack of those cities very far. That is the biggest thing this change nerfs.

Even just being in a moderately active guild for something like QI rewards should have you ready to fight Trial 4 very quickly.

Also, the amt of fp and goods you can win from GE is again nerfed, as those aren't even offered in the store.

No, those rewards have actually been increased. See the below chart:


As the number of slots taken up by the guaranteed rewards were reduced, the random rewards like FP, goods, and attempts are greatly increased.

Not only that, but even the amount of GE buildings you can get is severely limited. This is ridiculous.

This limit is almost entirely the same as it was before the update, with the exception of FoY and FoY Shrink Kit fragments being reduced from 70 and 65 (respectively) to 50 for Trials 26-30. The only difference is that these limits are in a shop, not as fragments directly won from encounters.

 

[R E V A N]

This limit is almost entirely the same as it was before the update, with the exception of FoY and FoY Shrink Kit fragments being reduced from 70 and 65 (respectively) to 50 for Trials 26-30. The only difference is that these limits are in a shop, not as fragments directly won from encounters.

Yes, which defeats the whole purpose of having the shop. If the amounts are fixed at the previous levels and players can't pick and choose which buildings they want to load up on, what's the point of having the shop in the first place?! Just go back to the rewards going automatically from GE encounters to inventory without the meaningless middleman that's been added. If you're getting all the same rewards as before, why have the shop? The entire point of having a feature like the shop would be to allow players to specialize their cities. The limit prevents players from doing that, so again, I ask: what's the purpose of the shop? It's specifically set up to NOT do the exact thing that it should be doing!

 

[CDmark]

Even just being in a moderately active guild for something like QI rewards should have you ready to fight Trial 4 very quickly.


No, those rewards have actually been increased. See the below chart:
View attachment 22829

As the number of slots taken up by the guaranteed rewards were reduced, the random rewards like FP, goods, and attempts are greatly increased.


This limit is almost entirely the same as it was before the update, with the exception of FoY and FoY Shrink Kit fragments being reduced from 70 and 65 (respectively) to 50 for Trials 26-30. The only difference is that these limits are in a shop, not as fragments directly won from encounters.

I think you will have this info.
I agree, 2 diamond buff in this latest version.
But, can you provide me with the averages in the previous versions of GE?
I think it went from 100+ to 58.2, now buffed to 60 (+1.8D)
I would say the nerfs far outweigh the small buff.

 

[henry herbsman]

Please read about the Guild Expeditions Update here and give your feedback below.

Much ado about nothing.

 

[jaymoney23456]

Even just being in a moderately active guild for something like QI rewards should have you ready to fight Trial 4 very quickly.


No, those rewards have actually been increased. See the below chart:
View attachment 22829

As the number of slots taken up by the guaranteed rewards were reduced, the random rewards like FP, goods, and attempts are greatly increased.


This limit is almost entirely the same as it was before the update, with the exception of FoY and FoY Shrink Kit fragments being reduced from 70 and 65 (respectively) to 50 for Trials 26-30. The only difference is that these limits are in a shop, not as fragments directly won from encounters.

I don't have time to be in a guild period in my diamond farm worlds. Am in guilds by myself in 2 of them and in one other one I am in a guild with a couple of diamond farmers and we don't do QI. I am sure that many others with diamond farms don't have time to be in guilds in them either.

 

[UBERhelp1]

I think you will have this info.
I agree, 2 diamond buff in this latest version.
But, can you provide me with the averages in the previous versions of GE?
I think it went from 100+ to 58.2, now buffed to 60 (+1.8D)
I would say the nerfs far outweigh the small buff.

I don't remember the exact number, you can dig through the fan wiki if you want to find it, but original for completing level 4 was I think 162 diamonds/week. That got reduced to 81/week I think when level 5 was added. Original trials brought that to an average of 58.2, and now it's a solid 60.

Short version is that it is true that the overall total is less than it once was, but it would be untrue to say that this latest iteration provides fewer diamonds than before.

I don't have time to be in a guild period in my diamond farm worlds. Am in guilds by myself in 2 of them and in one other one I am in a guild with a couple of diamond farmers and we don't do QI. I am sure that many others with diamond farms don't have time to be in guilds in them either.

There are plenty of no requirement guilds in each world that you can join. Some players will contribute a little in QI and GBG, and those small benefits you get are well worth the two minutes it may take to find one of those guilds. Also, if you don't do QI on a diamond farm, consider doing so! Even just donating resources once a day when you log on to collect your wells/fountains/aid with SV can be incredibly helpful.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Short version is that it is true that the overall total is less than it once was, but it would be untrue to say that this latest iteration provides fewer diamonds than before.

No, it would not be untrue. You are contradicting yourself within the same post. With your Inno spin muddying the waters, of course.

but original for completing level 4 was I think 162 diamonds/week. That got reduced to 81/week I think when level 5 was added. Original trials brought that to an average of 58.2, and now it's a solid 60.

