GBG cheating is not even being hidden anymore

[JWJWB]

I'm not sure if you're cheating or not, don't really care as long as it's not obvious but today I went up against a team that systematically took tiles and flipped the completely in 20 seconds from that tile opening. I'm fast, really fast when backed up by other guild mates. So fast that we must look pretty impressive from the other side. HOWEVER.... you can easily tell when we're working together because that's what causes the lag. Today, I was pretty stunned to see a team not only beat me, but they straight up slaughtered me and took a tile before I could complete 5 hits. Not due to lag, my system was running beautifully but due to the precision that the opposing team was fighting. They moved at a pace that was so smooth it almost resembled a zipper the way they wrapped it up. Each battle hit and won at the exact same time frame of all the prior battles. One would think they'd take time out to itch their nose or something. Not only did they take that tile in 20 seconds, but they moved on to the one next to it and took it in 20 seconds as well. I watched them seize 3 tiles in 20 seconds (each) with only a few minutes in between waiting for the tile to unlock. Almost as if they some how had access to the tile before it opened. This may not be a simple bot, it almost felt like Inno had been hacked. I don't know how they did it or why anyone would want to win so badly that they were willing to cheat like that. They didn't just want to beat the other teams, they wanted to dominate. How can they feel good about themselves when they didn't win at all. They cheated and it certainly isn't something to be proud of. I've never seen a team take a tile in 20 seconds like that and certainly not three tiles in a row. I don't know if they've hacked the system or if they have super fast auto clickers with everyone playing at once, but to take the tile that fast is just not possible. It's also impossible to beat a team with those type of tools. This type of cheating ruins the game.

Now I'll never know if there are other teams using these type of tools, or if they're legitimately beating us. We're a smaller team, so it's not hard to win against us playing fair. I'm very disappointed because I enjoy playing GbG, but with this garbage going on I'm so disgusted I don't even want to be here anymore. Seriously, who needs to win so bad that they're willing to try to steal the win. It reflects poorly on them, and the game. I do hope you do something to address this as soon as possible. When it's this obvious, it MUST be addressed. Cheaters are like roaches. When you see one, you know there are a lot more scurrying around in the background. I have a lot of pictures showing the times the tiles are were won and they stole them over a period of an hour and a half and most of that time was spent waiting for the tile to unlock from it's earlier win. I believe it's obvious cheating and the lag is not what bothers me. It's the lack of lag. When a bunch of us are playing, you get lag naturally. This team today aggressively took the entire map and it felt like no one was playing. Like they weren't there at all. As if somehow they went in behind the scene and won all the tiles before they were opened and we were just watching the rerun.

Same thing as Dominator - on opening day, sectors go in 20 or less seconds in my guild. And I'm in diamond league. It takes 220 hits minimum to take a sector, and even more if there are buildings. Maybe people just click very fast. (Like me )

 

[imchristi2]

Same thing as Dominator - on opening day, sectors go in 20 or less seconds in my guild. And I'm in diamond league. It takes 220 hits minimum to take a sector, and even more if there are buildings. Maybe people just click very fast. (Like me )

I'd give you a nod for that comment, if it were possible. It's not. No one can possibly click faster, I have to wait for the system to catch up with me as is. They can click as fast, but not faster. If we've both got a little over 300 battles to take the tile (that's normal here) then it's the same for the other team. I can easily click that many times but the system can't keep up with it and will lag. In this instant, there was zero lag which was why I originally thought I was playing without competition. However, within seconds they not only started but completed the tile before I got 5 more hits in. There's where they made the mistake. Beat me when I'm not paying attention, possible, beat me when I'm ahead AND while I've got another top level player backing me up? Nope, I'm not buying it. They were cheating and I'm not 100% positive they didn't have a little hacker backup. I believe the only way to level the playing field will be when ALL players start using bots. Then maybe they won't consider it a measurement for success. Cheating isn't winning and losing to a cheater is not anything to be ashamed of. I'm embarrassed for the members of those teams because they think they're really something and they're not. They're a part of a guild that really doesn't exist. Those little weaklings are nothing without their tools.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

Same thing as Dominator - on opening day, sectors go in 20 or less seconds in my guild. And I'm in diamond league. It takes 220 hits minimum to take a sector, and even more if there are buildings. Maybe people just click very fast. (Like me )

My guild opened up at the bell with 57 fighters going all out. What do you think 57 fighters on the same sector looks like ? When we call a race in advance people set alarms and we routinely get 20-30 on regular closes and 30-50 on races. Not everything is cheating.

