Feedback for update 1.214

[ruth the northstar]

The only good thing about it is and I repeat the only thing is that the bot users will now stand out like a sore thumb and it will much easier to catch them. I saw your city in Korch and our playing style appears to be the same or close and I feel ripped off as much as you do.

i hope you are right about the bot users. i had a very good mentor in korch. and i like meeting a fellow fighter!

 

[plinker2]

Okay, EVERYONE needs to calm down and mind your manners! I hate giving out warning points,l So at least act like you are 14 yrs. or older. Enough of this bickering. We will be watching closely.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

it seems like you dont want to talk about the issues so you divert and dodge by hurling insults and making everything personal. at least i talk about the issues and not just try to intimidate others into being quiet.

I'm not diverting or dodging anything. I have no opinion about the change as I'm largely unaffected. I am aware of the issue for those it's an issue for and I understand why it's an issue for them. Beyond that, I've no opinion about the change.

Also notice, I've not disagreed with anyone's opinion, even yours. Just your temper tantrum, 1-star review. I think your rating in the store is unwarranted given your playing as much as you always were, maybe more now that things are slower. You're like the person who goes on Yelp and trashes a popular restaurant, because it too long to get a water refill.

At least your post count is soaring.

 

[iPenguinPat]

I'm not diverting or dodging anything. I have no opinion about the change as I'm largely unaffected. I am aware of the issue for those it's an issue for and I understand why it's an issue for them. Beyond that, I've no opinion about the change.

Also notice, I've not disagreed with anyone's opinion, even yours. Just your temper tantrum, 1-star review. I think your rating in the store is unwarranted given your playing as much as you always were, maybe more now that things are slower. You're like the person who goes on Yelp and trashes a popular restaurant, because it too long to get a water refill.

At least your post count is soaring.

1) Good feedback that this doesn't affect you. It's good to know that some people are unaffected by it.
2) You got your turn. Let others voice their opinion without attacking them in trying to invalidate their feeling about the topic.
3) A 1-star review is a legit form of feedback. When the forums and support don't work, that's the next logical step. If you have a better idea, we're all ears.
Inno has a chance to see the feedback and take action. If they don't players that rated foe a 1 star app will likely quit. Telling someone to uninstall before their feedback has been heard and processed is not community building.
4) This change has all kinds of problems with it. Aside from slowing down fighting, it also significant increases the amount of mouse movement required to fight. Older players with joint issues, carpal tunnel, etc may have to reduce play or even stop due to the broken ergonomics and suboptimal user experience/interface.

 

[Insatiable1]

Actually, THANK YOU INNO! For finally breaking my addiction to this game. Now is a great time to quit and get my life back and become more productive again. I'm sure that my husband would like to thank you too. I have nobody on my GBs at the moment, so no need to even go into the game and level anything. After 6 years, I hate to think about all the thousands of hours I wasted in your game when you had no concern about me or any other customers. Some of us bring a content to your game that you cannot produce yourselves. Have fun trying though. I'm sure Johnny and Agent have some great ideas that can save the game. BYE!

 

[ruth the northstar]

I'm not diverting or dodging anything. I have no opinion about the change as I'm largely unaffected. I am aware of the issue for those it's an issue for and I understand why it's an issue for them. Beyond that, I've no opinion about the change.

Also notice, I've not disagreed with anyone's opinion, even yours. Just your temper tantrum, 1-star review. I think your rating in the store is unwarranted given your playing as much as you always were, maybe more now that things are slower. You're like the person who goes on Yelp and trashes a popular restaurant, because it too long to get a water refill.

