Feedback for the Quantum Incursions update and start of the 4th Championship

[CDmark]

I ran some numbers based on a post I made on page 9.
So, if you design your QI settlement to be all-out red and use all QA by reset Friday midnight, then take the weekend off, what would you lose for rewards, what would you save in time?

		tact kit frag	sent kit frag	col kit frag	silver frag	gold frag	shards	medals	fp
L10/11/12 calcs	rew dist	10%​	10%​	10%​	3%​	2%​	15%​	10%​	20%​
QA/hr = 7000	rew factor	4.3​	4.3​	4.3​	1.29​	0.86​	6.45​	4.3​	8.6​
100 QA = 14 hr	rew base	120​	120​	120​	30​	30​	25​	6000​	25​
total hr = 54	tot reward	516​	516​	516​	38.7​	25.8​	161.25​	25800​	215​
total adv = 108	6 seasons	3096​	3096​	3096​	232.2​	154.8​	967.5​	154800​	1290​
tot rew = 43	total PASS lost	6480​
43​

ok it copied nice. The factors are in column 1
7000 QA/hr - say 11 villas (dont get nit picky on this number, I know there are city buildings too)
every 14 hrs, full bar, but I just did 54 hrs (fri midnight to mon morning) to get 108 advances
then 40% rewards = 43 total rewards
tact/sent kit frag, could be king/queen, the extra bldg
I used advanced node values, they are the same for L10/11/12, much easier for me. If you are in top guild and get to the Boss node, then you would see a little more.

So, over 6 seasons, 6 extra bldg kits (3 of each), 6 col kits, 232 silver frag, 154 gold frag, 967 shards, 155K medals

PASS progress lost = 6580 and I will need to see in beta, after 15750, I am close there

Now the BIG QUESTION, how long do these manual battles take?
Here is my experience and I am very cautious in battles, so high spot number. I know when I drink a 30 min potion I use about 50K QA, so 14 battles. Maybe I suck at it, don't know, but I will use that factor. 108/14=7.7 x 30 min = 231 min

SO 4 hrs per season, 24 hrs per championship.

This is just L10/11/12 time, last weekend.
NOTE: I don't lose many units, many injured.

If I made a fundamental calculation error, pls post, I can fix it. If you can do 7400 QA per hour and want to post it, I don't care, make your own spreadsheet.

 

[Coach Zuck]

.
So, over 6 seasons, 6 extra bldg kits (3 of each), 6 col kits, 232 silver frag, 154 gold frag, 967 shards, 155K medals

PASS progress lost = 6580 and I will need to see in beta, after 15750, I am close there

Now the BIG QUESTION, how long do these manual battles take?
Here is my experience and I am very cautious in battles, so high spot number. I know when I drink a 30 min potion I use about 50K QA, so 14 battles. Maybe I suck at it, don't know, but I will use that factor. 108/14=7.7 x 30 min = 231 min

SO 4 hrs per season, 24 hrs per championship.

So you could 4 hours every second weekend grinding repetitively twice a day for an hour on manual battles, or assuming get paid more than minimum wage spend 50$ on diamonds for the same reward by opening all chests twice + come out ahead, unless you actually enjoy that kind of crazy grind. I haven't auto battled since the first incursion championship lol.. Sometimes semi-auto to off some horses before they reach me, but that is a lot faster than 1h per bar.

 

[CDmark]

So you could 4 hours every second weekend grinding repetitively twice a day for an hour on manual battles, or assuming get paid more than minimum wage spend 50$ on diamonds for the same reward by opening all chests twice + come out ahead, unless you actually enjoy that kind of crazy grind. I haven't auto battled since the first incursion championship lol.. Sometimes semi-auto to off some horses before they reach me, but that is a lot faster than 1h per bar.