 

[imchristi2]

There wouldn't be much of a problem if guild GBG captains had the ability to Diamond Unlock zones. Guilds over run from being under classed or bot cheaters could always diamond unlock a zone for fights on their time schedule. It would make GBG more dynamic, strategic, and nullify the ability of the top few to monopolize the GBG map.

You'll need to clarify this one for me. By diamond "unlock" are you speaking of the time it takes to unlock a tile after winning it?

 

[imchristi2]

My guild opened up at the bell with 57 fighters going all out. What do you think 57 fighters on the same sector looks like ? We we call a race in advance people set alarms and we routinely get 20-30 on regular closes and 30-50 on races. Not everything is cheating.

True, but when this happens there's lag in the game. You know when you're up against a well coordinated team. You also know when it's a bot. Bot's are uniform in their play, smooth. Individuals that are coordinated as a team can close up a tile fast (been there, done that) BUT.. there's lag and there's also a little delay that's visible when they close the tile.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

True, but when this happens there's lag in the game. You know when you're up against a well coordinated team. You also know when it's a bot. Bot's are uniform in their play, smooth. Individuals that are coordinated as a team can close up a tile fast (been there, done that) BUT.. there's lag and there's also a little delay that's visible when they close the tile.

We had an important race early this morning and closed up a 410 tile in 31 seconds , that 13 fights / sec. The human eye is not fast enough to detect any changes in the spaces between fights at that speed.

 

[JWJWB]

I'd give you a nod for that comment, if it were possible. It's not. No one can possibly click faster, I have to wait for the system to catch up with me as is. They can click as fast, but not faster. If we've both got a little over 300 battles to take the tile (that's normal here) then it's the same for the other team. I can easily click that many times but the system can't keep up with it and will lag. In this instant, there was zero lag which was why I originally thought I was playing without competition. However, within seconds they not only started but completed the tile before I got 5 more hits in. There's where they made the mistake. Beat me when I'm not paying attention, possible, beat me when I'm ahead AND while I've got another top level player backing me up? Nope, I'm not buying it. They were cheating and I'm not 100% positive they didn't have a little hacker backup. I believe the only way to level the playing field will be when ALL players start using bots. Then maybe they won't consider it a measurement for success. Cheating isn't winning and losing to a cheater is not anything to be ashamed of. I'm embarrassed for the members of those teams because they think they're really something and they're not. They're a part of a guild that really doesn't exist. Those little weaklings are nothing without their tools.

You just said that it was you and another player on one sector. OF COURSE your going to lose. As Sharmon said, if you have enough people on one sector, a sector can go faster than you can say "cheaters"

 

[WillyTwoShoes]

You'll need to clarify this one for me. By diamond "unlock" are you speaking of the time it takes to unlock a tile after winning it?

Yes. Guild players with battle rights would be able to use diamonds to unlock any GBG province adjacent to an "owned" province. Under the current mechanic my thinking is it would break up the monopoly the top few guilds have of over running a map then farming it on a time schedule they basically set for themselves.

I think it would make the GBG maps a lot more dynamic over the course of a GBG season.
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[Sharmon the Impaler]

I think a system of opening sectors with Diamonds (as soon as it closed) it would end up a "who's got the most money 'wins scenario. It would not be fair to anyone who did not spend a lot of money to play.
I admit it might get Inno a pile of cash, at least at first. Then everyone not spending would just stop playing GbG. Or make a general rule (like the sort of rules to not use Traps, or not delete buildings) to not do it, because it is just too much crap to deal with, and everyone is soon burned out (due to attrition. or general malaise LoL)

Of course that would kill off GBG and Inno knows this or they would have done it 2 years ago. The same reason why they limit the purchase of shards in QI. Someone buying a win means everyone else loses no matter their effort.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

One idea I had was the number of any building in a city be limited. My first thought on that was to limit to five copies. Then the Diamond spenders can grab more. but not a lot more. I have often had many more than five. so this would hurt me too. but it certainly would be fairer to non-spenders. Perhaps grandfather in all previous ones. and just going forward the five limit. But as they are removed they can't be re-added if over five. Inno will never do this since it would reduce spending LoL
The best example right now are players with 60+ Eco Sanctums making 40,000 Forge Points a day..

Also drop the cannot be reset with Finish Special. Rather make that idea into one where that kind of building can only be FSP once each 24hrs.