At least your post count is soaring.

okay i guess you didnt read plinker2's message... because you are again attacking me and making it personal. i have a right to my review without someone telling me im having a temper tantrum and comparing me to other people they dislike. i have a right to let inno know how i feel about what is going on and i have the right to do it the way i feel is best without you bulling me. please stop. you are welcome to say it is unwarranted and here are the reasons. but quit making it personal.

maybe try this instead.

i feel your 1 star review of inno is unfair because inno has countered your issues in this way... not your 1 star review is unfair because you are having a temper tantrum. i have yet to lose my temper. this kind of talk isnt constructive. and your jabs dont stop as we all can see by your comment about my post count is soaring. my post count is soaring because you guys are trying to silence me by bulling and insults. im going to say how i feel and not be pushed around. so please let's do as plinker2 has asked and stop bickering. and have adult like conversations about the issues.

back to the issues.... i again tried playing gvg tonight and it was very difficult and not much fun. please inno re-align the buttons so we can fast fight once again. please.

and i want to apologize to the moderator for me posting this message. but i feel that i am still being attacked in a personal way. and i am just sticking up for myself. i will do my very best to stop the bickering.

 

[iPenguinPat]

So you're adapting. Got it. And with each battle, your kinesthetic memory is being reprogrammed to the new position of the button. Most serious fighters will have it down by the end of this GBG round, the rest, in a month or two.

So bold. So brave. Such a hard stance.

I've always felt fine being F2P. While I appreciate those who choose to spend diamonds so I can play for free, I'll never be one of them.

Even if/when players rework their muscle memory, they will always be much slower post heal all. Clicking mostly in 1 place vs having to move the most twice and account for window pop-up lag is a night and day difference. It's probably 30-50% slower

Okay, EVERYONE needs to calm down and mind your manners! I hate giving out warning points,l So at least act like you are 14 yrs. or older. Enough of this bickering. We will be watching closely.

It's mostly just 2-3 people being rude and making it personal. Everyone else is just frustrated and trying to give feedback, so the the part of the game they enjoy most can be fun again.

 

[ruth the northstar]

Even if/when players rework their muscle memory, they will always be much slower post heal all. Clicking mostly in 1 place vs having to move the most twice and account for window pop-up lag is a night and day difference. It's probably 30-50% slower



It's mostly just 2-3 people being rude and making it personal. Everyone else is just frustrated and trying to give feedback, so the the part of the game they enjoy most can be fun again.

you are correct about this. the game play has changed dramatically and it isnt as much fun for me.

 

[ruth the northstar]

1) Good feedback that this doesn't affect you. It's good to know that some people are unaffected by it.
2) You got your turn. Let others voice their opinion without attacking them in trying to invalidate their feeling about the topic.
3) A 1-star review is a legit form of feedback. When the forums and support don't work, that's the next logical step. If you have a better idea, we're all ears.
Inno has a chance to see the feedback and take action. If they don't players that rated foe a 1 star app will likely quit. Telling someone to uninstall before their feedback has been heard and processed is not community building.
4) This change has all kinds of problems with it. Aside from slowing down fighting, it also significant increases the amount of mouse movement required to fight. Older players with joint issues, carpal tunnel, etc may have to reduce play or even stop due to the broken ergonomics and suboptimal user experience/interface.

i am an older player and i do have joint issues. and it has been causing me some discomfort. i have noticed my elbow hurting while im playing gvg now.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Older players with joint issues, carpal tunnel, etc may have to reduce play or even stop due to the broken ergonomics and suboptimal user experience/interface.

As an older player who has had both carpal tunnel surgery and ulnar nerve decompression in my right wrist/elbow, I can say that this is hogwash. Holding your mouse in one spot and clicking quickly and repeatedly would cause more of a problem than minor mouse movements. That's because it's actually harder on muscles/nerves to hold one position for an extended period, especially when you do it while clicking rapidly and repeatedly with one finger.

 

[iPenguinPat]

As an older player who has had both carpal tunnel surgery and ulnar nerve decompression in my right wrist/elbow, I can say that this is hogwash. Holding your mouse in one spot and clicking quickly and repeatedly would cause more of a problem than minor mouse movements. That's because it's actually harder on muscles/nerves to hold one position for an extended period, especially when you do it while clicking rapidly and repeatedly with one finger.

Anyone that is skeptical about whether the additional repetitive motion caused by the updated ux/ui can be the cause of pain/injury should consider doing your own research on RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury) and CTD (Cumulative Trauma Disorder). Also research into the ergonomic benefits of a trackball (which both my wife and I use and recommend to anyone that will listen).