I hear you 100%, on a diamond approach. To add some info for my specific player, I have 150% RB AD to start. I end up at 650-700% AD blue. At the end, it is faster to battle bcs I can auto with losses. That transition from 150% red to 225% blue, L9 to 10, then the next jump to 325%, that is the major time consumer for 2 reasons.
First, I don't have enough AD to do anything but manual battle. Some minor losses happen.
Second, I am still collecting CS to be able to get to 650% AD or more

So, base D info I have
1050 D = 1000 shards
1st one - 450 shards = 100K = 28 advances
Complete 1st chest = 1500 shards

What I don't know, additional D costs for 2nd, 3rd, etc 100K advances (280 progress each) and the 2nd or 3rd complete chest.
In a top 3 guild, the chests get you lots of fragments, esp silver/gold.

4 - 100K purchases per season = 112 advances so you make up the PASS losses which is basically medals and summer kit
do these on the farm node L1 or 2, fast, even the 2 range 3 fast, bcs the other 2 are auto battle. The problem with auto battle for 2range/3fast, the AI is actually an Artificial Idiot, it goes after the range first so you always get 1 hit by a horse. 1 injured ballista means you can't auto 50+ battles in a row. So, that 2R/3F battle, you set up and finish auto (for those not savvy on terms, this is semi-auto), This takes 15 sec max. Say the distribution is 1/3, there are 3 enemy configurations you face in L1, 33 battles, 4 per min, 8 min and you got 100 extra advances done. 8 min vs 4 hours, no comment, even my daughters hamster says it is a good deal (hamster spins wheel counter clockwise for yes, clockwise for no...lol)

then 1 chest, 1500 shards (1500 D) per season. second chest cost?

Now, some may say, HEY!!!, that diamond approach costs money!!! Yes it does and I have never been against spending money. I have proven to myself I can repeatedly do the new QI, use all my advances and now I am evaluating the L10/11/12 time factor. It is already boring and those 4 soldiers in battles are like a swarm of bees. For data hounds, 600% AD, you do 2-4 D on a S+4, 3 hits needed almost all the time, don't let that 4 fool you.
For a comparison, being a GBG leader late night in an all out war, you can easily spend 1K D's popping those 60% camps, EASILY, that equates to 8 of them.

So, I am doing a diamond assessment now. Thanks Zuck for bringing this up because I think it is a definite alternative.

I have been at 715% AD, still can't auto battle easily. Here is what happens. You win some, no losses, but 4 injured, means you cant use those units again until healed. So, you need a good inventory of units, gonna say 50 each B/A, manual I have 30 of each. And that 4 soldier wave 1 battle,
4S-2B-2A, you are still losing 1-5 units, yes can be up to 5. I have always told people, you really need to be 3X the enemy AD and L11/12 adv nodes, 975% for successful auto battle, and there are still some enemy configurations or terrain limits (like swamps blocking your lower ballistas (swamps never on the top, that goes for ponds too) that you will get a hit using auto.

 

[Angel.]

hope they fix the chest soon have a few that cant collect there 2 free QI chest not cool

 

[Coach Zuck]

hope they fix the chest soon have a few that cant collect there 2 free QI chest not cool

supposedly you can open a ticket to support, tell them you can't collect it and don't have access to a PC (it isn't broken on PC), and you have to tell them "which to open" (which is weird since it's all random anyways but at least tell them how many to open)

 

[Angel.]

supposedly you can open a ticket to support, tell them you can't collect it and don't have access to a PC (it isn't broken on PC), and you have to tell them "which to open" (which is weird since it's all random anyways but at least tell them how many to open)

dang thank you to late now i should have checked back in

 

[GypsyWoman]

Not enough shards in the pass! Inno went too far in reducing shards. Even using up all my quantum actions through level 8 (level 9 eats too many troops) I get only 200 shards. Not enough to do proper city development to be able to fight higher.

You mean the 40% x 15% chance for 25 shards?! No way that gives me 800 shards.

Perhaps Inno could allow guilds to stay on levels as long as they like or choose to move to a new level each day. Some guild might choose to finish a level before moving to the next -- some wouldn't be concerned about that -- but moving levels could be left up to each guild to decide rather than being forced. I'd like to see more contributory opportunities (like GbG and GE) but first remove forced level change while allowing level progress without finishing the previous level.

