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GBG- when will it get balanced?

DeletedUser39339

It's a diplomacy race. Can you set up a stronger coalition before the big Guild does?

Stay in touch with those Guild Leaders and other you meet. Next time around work with them to stomp the one Guild.

Assuming the one Guild does nothave a monstrous advantage in quality of players, 4 Guilds of 40 players coordinated properly will kick the crap out of them..

Or sign up with them.
I do plan to stay in touch with the other leaders. Unfortunately, the option to "sign up with them" was rescinded. I was not surprised. We kick their butt in GvG every night. So I know the quality of their fighters. They do however have the advantage of being a large guild with many high end fighters. I lost a member of my own guild to them because they wanted to farm 2000 fights in a season. They will move back into Diamond and be there for 2 seasons. Then kicked back into Platinum. They are not a well respected guild since being a bully doesn't make for long term friendship.

So other than staying in contact with leaders, your advice sounds like we need to pretty much accept the fact that Battlegrounds isn't about competing against other guilds anymore but more about farming for individual rewards for guild members. Not really what I was hoping for.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
They have aligned with 3 other guilds, who told me they felt they had no choice, can't fight a guild of 70+ when they all are half the size.
Unfortunately, the only other choice would have been for none of the other guilds to sign on, letting he big guild completely overrun the entire map, leaving them no place to play for rewards. Once there's no more turn over of provinces, they're done. Of course this then means you're done also, no rewards for you either.
We need to pretty much accept the fact that Battlegrounds isn't about competing against other guilds anymore but more about farming for individual rewards for guild members. Not really what I was hoping for.
Yup. GBG has evolved into a situation where, since you can't beat them, you have no choice but to join them. If they let you.

I can't imagine this is what Inno envisioned when they introduced GBG, yet this is where we are. Game the system or don't play the game.
 

DeletedUser39339

Unfortunately, the only other choice would have been for none of the other guilds to sign on, letting he big guild completely overrun the entire map, leaving them no place to play for rewards. Once there's no more turn over of provinces, they're done. Of course this then means you're done also, no rewards for you either.

LOL ... apparently the other guilds that aligned with the large guild can't turn over provinces very quickly and the large guild has most of the map conquered. They have now offered to stop blocking us if we agree to swap so they can continue farming rewards. Wasn't planned as you suggested, just happened on it's own.
Not counting my elite players, my guild members average 110 battles per season and 30 negotiations. Although fp rewards are earned about 25% of the time, it's only about 150fp the member loses out on for the season if they don't get to participate. And my really young players who could use the extra fp aren't getting that many encounters in so only lose out on 2 or 3 fp rewards. My guild likes to compete. Take that away and set up fixed fights with predetermined outcomes then they lose interest.
 

Ctik

Member
More and more people leaving the game because of the problems with GBG.
If 100 of the top 160 players on a server are within 2 guilds and those 2 guilds swap back and forth provinces every 4 hours and let no one else get anything, they are driving players away from the server, if not from the game. INNO has chosen to do nothing. Soon those 2 guilds will have no one but themselves to fight against. The morale of players is falling and falling fast and yet, we sit here with the worst morally players widening the gap further and further. I hope INNO is listening.
There are many possible solutions to fix this. One of the simplest to test first is no longer show the total points of other besiegers. Only your guilds. No clue if someone else is attacking, how fast they are and if they are close to taking it before you. Camping at 159/160 between the 2 guilds wont be able to be done any longer. This is just one suggestion floating around. There are many others.
For those of you that think everything is just fine, you must be in that top 100 and do not know what its like on the other side for a player trying get better but is being denied by players like you.
You may now make your condescending replies.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
You may now make your condescending replies.

I wasn't condescending when I pointed out you were wrong in your last post, you were. But since you asked nicely, as you wish, so it shall be done. I'm always in favor of replying in kind.

More and more people leaving the game because of the problems with GBG.

People have been saying that for at least five years about every aspect of the game.

Maybe it's true.

The total number of players has gone up every year, maybe it's not a problem that some players can't adjust to new features.

I'm in three Guilds, about 200 Players. Not one has said they were quitting over GBG. One world has been in Diamond for months and has no GBG requirement. Another is in Diamond over half the time, that doesn't have nay GBG requirement and doesn't dance, we fight all the time. The third, the one that has only made it to Diamond once, does have a GBG requirement but doesn't enforce the rule.