In my research, I found that one of the main benefits noted for using a trackball is "you don't have to move your whole arm to move the pointer across the screen, which reduces strain on the arm, shoulder, back, and neck." (source link available via PM)

Therefore, no mouse movement is most ergonomic. Additionally, from an ergonomic standpoint, large mouse movements tend to be *more* ergonomic than small movements because the whole arm is required rather than just a hand/wrist movement (like is required with the new ux/ui). (source also available via PM)

With respect to clicking, no movement allows a user to optimize their position to reduce strain. Micro movements often lead to suboptimal hand/wrist/elbow/shoulder alignment because it seems ridiculous to use your whole arm to move your pointer 1/2".

The heal all button UX/UI now requires 2 extra mouse move for every single fight, assuming no misclicks. That is compared to literally zero mouse movement required if units do not need to be replaced (for gvg) or only two mouse movements for gbg. Each misclick on the heal all button adds additional mouse movements to confirm or decline spending diamonds.

That is a significant increase in mouse movement required for players doing hundreds of fights per day/session. Furthermore, the decrease in fighting speed leads to longer periods sitting at the computer because it takes longer to complete the tasks.

Your medical history alone doesn't make you an expert on ergonomics anymore than a heart attack makes an obese individual an expert on dieting. If you've maintained the same level of computer usage and yet are now pain-free (I hope that's the case btw. Join pain sucks.), then you at least have some credibility on one of many possible solutions. I still prefer professional resources.

 

[MooingCat]

As an older player who has had both carpal tunnel surgery and ulnar nerve decompression in my right wrist/elbow, I can say that this is hogwash. Holding your mouse in one spot and clicking quickly and repeatedly would cause more of a problem than minor mouse movements. That's because it's actually harder on muscles/nerves to hold one position for an extended period, especially when you do it while clicking rapidly and repeatedly with one finger.

As someone with carpal tunnel now, I can tell you this update sucks. I couldn't do a lot of GBG before my hand starts hurting, but GvG was much better due to the fact that I didn't have the move the mouse. As Pat points out I could find a position that was comfortable and leave the hand there. With this change GvG is much worse, good thing I don't play it a lot anymore.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

Therefore, no mouse movement is most ergonomic. Additionally, from an ergonomic standpoint, large mouse movements tend to be *more* ergonomic than small movements because the whole arm is required rather than just a hand/wrist movement

This is why I use my touchscreen laptop and why I'm largely unaffected by this update. Same as it ever was. See the button, touch the button.

 

[McBluefire]

A heal all button is fine, just not in the manner in which it was dropped in. This was clearly meant to make fast fights for non-macro users more difficult as they had many other places in the UI where it could be placed while maintaining the line-up of the attack and result windows.

On a touch screen this was a minimal adjustment to get used to, on PC it makes one prone to mistakes and adds unnecessary mouse movement for an already underwhelming feature of the game. Let's face it fighting hundreds and thousands of times is pretty dang boring and has more to do with going after rewards or hitting personal milestones in the game than it does with entertainment (aka grinding). Manual fighting (actually loading into the attack screen) looses it's luster after the first several hundred fights and I don't even know what many of the latter age battlefields even look like.

Here are just a couple of other options that need to be considered:

and


Thanks,

McBlue

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Your medical history alone doesn't make you an expert on ergonomics anymore than a heart attack makes an obese individual an expert on dieting.

That's an awful metaphor. Doesn't remotely equate. And you're assuming that I simply went to the doctor and let him do whatever. I have both researched this issue and dealt with it very successfully. I also have several family members and friends in the healthcare field, with whom I discussed this extensively when I had issues. The main issue with nerve problems is proper support. Absent proper support (and I'm assuming those with issues don't have it) it is worse to hold one position than it is to move, even slightly. With proper support, slight mouse movements wouldn't cause carpal tunnel. My suspicion is that those for which this is a problem probably aren't properly dealing with their physical issue medically.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

A heal all button is fine, just not in the manner in which it was dropped in. This was clearly meant to make fast fights for non-macro users more difficult as they had many other places in the UI where it could be placed while maintaining the line-up of the attack and result windows.