There is no way that a max of 60 Diamonds requiring Trial 4 level 5 completion is a "buff" compared to an average of 58.2 that only required Trial 1 level 4 completion. It's a continuing nerf of Diamond rewards no matter what spin you try to put on it.

Of course, we know why you're saying it's a buff. You're in Inno's pocket. You support everything they do and they give you privileged information about the game so you can make your videos, which undoubtedly nets you a fair amount of money. (I know that's how internet content works.) And you come on here to defend the indefensible. So excuse me for no longer taking your word for anything, or trusting your numbers, as you are no longer posting as a player but as a de facto Inno employee. Sad, really, I used to really respect you.

 

[UBERhelp1]

There is no way that a max of 60 Diamonds requiring Trial 4 level 5 completion is a "buff" compared to an average of 58.2 that only required Trial 1 level 4 completion.

I am not trying to spin anything... 60 every single week (you could call that an average if you want) is greater than 58.2 average. Can we agree on that? Yes, you need to fight at a higher trial, but that is not a difficult task to do. If you have someone who completed the Care for Tomorrow and Fall events and placed the main buildings + a few side buildings, they'd be basically all set to complete level 5 of Trial 4.

You support everything they do

Bit of a strawman here? I'm not sure what gives you this impression. I do not support everything they do, and I call them on a fair bit. I had a whole section in my video about this Trials update about how I don't like it

and they give you privileged information about the game so you can make your videos, which undoubtedly nets you a fair amount of money. (I know that's how internet content works.)

Then you do not know much. I do not, in fact, net a fair amount of money. This is not my job, and I would be far below the poverty line if it was lol. I don't do this for the money, I do it because I enjoy it.

And you come on here to defend the indefensible. So excuse me for no longer taking your word for anything, or trusting your numbers, as you are no longer posting as a player but as a de facto Inno employee.

Then check the numbers yourself? All the Trials info is available to every player. Every reward, every shop item, etc. None of it is hidden. You have the opportunity to verify it.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

I am not trying to spin anything... 60 every single week (you could call that an average if you want) is greater than 58.2 average.

Sure you are, but of course you'd deny it. You and I both know that people figured out that the "random" Diamonds used to be in the same Trial for everyone every week. If my main world had them in Trial 1, all my worlds had them in Trial 1. If my main world had them in Trial 5, then all my worlds had them in Trial 5. And anyone (mentally) active in the game knew that, and shared the information. So while that 58.2 might be the average from a purely "random" probability perspective, it was not the actual average in practice. Only Inno knows what the real average was, and of course they will not share it with the general player base, because it will undermine their (and your) spin that this is not a nerf. And then there's the fact that even taking the theoretical average of 58.2, that means that for almost half of the players it is still a flat out nerf.

If your boss was paying you a base pay of $42.00/hour, but if you put your efforts into being more efficient he would pay you extra up to $90/hour, but then later told you he was changing that to a base of $30/hour with a max of an additional $30/hour for a ceiling of $60/hour, would you consider that a nerf or a buff of your pay? You know the answer to that, of course it's a nerf.

Bit of a strawman here? I'm not sure what gives you this impression. I do not support everything they do, and I call them on a fair bit. I had a whole section in my video about this Trials update about how I don't like it

I'm talking about here. I never watch your videos because I'm not contributing to your views. Maybe bring some of that "honesty" here about stuff instead of telling us a nerf is a buff.

Then you do not know much. I do not, in fact, net a fair amount of money. This is not my job, and I would be far below the poverty line if it was lol. I don't do this for the money, I do it because I enjoy it.

Regardless of how much or little it is, you aren't denying that you make some money off the videos. When you combine that with the fact that you're also not denying that they give you privileged information about the game, that tells me that you are a de facto Inno employee, or at the very least an independent contractor.

Then check the numbers yourself? All the Trials info is available to every player. Every reward, every shop item, etc. None of it is hidden. You have the opportunity to verify it.

Actually, unless you have memorized the previous numbers they are no longer available. They were available in the tooltips until the change, but now the previous numbers are not listed anywhere within the game or the Knowledge Base that I know of.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

Sure you are, but of course you'd deny it. You and I both know that people figured out that the "random" Diamonds used to be in the same Trial for everyone every week. If my main world had them in Trial 1, all my worlds had them in Trial 1. If my main world had them in Trial 5, then all my worlds had them in Trial 5. And anyone (mentally) active in the game knew that, and shared the information. So while that 58.2 might be the average from a purely "random" probability perspective, it was not the actual average in practice. Only Inno knows what the real average was, and of course they will not share it with the general player base, because it will undermine their (and your) spin that this is not a nerf. And then there's the fact that even taking the theoretical average of 58.2, that means that for almost half of the players it is still a flat out nerf.