A problem with this is that it would have to not be retro active. The largest spenders have spent 10s of thousands over the years and some have very deep pockets. They would be opening themselves up to lawsuits if they stripped away thousands worth in spending after it was spent.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

One idea I had was the number of any building in a city be limited. My first thought on that was to limit to five copies. Then the Diamond spenders can grab more. but not a lot more. I have often had many more than five. so this would hurt me too. but it certainly would be fairer to non-spenders. Perhaps grandfather in all previous ones. and just going forward the five limit. But as they are removed they can't be re-added if over five. Inno will never do this since it would reduce spending LoL
The best example right now are players with 60+ Eco Sanctums making 40,000 Forge Points a day..

Also drop the cannot be reset with Finish Special. Rather make that idea into one where that kind of building can only be FSP once each 24hrs.

Why should INNO ever consider making the game, as you wrote, "fairer to non-spenders"? I have been strictly F2P for a very long time. I don't have any problem whatsoever with P2P players gaining an advantage from spending money. Like all F2P players, I choose to spend no money on the game. With that choice I accept the fact that big spenders may very well move along faster, or progress further, than I.

 

[planetofthehumans2]

Inno should 100% address the lag, hopefully they're not using the same 10+ year old servers they started the game with. I've literally sat there and saw another guy racing me but the lag was literally so bad I was probably doing 3 fights per minute (the same as the other guy), slower than watching paint dry. That's definitely a server problem, no matter how fast you can go, you cannot beat the lag. And then there's the PC issue that the game stops you from being able to click the attack button for no reason, no matter how many clicks it doesn't register.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

Inno should 100% address the lag, hopefully they're not using the same 10+ year old servers they started the game with. I've literally sat there and saw another guy racing me but the lag was literally so bad I was probably doing 3 fights per minute (the same as the other guy), slower than watching paint dry. That's definitely a server problem, no matter how fast you can go, you cannot beat the lag. And then there's the PC issue that the game stops you from being able to click the attack button for no reason, no matter how many clicks it doesn't register.

We all log into the same databases on the same server when we are on the same world. This is a QoS problem not a server problem. They are priority tagging some packets over others creating a lag for the untagged packets now waiting in the buffer. Load balancing would help but is very expensive for the revenue generated. If they went through and pared off all redundant data from the attack packets and then prioritize them alone. The response packet then gets the stripped redundant data put back and then this packet is then reprioritized for the journey back the the individual player that sent it. There is no "game server" . It is a combination of data bases , RNG libraries , authentication routines and hardening scripts residing on several servers giving the player the illusion of a "home world"

 

[UBERhelp1]

A problem with this is that it would have to not be retro active. The largest spenders have spent 10s of thousands over the years and some have very deep pockets. They would be opening themselves up to lawsuits if they stripped away thousands worth in spending after it was spent.

Not true, as part of the general terms and conditions, Inno more or less reserves the right to change features, game elements, and premium content. You could sue, but it would be a waste of your time

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

Not true, as part of the general terms and conditions, Inno more or less reserves the right to change features, game elements, and premium content. You could sue, but it would be a waste of your time

A TOS does not excuse acting in bad faith which would be easy to prove showing an account with $10K of purchases clawed back.

 

[planetofthehumans2]

We all log into the same databases on the same server when we are on the same world. This is a QoS problem not a server problem. They are priority tagging some packets over others creating a lag for the untagged packets now waiting in the buffer. Load balancing would help but is very expensive for the revenue generated. If they went through and pared off all redundant data from the attack packets and then prioritize them alone. The response packet then gets the stripped redundant data put back and then this packet is then reprioritized for the journey back the the individual player that sent it. There is no "game server" . It is a combination of data bases , RNG libraries , authentication routines and hardening scripts residing on several servers giving the player the illusion of a "home world"

I can admit that I don't work in the technology sector, but I can still be angry at how much lag is occurring when only two people (!!) are fighting on the map with such intense lag. I don't think we should have to suffer like this and it will negatively affect revenue when people get tired of it if it hasn't already!

 

[Dominator - X]

Yes. Guild players with battle rights would be able to use diamonds to unlock any GBG province adjacent to an "owned" province. Under the current mechanic my thinking is it would break up the monopoly the top few guilds have of over running a map then farming it on a time schedule they basically set for themselves.

I think it would make the GBG maps a lot more dynamic over the course of a GBG season.
-

I think you lack the ability to foresee what we in the industry refer to as unintended consequences. What you see as an effort towards balancing, I see as an opportunity to dominate. The top guilds would just unlock stuff and conquer it until the lower guilds gave up doing the same thing. Then, they (top guilds) would continue taking stuff right after the lower guilds conquered the traditional method of opening a province.