I agree with you 100% Xcynda. After the 3rd day, I no longer play QI. It is pointless when I keep losing and have no chance at a gain. This happens to more players than me. Once a game progresses beyond the player's frustration level, the player will quit. Inno has made it impossible for lower level players to participate beyond a certain day. Before the change, I was able to play daily.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I agree with you 100% Xcynda. After the 3rd day, I no longer play QI. It is pointless when I keep losing and have no chance at a gain. This happens to more players than me. Once a game progresses beyond the player's frustration level, the player will quit. Inno has made it impossible for lower level players to participate beyond a certain day. Before the change, I was able to play daily.

You should read this:

Zero-Support QI city

Testing out for 1 season a world where I have no QI-related buildings in my city to see how far I can go. Initial city: Day 1 fighting so far before all my troops were in need of healing (1 archer lost due to a mistake), My Boost 0/0: 190 progress.

forum.us.forgeofempires.com

 

[PianoFil]

You should read this:

Zero-Support QI city

Testing out for 1 season a world where I have no QI-related buildings in my city to see how far I can go. Initial city: Day 1 fighting so far before all my troops were in need of healing (1 archer lost due to a mistake), My Boost 0/0: 190 progress.

forum.us.forgeofempires.com

Yes, but most players are looking for fun and relaxation out of a game. Not a job that does not pay. We get enough of that in RL. The whole point in playing a game is to get away from RL for a bit and have some fun. And there is no fun in frustrating work were you have to be on a precise schedule just to get anywhere. And most of us, RL does not allow for such a schedule. Especially for a game that is suppose to be fun and not a job.

This is why a lot of us quit playing QI altogether. For everyone who likes their games to be a non-paying job, I hope you have fun.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Yes, but most players are looking for fun and relaxation out of a game. Not a job that does not pay. We get enough of that in RL. The whole point in playing a game is to get away from RL for a bit and have some fun. And there is no fun in frustrating work were you have to be on a precise schedule just to get anywhere. And most of us, RL does not allow for such a schedule. Especially for a game that is suppose to be fun and not a job.

This is why a lot of us quit playing QI altogether. For everyone who likes their games to be a non-paying job, I hope you have fun.

I was responding to this part of your earlier post: "Inno has made it impossible for lower level players to participate beyond a certain day. Before the change, I was able to play daily.". I offered you information that would enable you to progress further in the new QI - which is clearly meant to be a challenge. It has been proven that lower level players can get to level 8 but it takes some effort. Clearly, this is not what you are looking for.

 

[PianoFil]

I was responding to this part of your earlier post: "Inno has made it impossible for lower level players to participate beyond a certain day. Before the change, I was able to play daily.". I offered you information that would enable you to progress further in the new QI - which is clearly meant to be a challenge. It has been proven that lower level players can get to level 8 but it takes some effort. Clearly, this is not what you are looking for.

There is a difference between a challenge and a job.

 

[Mor-Rioghain]

Lots of variants on a theme in posts stating that the upgrade isn't really addressing the needs of a large(r) player base and generally seems to have scared off the minor to moderate spenders in favor of those who spend a lot and/or literally live on a schedule for settlement changes to augment resources and/or boost attack stats. Seems to me that the option to spend 'more' should negate (or severely diminish) the need to be married to alarm clock as it does in the cultural settlements and many aspects of the game itself or event mechanics.

Pretty much everything we've come to expect from the game is that all goals can be met by doing one of two things: We can manipulate the mechanic in some way and beat the clock that way, i.e., using rush kits for production quests, building/selling/rebuilding buildings to attain 'something' (high volume production cycles, higher yield productions in QI settlements, or using the "or" option in a questline when the task is too formidable for one reason or another), and of course, spending diamonds to rush the entire task/quest. The developers have even added a premium rush option to many of the day-to-day mechanics of playing the game in some areas such as rushing goods production in lieu of using kits. We've been 'trained' to expect not only an "or" but also to expect that the use of one or the other will result in success. I question the 'success' part when I see that there is no "or" in the new QI except that I have a choice to either build/sell/rebuild my settlement OR spend diamonds to obtain shards so that I can play every day of the incursion.