How about all those 'more and more players' you know who are quitting. Any chance they are in Guilds requiring GBG? That maybe requiring GBG is what's chasing those players out of your Guild and either quitting the game or just telling you they quit and keep playing?

One of the simplest to test first is no longer show the total points of other besiegers.

Interesting idea. Could work. Simple, but i think you're the first to suggest it. Worth discussion.

How about presenting that idea someplace other then buried the middle of a post surrounded by bitterness, anger, and provocation?

Or is venting more important then trying to solve your problem?

There are many others.

Like what? Think you can post them without sounding angry or embarrassed or defensive?

If this post wasn't condescending enough let me know. I can up the ante.
 

Ctik

Member
Think you can post them without sounding angry or embarrassed or defensive?
Why are you reading it in an angry or embarrassed or defensive manner? Go back and read all but the last line calmly. The last line was feed exactly for a response you gave just to show that no body can always add feeling to a text post.

Also, why not respond to every part of my post? What about:
If 100 of the top 160 players on a server are within 2 guilds and those 2 guilds swap back and forth provinces every 4 hours and let no one else get anything, they are driving players away from the server, if not from the game. INNO has chosen to do nothing. Soon those 2 guilds will have no one but themselves to fight against. The morale of players is falling and falling fast and yet, we sit here with the worst morally players widening the gap further and further. I hope INNO is listening.
This is a huge problem in my world. They are killing the server every season. More and more people are just quitting.
We are also in need of better responses of than the usual. "Join a better guild", "get more players", etc etc etc.
We have 80 players, we are currently in the top diamond island. We didnt get here by not being good. However the gap between the top 2 guilds and the rest of the guilds on the server is so extreme, it is no longer fun. It is worse for us to be stuck with them than it is to be in platinum where we could actually use our attrition every day. Here we are denied from even getting 1/5 of it spent, slowing us even further while they gain even more. They do not destroy camps when taking each others provinces adding even more misery to everyone stuck with them.

Now read that with description, not anger nor any other negative emotion.

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As for my suggestion in not showing other guilds points on a province, this is not mine, nor the first. Remember, there is more than just this 'us' forum. There is one for every language. Examples: 'en', 'es', 'de'.... etc

There are so many ideas, and great ones at that, that INNO is ignoring.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
Why are you reading it in an angry or embarrassed or defensive manner? Go back and read all but the last line calmly. The last line was feed exactly for a response you gave just to show that no body can always add feeling to a text post.

Also, why not respond to every part of my post? What about:

This is a huge problem in my world. They are killing the server every season. More and more people are just quitting.
We are also in need of better responses of than the usual. "Join a better guild", "get more players", etc etc etc.
We have 80 players, we are currently in the top diamond island. We didnt get here by not being good. However the gap between the top 2 guilds and the rest of the guilds on the server is so extreme, it is no longer fun. It is worse for us to be stuck with them than it is to be in platinum where we could actually use our attrition every day. Here we are denied from even getting 1/5 of it spent, slowing us even further while they gain even more. They do not destroy camps when taking each others provinces adding even more misery to everyone stuck with them.

Now read that with description, not anger nor any other negative emotion.

As for my suggestion in not showing other guilds points on a province, this is not mine, nor the first. Remember, there is more than just this 'us' forum. There is one for every language. Examples: 'en', 'es', 'de'.... etc

There are so many ideas, and great ones at that, that INNO is ignoring.
Any suggestion that this is driving people away from the game is merely anecdotal. Unless you've got real numbers, like Inno does, you're best to stay away from that argument entirely. My anecdotal information shows that since the introduction of GBG, due to the time GBG requires, players have been shutting down multiple cities to focus on just one.

That's what I did. Prior to GBG, I had 2 cities, after GBG was introduced, I found it just too time consuming to maintain 2 cities, so I abandoned on of them. To other players on that world, it may appear that I've left the game, but I've not. I simply left that world.

In regards to the basis of your complaint, we fully understand the issue, with most commenting having been on both sided of the reward farming issue. I also agree it's a problem. Unchecked greed run rampant. To me, the only way to address the issue and return GBG back to it's original intent is to remove the Diamonds and FPs from the personal rewards and add them to the chests instead.

GBG would once again be about getting the highest spot in the league possible to get the highest chest rewards. It would no longer be about locking everyone else off the map in order to maximize rewards for yourself, by denying rewards to others. Any other suggestion to fix the issue won't fix the issue because it doesn't address the issue that causes the behavior.