If you are in support of totally lopsided and unfair advantages, your proposal is gold. However, I sense that that is not your intention. Intentions aside, total domination is where it would lead to. And total burn out would be greater than what we see today.

 

[WillyTwoShoes]

Although I have responded to the counter arguments put forth once before I will do so again here. Without cluttering up my response I will try to address the points that have been brought up.

First off I have no interest in attempting to balance this game.
Which is not to say it isn't a concern of mine rather that any "balancing" that takes place is going to be undertaken and probably messed up by the Inno/foe design team.

If you could diamond unlock a zone would you?
I asked this question before and the replies were interesting. Please note I didn't ask if you like it. The question is would you.

Increased Diamond intake for Inno/foe.
Many of you say that like its a bad thing. If it's for something players want that's a win/win.

Diamond unlocking zones would lead to runaway diamond costs in GBG.
Pshaw! Diamonds or the lack thereof is the ultimate arbiter of cost.

The "top guilds" would just unlock and over run zones as soon as they are conquered.
Like that isn't happening now? I recognize the current GBG configuration is conducive to the top few guilds that dominate foe worlds and that they are settled into their comfort zones. I also recognize they, in large part, support their GBG efforts with diamond farms and that after over running a map they basically farm the fights on their schedule for their own benefit. They have a monopoly and that is unhealthy for the game.

It would cost more Diamonds for the "little guilds" to compete.
The top GBG guilds are the only ones happy with the GBG system as it is currently configured. They happily over run and shut down a map then farm it on their schedule for an entire season. It cost's them less than nothing and denies any tangible rewards to the "little guilds". All while they get fed a steady diet of under powered guilds each season without any end in sight. Giving the little guilds a way to bite back when and if they are ready - on their schedule - isn't going to blow up the top guilds and if it did then what does that say about how good they really are?

Top guilds would have to spend more Diamonds to compete against each other.
My gut reaction to this is so what? Putting that aside, I'll say how is it a bad thing considering the Diamonds their players are farming out of the lower tier matchups they get every season? You are not entitled to easy pickings on the reward table just because your in a top GBG guild.
-

 

[honey55]

This really sounds like its making a pay to win feature a more expensive pay to win feature. You want true competition youd need to remove all possibility to pay to win including individuals players paying to get the buildings to get super high attrition. This game is what it is and adding more ways to pay to win is not going to improve it in my opinion.

 

[Dominator - X]

Although I have responded to the counter arguments put forth once before I will do so again here. Without cluttering up my response I will try to address the points that have been brought up.

First off I have no interest in attempting to balance this game.
Which is not to say it isn't a concern of mine rather that any "balancing" that takes place is going to be undertaken and probably messed up by the Inno/foe design team.

If you could diamond unlock a zone would you?
I asked this question before and the replies were interesting. Please note I didn't ask if you like it. The question is would you.

Increased Diamond intake for Inno/foe.
Many of you say that like its a bad thing. If it's for something players want that's a win/win.

Diamond unlocking zones would lead to runaway diamond costs in GBG.
Pshaw! Diamonds or the lack thereof is the ultimate arbiter of cost.

The "top guilds" would just unlock and over run zones as soon as they are conquered.
Like that isn't happening now? I recognize the current GBG configuration is conducive to the top few guilds that dominate foe worlds and that they are settled into their comfort zones. I also recognize they, in large part, support their GBG efforts with diamond farms and that after over running a map they basically farm the fights on their schedule for their own benefit. They have a monopoly and that is unhealthy for the game.

It would cost more Diamonds for the "little guilds" to compete.
The top GBG guilds are the only ones happy with the GBG system as it is currently configured. They happily over run and shut down a map then farm it on their schedule for an entire season. It cost's them less than nothing and denies any tangible rewards to the "little guilds". All while they get fed a steady diet of under powered guilds each season without any end in sight. Giving the little guilds a way to bite back when and if they are ready - on their schedule - isn't going to blow up the top guilds and if it did then what does that say about how good they really are?

Top guilds would have to spend more Diamonds to compete against each other.
My gut reaction to this is so what? Putting that aside, I'll say how is it a bad thing considering the Diamonds their players are farming out of the lower tier matchups they get every season? You are not entitled to easy pickings on the reward table just because your in a top GBG guild.
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You are purposely ignoring my entire point. However, and putting that aside, the only way this would be feasible, and worked for the benefit you put forth, is by limiting the number of times a guild can enact this feature per 24 hours. Otherwise, my "counter argument" as you call it, would absolutely happen; intended or not.