If your boss was paying you a base pay of $42.00/hour, but if you put your efforts into being more efficient he would pay you extra up to $90/hour, but then later told you he was changing that to a base of $30/hour with a max of an additional $30/hour for a ceiling of $60/hour, would you consider that a nerf or a buff of your pay? You know the answer to that, of course it's a nerf.


I'm talking about here. I never watch your videos because I'm not contributing to your views. Maybe bring some of that "honesty" here about stuff instead of telling us a nerf is a buff.

Regardless of how much or little it is, you aren't denying that you make some money off the videos. When you combine that with the fact that you're also not denying that they give you privileged information about the game, that tells me that you are a de facto Inno employee, or at the very least an independent contractor.

Actually, unless you have memorized the previous numbers they are no longer available. They were available in the tooltips until the change, but now the previous numbers are not listed anywhere within the game or the Knowledge Base that I know of.

The EU Digital Fairness Act is working it's way through readings and looks like it's going to pass into law. It will ban micro transactions in online video games Europewide. This will make Inno selling us a secondary money replacement illegal. All transactions must be direct cash with no ingame currency allowed. FoE is living on borrowed time.

 

[Godly Luke]

This update is a nothing-burger and just serves to waste the time of players by making them buy the same rewards they would have otherwise earned normally in the chests between encounters.

If the item limit in the stores were even slightly higher than there were originally available, there might be a half-decent argument for this update. But they’re not, and now we’re left to collect yet another currency that we’ll have to manage. Do you know how many people still don’t know that GBG coins don’t expire and ask at the end of each championship. Well, it’s a lot more than you probably think. It’s the same deal with quantum and now GE too. Now, we have this currency that expires in the span of a week, and it’s already yet another way to confuse casual and semi-competitive players alike.

Like, I genuinely do not understand this. This update has done nothing to improve the GE experience whatsoever. For me and many others, it does nothing except add to the already dwindling time I have to play by forcing me to go into a shop and specify the amount of each reward I want. I still get the same rewards either way because I’m on a high trial, but this for me might the king of half-baked updates.

Throw in a few platinum upgrades that don’t offer anything unique or truly incentivizing, and a new building that won’t be available for ANYONE for at least 9 weeks, and Voila… update complete! A job well done on Innos part! Truly one of the most pathetic updates I’ve seen in a long time.

 

[UBERhelp1]

Sure you are, but of course you'd deny it. You and I both know that people figured out that the "random" Diamonds used to be in the same Trial for everyone every week. If my main world had them in Trial 1, all my worlds had them in Trial 1. If my main world had them in Trial 5, then all my worlds had them in Trial 5. And anyone (mentally) active in the game knew that, and shared the information. So while that 58.2 might be the average from a purely "random" probability perspective, it was not the actual average in practice. Only Inno knows what the real average was, and of course they will not share it with the general player base, because it will undermine their (and your) spin that this is not a nerf. And then there's the fact that even taking the theoretical average of 58.2, that means that for almost half of the players it is still a flat out nerf.

So are we talking about the average player or not the average player? Only a tiny minority actually shared Trials diamond info - afaik, I'm the only one who actually built a system for it, and while it was largely successful, a very small proportion of the active playerbase used it. Quite a few actually scorned it for being too much work. You've made the argument that Trial 4 is flat out impossible for the average player. If that is the case, then I doubt those players would be sharing diamond data (and even if they did, they wouldn't have a large pool of Trials that they could play to get those diamonds).

If your boss was paying you a base pay of $42.00/hour, but if you put your efforts into being more efficient he would pay you extra up to $90/hour, but then later told you he was changing that to a base of $30/hour with a max of an additional $30/hour for a ceiling of $60/hour, would you consider that a nerf or a buff of your pay? You know the answer to that, of course it's a nerf.

Not how this works at all... it would be more like "Hey, you get $42 for this job, but there's a 16.5% chance you can get an extra $48" (using Trial 1 data here since that's the only one with 42 guaranteed). This change is "You get $60 flat, always, as long as you do a good enough job."

When you combine that with the fact that you're also not denying that they give you privileged information about the game, that tells me that you are a de facto Inno employee, or at the very least an independent contractor.

Neither is the case, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise if you're so set on that classification.

Actually, unless you have memorized the previous numbers they are no longer available. They were available in the tooltips until the change, but now the previous numbers are not listed anywhere within the game or the Knowledge Base that I know of.

Depending on which previous numbers you are referring to, the fan wiki has all the data for GE up to and including the introduction of Level 5, I believe. You may have to dig through the history of edits to see it, but it is there. If you're looking for the previous iteration of the Trials, I have a spreadsheet backed up with that data and a publicly available spreadsheet of all the data for the current version. That spreadsheet also has all the data from the Trials diamond tracking if you're curious. I'd post the link but iirc the forums are touchy about external links? Been a while since I've checked in so don't know for sure.

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Anyways, I think I'm done responding to this for now. If you're going to characterize me a certain way, but then also admit to not watching my videos such that you don't actually understand my positions on things, there's little point to arguing. Good luck with the trials.