Personal rewards also seems to be the issue few want to address. Without addressing the root, any of the many suggestions is a fail. You can't fix the issue by dancing around the cause of the issue.

So in the absence of addressing the root cause, personal rewards, where does that leave you? With the suggestions that have already been given you. Join a better guild, or get more or better players so you can join the dance.
 

DeletedUser40143

More and more people leaving the game because of the problems with GBG.
If 100 of the top 160 players on a server are within 2 guilds and those 2 guilds swap back and forth provinces every 4 hours and let no one else get anything, they are driving players away from the server, if not from the game. INNO has chosen to do nothing. Soon those 2 guilds will have no one but themselves to fight against. The morale of players is falling and falling fast and yet, we sit here with the worst morally players widening the gap further and further. I hope INNO is listening.
There are many possible solutions to fix this. One of the simplest to test first is no longer show the total points of other besiegers. Only your guilds. No clue if someone else is attacking, how fast they are and if they are close to taking it before you. Camping at 159/160 between the 2 guilds wont be able to be done any longer. This is just one suggestion floating around. There are many others.
For those of you that think everything is just fine, you must be in that top 100 and do not know what its like on the other side for a player trying get better but is being denied by players like you.
You may now make your condescending replies.
Those are some pretty good ideas and I agree with Ctik's motivations GBG is devolving from what Inno originally intended.
 

The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
More and more people leaving the game because of the problems with GBG.
If something was happening to cause a drop in revenue in ANY area of the game INNO would definitely moved to do something about it. So that is not happening. But there is a problem with GBG and guilds behaving as RP has stated. Kudos to him for turning his back on them. We came up against that in 3 of the worlds I play in. We kept at it for a few seasons. Recently we discussed it and decided if those "farmers" want to work it they are welcome to it. So we no longer do GBG at all. But we did not(and will not) leave the game. Instead in one guild we went back to trying GvG OK no personal rewards, but so what..... we were getting next to nothing in GBG anyway. BUT more importantly we are back to having fun fighting with none of the frustrations of GBG. We have adapted GvG to what we want (fun) So are now considering doing the same in another guild. In the guilds where we still do GBG we take each season as it comes. If all the guilds are playing the game so do we. If there are bully boys who try the farming route. We take the one section so we get the points needed to be sure of an award then do no more.

P.S. We also decided that GBG as it is..... Is Definitely NOT worth depleting our treasury or personal inventories for. AND we would never be idiotic enough to spend ANY cash to buy diamonds or even use in-game diamonds on.
 
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DeletedUser40143

Also agree with Razor.. the root of the problem is the rewards I have tons of "anecdotes", don't need to see numbers to believe it's true people flock to guilds who can guarantee siege camps all day.

I remember reading Inno's original motivations of GBG. They said only 5% of players played GvG and they wanted something to work on mobile to get more involved. At the same time, I remember distinctly one of the developers even said the idea was not to have GBG something a player has to commit tons of time to. Attrition was supposed to self-limit people. I think if Inno removed all buildings (siege camps, traps, forts, etc.) it would be best. Guilds with the most active members would do well, as intended. It would be a joy. Players who have worked for a higher a/d would still have a greater impact. But alas, Inno needs its diamond spenders so I will never expect them to make such a move.
 

DeletedUser3485

Ok ....It don't matter how....but here we are now in a battle ground in which you cant win... --- Let's first accept that fact.

Now that you have accepted that...move on...understand what will happen next...

Worst case...you will finish last. --- Accept it...

What happens next?

You will be demoted to fight against guilds who have less League Points (LP) then you ...you can see the LP now in guild description

So next BG season you will again put to same test...which is are you stronger than the others...if not....accept it...you will be demoted again....this will happen over and over again till you find your level of guild who you can dominate or at-least compete.

That's the balance that Inno has built in to GbG, sooner you understand how LP works....you may start thinking...hold on...I dont think we want to be first this season...we maybe better off getting 3rd of 4th..etc etc..