<screeches to a grinding halt>

"What!? You want to play every day of the incursion?? No one promised you that!"

Yes, you did. You taught me that in battlegrounds because you reset the attrition penalty to zero each and every day of the battleground. You taught me that in GvG when I set up strategies to ensure landing zones on certain era maps or by ghosting (reshielding) at recalc so that I could fight daily with very, very few exceptions.

You've taught me that patience is what wins this game in GE and PvP Arena where I am able to earn enough medals to buy extra turns simply by sitting out the clock. You taught me that a bigger friends list will garner me more/enough Tavern Silver in the "Did you know?" statements and in the FAQs so I could purchase extra turns for negotiating if I'm unable to fight all of the encounters I want to. And so on.

After nearly 7 years as an active, multi-world player, I am trained not only through my own experience but also by the experiences of those who contribute to the forums and those I've met in-game that first, patience is key to obtaining a desired reward or action and that with very few exceptions that I can manipulate the mechanic by simply thinking outside of the box. In review responses from the developers, player comments here, in-game, and player-fed forums, I am taught that this game is free to play and spending money is a choice, not a necessity to achieve goals. So, my question is: IF all of this is true, then why am I required to sit out 2 to 3 days of each incursion UNLESS I either live by a nearly impossible time clock OR spend diamonds to obtain shards?

Success in the game should never be a choice between spending hard-earned premium currency or worse, real money, or near impossible time constraints. Do what you've always done in the past, Inno. Give us a third option. Make it hard, even make it pricey (but realistic in terms of earning diamonds in-game), but don't make it as much as impossible.

 

[Bryannicus]

Sorry Bryan but you are categorically wrong. I bought 25 bucks worth of diamonds, one time, about a year ago. That's it. Never before, never since. I am fighting today, and I'll fight tomorrow, just like I did the final two days of QI last round.
You don't need to spend a bucket of diamonds to do it. You do need to choose to optimize your city for QI and learn how to optimize your QI city to produce the units and the stats you need. That takes practice.
There are a LOT of problems with the recent changes to QI. The auto level advance is one of the worst things they could have done to the game because it takes away any sense of accomplishment or motivation to push to get through a level, both of which are core parts of online gaming. Limiting us to one level advance per day with unlimited farm tiles in the meantime made sense, but auto advancement denies most guilds the sense of accomplishment.

It shouldn't be this hard. IT .... SHOULD .... NOT .... BE ..... THIS ..... HARD. Bear in mind, this is advertised as a "free to play game." To me, that means if I play my cards right, I should be able to win at least a few battles on QI LVL XII without spending a nickel. Regardless of whether I'm in a gigantic steamroller guild, or a one man guild. Otherwise, it's false advertising.

And it shouldn't be a full-time job either. Right now it's like being an on-call firefighter with swing shifts. That 10-hour production & construction cycle is totally brutal. Whoever thought that one up, fire his ass.

I scroll thru this discussion thread & it's like three university level courses rolled into one: (A) algebra, (B) accounting, (C) statistical analysis, WTF

I offer a simple two-step fix for all of this.

1. Make the production & construction cycles 8 hours instead of 10.
2. The 1x1 "Quantum Combat Spire" (QCS) is given to every player, in every domain, the minute that player scores 10 points in QI. Win a battle, contribute some Quantum Goods/Coins/Supplies, it doesn't matter.

The 1x1 QCS is a decoration that you place anywhere in your Quantum Settlement. You get a new QCS every season, the minute you score 10 points.It disappears at the end of the season when your Quantum Settlement disappears.

It doubles your combat bonuses in QI from any Aqueducts, etc. that you build in QI.

