Founder Rights in Messages

[Salsuero]

Founders should have rights to all messages in a guild

What makes a message a "guild" message? There is one message that exists to serve the guild specifically, one that no one can leave, and leaving the guild automatically removes you from that message. Every other message is just a group message that may or may not coincidentally include all members of your guild. Unless there's a way to mark more messages as "guild specific", there's no reasonable way for your statement to be put into practice. Give a guild the means to mark messages as belonging exclusively to the guild and you have a point.

 

[Agent327]

Founders should have rights to all messages in a guild

Why?

If you and I are in a guild and have a personal talk, what would a founder have to do with it?

 

[Ta 152H]

What makes a message a "guild" message? There is one message that exists to serve the guild specifically, one that no one can leave, and leaving the guild automatically removes you from that message. Every other message is just a group message that may or may not coincidentally include all members of your guild. Unless there's a way to mark more messages as "guild specific", there's no reasonable way for your statement to be put into practice. Give a guild the means to mark messages as belonging exclusively to the guild and you have a point.

That's true, and members could then circumvent it by not marking it as a guild message, and just add members of the guild like it was a non-guild message. Then what? If you're not a founder you can't send messages to multiple people? How else could you stop it. So yeah, it can't work, because there really is no such thing as a "guild message", it's just a message that has guild members in it.

The only exception is that one at the top where anyone can write, and anyone in the guild can see it, so long as they are in the guild. For that one, I think Founders and Leaders should be able to delete stuff, but in any case, it's no big deal.

 

[DeletedUser11427]

What makes a message a "guild" message? There is one message that exists to serve the guild specifically, one that no one can leave, and leaving the guild automatically removes you from that message. Every other message is just a group message that may or may not coincidentally include all members of your guild. Unless there's a way to mark more messages as "guild specific", there's no reasonable way for your statement to be put into practice. Give a guild the means to mark messages as belonging exclusively to the guild and you have a point.

With the ability to send out guild wide notes on mobile, many players are being deluged with spam. This has been a problem since the new message system rolled out. just trying to think of a way to fix it.

 

[DeletedUser11427]

Why?

If you and I are in a guild and have a personal talk, what would a founder have to do with it?

I see your point, but have been frustrated with new message system since it rolled out in spite of multiple tweaks by Inno.

 

[DeletedUser11427]

I couldn't disagree more. I proposed something a while back to enable guild founders and those with elected rights to have admin rights as default for guild messages. I had a player that was quietly harassing guild members through PM but those members were being tough and did not complain then the abuser updated his profile and put horrible derogatory statements about particular players there and then he started openly harassing them on public messages over the weekend. I'm not a weekend player so my response was delayed but it all escalated very quickly. Housecleaning had nothing to do with it. If leaders don't know about a problem we can't act on it. It's too much to expect players to complain before it gets unbearable. In this case the target did not complain until it had already gotten far beyond typical game insults. The abusive player was removed after trying to work things out through PM but his messages remained and some guild members never left the threads so kept receiving the inappropriate messages for a long long time- many months- hopefully they were just lazy and not reading them but who knows. This member became hostile and openly abusive. Once I intervened he targeted me, which was better than him targeting my guildmate honestly because as founder you should expect a certain amount of difficulty with the odd player but those messages he started to to guild were there- permanently. So each guild member had to leave or decide to stay to watch the trainwreck. Sure sure reports were made to inno- but they said they couldn't intervene on guild messages only chat posts that they could check. So we had a bully to deal with on our own who kept on with the harassment even after he was dismissed from the guild for being abusive for months and months (that's founders/ leaders only recourse right now- give the boot). He still had an open door to harass the guild because he had started guildwide messages and was included on others that had limited admins that he did not start.

Then it was a trial to get in touch with anyone who had included them on a guildwide message to get them to update to guild members only and nothing- absolutely nothing- could be done with guildwide messages originated by the abuser. All I could do was to request that people leave the thread and cross my fingers for full compliance. How many guild leaders out there believe that they get full compliance on any request? Full complaince is an absolute myth- and we can't hold players at fault for that. It's not their job to make sure they read every message. We'd love it if they did but even I can't claim to read every post.

I had negative feedback on my proposal because one particular forum regular thought it was too dictatorial to have leaders and founders defaulted as thread admin. I did have support- more support than lack of support but nothing was implemented in game to bring about change. So FoE remains open to abuse and bullying. I refuse to limit guild members rights to start new threads instead we are application only. The purpose of that is to prevent the harasser from rejoining the guild. I prefer letting my guild members have the right to start new threads but I'd sure love to be able to step in and remove the rare abusive post. This is one of those things where it's not a problem until it's a problem! But it's a big big problem when it surfaces.

So as far as housekeeping we did the following:
intervene and contact the harasser and try to reach some amicable outcome to no avial
Remove the offender from the guild
Change from being an open guild (which stinks because we advertise as a newbie friendly learning guild) to application only- just to prevent this one person from rejoining. Simply moving to being application only requires new players to understand how to request invites to a guild. Sure it seems simple but when people are just starting out every little thing has a learning curve.
Hope and cross our fingers that they would grow bored and leave us alone on threads they started. This was the worst step because this person was genuinely invested in creating havoc. He did not give up for a long long time.

you said it all. Thanks

 

[DeletedUser11427]

View attachment 9373

Does the mobile app allow you to send to the entire guild in a single click if this right is not enabled? If so, that seems like a bug that needs to be reported. If not... well, don't allow this right until a member has earned the trust of the guild's leadership. If it is abused, boot... and if the player rejoins (if an open guild), don't grant this right and just re-boot upon noticing the rejoin. Simple, no?

Yes, the mobile app allows you to message whole guild

 

[Salsuero]

Yes, the mobile app allows you to message whole guild

Ok. So the proposal should be to fix the rights issue to match that of the browser, not give rights to more people without explicit consent. I get group message spam from friends and hoodmates... all via the mobile app since there's no link to do so in the browser. To me, the problem is that the mobile app isn't respecting the wishes of the guild founders/leaders to enable/disable this ability on a per-member basis. Let's fix that. If a guild has a problem with someone sending guild-wide spam, adding the founder(s) as admin(s) to the message doesn't stop the spam... enforcing the guild-wide message right does.