I don't agree with this conclusion. I seriously doubt Inno changed it the way they did to screw players. To think so is nonsense. That it slows down PC fighters is an unintended consequence. I also don't think any of the proposed location changes will work within the existing dialog box wrapper, which is why Inno went live with what did work in the existing wrapper. To me this is similar to the complaints when they added Age titles titles to the Market dialog. They could add the lines, but they would have had to change the wrapper to accommodate the 2 additional lines on screen.

On a touch screen this was a minimal adjustment to get used to, on PC it makes one prone to mistakes and adds unnecessary mouse movement for an already underwhelming feature of the game.

Which is why, from Inno's perspective, it's a bit of a non issue. Most players are mobile, playing on phone or a tablet. Of the user base in total, a minority are even affected. As I stated in a previous post, I play on a touch screen PC so when I have to do repetitive mouse tasks like collecting, fighting, or negotiating, I use the touch screen. For other things, I use the mouse. The best of both worlds.

Let's face it fighting hundreds and thousands of times is pretty dang boring and has more to do with going after rewards or hitting personal milestones in the game than it does with entertainment (aka grinding).

No one is making you do that much fighting other than you. Going after the rewards and milestones may not be entertaining per se, but you're going after them so you're getting something from it.

With this only really affecting the hard core PC fighter, I'm not sure Inno has a motivation to invest in the change. On the flip side, if another unintended consequence of this change is that it now allows Inno to identify and punish the Bot users who now stick out even more, would the change, overall, be so bad?

 

[Emberguard]

Anyone that is skeptical about whether the additional repetitive motion caused by the updated ux/ui can be the cause of pain/injury should consider doing your own research on RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury) and CTD (Cumulative Trauma Disorder). Also research into the ergonomic benefits of a trackball (which both my wife and I use and recommend to anyone that will listen).

In my research, I found that one of the main benefits noted for using a trackball is "you don't have to move your whole arm to move the pointer across the screen, which reduces strain on the arm, shoulder, back, and neck." (source link available via PM)

Therefore, no mouse movement is most ergonomic. Additionally, from an ergonomic standpoint, large mouse movements tend to be *more* ergonomic than small movements because the whole arm is required rather than just a hand/wrist movement (like is required with the new ux/ui). (source also available via PM)

I've found switching to a drawing tablet pen has been great as well. Has it's own potential problems of course, but much better than a mouse

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

For those who don't think Inno listens to feedback, you should check out the latest announcement.

 

[Savvy187]

I don't agree with this conclusion. I seriously doubt Inno changed it the way they did to screw players. To think so is nonsense. That it slows down PC fighters is an unintended consequence. I also don't think any of the proposed location changes will work within the existing dialog box wrapper, which is why Inno went live with what did work in the existing wrapper. To me this is similar to the complaints when they added Age titles titles to the Market dialog. They could add the lines, but they would have had to change the wrapper to accommodate the 2 additional lines on screen.

Which is why, from Inno's perspective, it's a bit of a non issue. Most players are mobile, playing on phone or a tablet. Of the user base in total, a minority are even affected. As I stated in a previous post, I play on a touch screen PC so when I have to do repetitive mouse tasks like collecting, fighting, or negotiating, I use the touch screen. For other things, I use the mouse. The best of both worlds.

No one is making you do that much fighting other than you. Going after the rewards and milestones may not be entertaining per se, but you're going after them so you're getting something from it.

With this only really affecting the hard core PC fighter, I'm not sure Inno has a motivation to invest in the change. On the flip side, if another unintended consequence of this change is that it now allows Inno to identify and punish the Bot users who now stick out even more, would the change, overall, be so bad?

I do not agree with your conclusion. As I said in my original post, even before this update was released my OK button would be moved out of alignment with the auto battle buttons on a daily basis if I were very active. What possible reason would there be for them to do that if it were not an attempt to slow me down?

I am also not sure why people who have stated this change did not affect them are so vocal in the thread about a change that did not affect them in any way?

Suggesting that I go buy some new hardware or try to find a work around for a problem that Inno created is not helpful imo.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

Suggesting that I go buy some new hardware or try to find a work around for a problem that Inno created is not helpful imo.

Where did I suggest you buy new hardware or find a workaround?