Pretty simple, really. Suddenly, people who were rendered incapable of participating in QI after LVL III-IV are capable of winning battles at LVL IX-X .... if they play their cards right.

 

[Dominator - X]

Bear in mind, this is advertised as a "free to play game."

It appears the keyword there in your quote, is "play". It is a free to play game not a free to win game. There are no guarantees of winning anything. However, we are also free to quit anytime we want.

Parts of this game are harder than others. QI can be tough to compete in if you don't want to pay anything. Not impossible, but difficult. Still, there are no guarantees of winning or even competing in anything with this game; not even if you pay. But especially if you don't.

 

[Kilamanjaro]

Just stopped back by after not logging in for, about three weeks to see if Inno had unscrewed this pooch. I see the answer is no. Have a nice day. Me and my wallet will be playing something else

 

[Pericles the Lion]

It shouldn't be this hard. IT .... SHOULD .... NOT .... BE ..... THIS ..... HARD. Bear in mind, this is advertised as a "free to play game." To me, that means if I play my cards right, I should be able to win at least a few battles on QI LVL XII without spending a nickel. Regardless of whether I'm in a gigantic steamroller guild, or a one man guild. Otherwise, it's false advertising.

It is indeed hard. It should be. However, it is possible to win battles on level XII as a completely F2P player. It takes a base of about 275+% main city boost to get there (which can be had without spending money).

 

[Dureall]

I don't understand this new part of the game. I have a very small guild, and I cannot get past the first challenge. I need to win 700 fights, and the game resets just after approximately 24 hours, erasing all my progress. This is maddening.

I was hoping when they chose to reinvent a new part of this game, we'd be able to use our own units from the previous eras. We have all these units in our inventory that are useless.

Unfortunately we have to use the units already planted in this part of the game. I find this to be a huge disappointment.

All I ever see is the units from the iron age era, and can never advance past that age.

What's the point of this game if you have a small guild. I have played less of this game because of these pointless changes. I shouldn't have to forfeit my guild to join a much larger one, to try to achieve the goal of making to the end of the quantum quests.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I don't understand this new part of the game. I have a very small guild, and I cannot get past the first challenge. I need to win 700 fights, and the game resets just after approximately 24 hours, erasing all my progress. This is maddening.

I was hoping when they chose to reinvent a new part of this game, we'd be able to use our own units from the previous eras. We have all these units in our inventory that are useless.

Unfortunately we have to use the units already planted in this part of the game. I find this to be a huge disappointment.

All I ever see is the units from the iron age era, and can never advance past that age.

What's the point of this game if you have a small guild. I have played less of this game because of these pointless changes. I shouldn't have to forfeit my guild to join a much larger one, to try to achieve the goal of making to the end of the quantum quests.

On the early levels, 700 progress is needed to defeat the first node. Each battle give 10 progress so it's 70 fights, not 700. Two, or three, players should be able to clear the first node on the first 4-5 levels (more if their boosts are sufficient).

 

[Bryannicus]

Consider the cadre/mass rule. For any group of people (workforce, chemistry class, Boy Scout troop, whatever), you have 20% of the people achieving 80% of the objectives. The other 80% of the people are getting only 20% of the objectives, but they're also providing mass.

The way QI is currently structured, you're going to lose your mass. In fact, they've already started to migrate out to other games. What's going to be left is the 20% living in a ghost town.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Consider the cadre/mass rule. For any group of people (workforce, chemistry class, Boy Scout troop, whatever), you have 20% of the people achieving 80% of the objectives. The other 80% of the people are getting only 20% of the objectives, but they're also providing mass.

The way QI is currently structured, you're going to lose your mass. In fact, they've already started to migrate out to other games. What's going to be left is the 20% living in a ghost town.

I don't know about a "cadre/mass rule" and a search for it was unsuccessful. However, the 80/20 relationship that you described is known as the "Pareto Principle" and the principle does not claim the the 80% will "migrate out".