Study this guide: https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-battlegrounds.27488/

Ask how stuff works...there are lot of folks will help you.
Again, you are missing the point. Which is why we are even being put into a battleground that is unwinnable? By your simplistic logic, your saying you get to keep sinking until you are matched up with guilds that you are able to evenly compete with. So, instead of using this method of futility and making people not interested in GBG, why not set it up like GE where it really is more balanced and competitive?
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
Again, you are missing the point. Which is why we are even being put into a battleground that is unwinnable? By your simplistic logic, your saying you get to keep sinking until you are matched up with guilds that you are able to evenly compete with. So, instead of using this method of futility and making people not interested in GBG, why not set it up like GE where it really is more balanced and competitive?

I am sorry but I find it very strange you actually call GE more balanced. In GE a Guild that has won 1st place 100 times in a row can be put in the same group as a Guild that has never won. How is that balanced? GE is only based on the number of Guild members. GBG is based on previous results. That you can still be placed in a battleground that is unwinnable is rather logic. Not everyone can win. There always has to be a 2nd, and a 3rd, and ......
 

DeletedUser3485

What SL said. You are just resurrecting the big guild vs little guild argument which already is a poor dead horse beaten to a pulp. As far as Inno working further on GvG, that horse has been buried, but you know that.
Just like GBG will get buried because it has created the same problem as GvG. No matter what your precious algorithm shows, in whatever week it is, a guild with a decided advantage of active members will win out and that is not competition, just an exercise in futility. Like this week, 3 guilds with 63,75 and 80 members basically shut down the map for all the other guilds because they were able to overwhelm the smaller guilds by sheer numbers of battles.
 

DeletedUser3485

I am sorry but I find it very strange you actually call GE more balanced. In GE a Guild that has won 1st place 100 times in a row can be put in the same group as a Guild that has never won. How is that balanced? GE is only based on the number of Guild members. GBG is based on previous results. That you can still be placed in a battleground that is unwinnable is rather logic. Not everyone can win. There always has to be a 2nd, and a 3rd, and ......
It is just as balanced as GBG is by the fact that it's guilds active participation that makes it competitive. Guilds that don't win in GE are because they don't bother trying, that is why they don't win. In GBG, my guild can bust it ass battling and still not have a prayer in hell of winning because there's other guilds with 10 times the active members doing the same thing. Again, it's not competition if there isn't any balance. Fortunately, the value of GBG is in the rewards for the battles, not the ego prize of claiming 1st.
 

DeletedUser36749

Tbh y’all complainers are clueless.
im in a top 10 guild in E. Nagach, and I get almost 10,000 fights per season....
if anyone else is on EN, they know that the top guild, recently formed, is complicated of 80 players all in the top 500 on the server..
however, they play ”friendly” and swap tiles and such with my and all the other guilds on the map, so all can get max fights,
if you aren’t creating alliances, and negotiating with other guilds, your doing it wrong in the first place...
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
It is just as balanced as GBG is by the fact that it's guilds active participation that makes it competitive. Guilds that don't win in GE are because they don't bother trying, that is why they don't win. In GBG, my guild can bust it ass battling and still not have a prayer in hell of winning because there's other guilds with 10 times the active members doing the same thing. Again, it's not competition if there isn't any balance. Fortunately, the value of GBG is in the rewards for the battles, not the ego prize of claiming 1st.

In both you can try your best. In both you can be matched with opponents that can beat you. GE is based on the number of guild members. Activity or win/lose has no influence at all. GBG is based on activity and results from the start. More balanced you can not get. I can understand that you are disappointed that your guild gets beat, but it isn't because GBG is not balanced.
 

DeletedUser11427

You fought hard and earned the right to play at the top. Congratulations!
I wonder if Events should be structured the same way....LoL...My membership in a strong vs a weak guild does not earn anything. I've seen some players mention their skill, which for the most part is non-existent. they just happen to be members of a power guild. Sometimes, they just don't have the courage, or as in this case, it may be impossible to excel .In some games, golf being one of them, there is a "handicap" allowing all players to compete evenly. I personally think GvG could be adjusted as well, for instance bringing back the "no troops needed" siege.
 

TotalTrash

Member
Yes, GBG is like your favorite sports team being forced to compete with other teams 2,3,4 times their size.

It is not fair at all, and it is killing smaller guilds. If a small guild cannot compete at the highest level, it cannot provide the best personal rewards for their members. Hence, they must either merge, or their players will leave and join big guilds instead. It is happening on all my servers right now.

It would take a decent programmer only few hours to link attrition to guild size, similar as the percentage progress is linked to guild size in GE, and level the playing field.

So, why are they not doing it? Because it is intentional!
Analogous to Henry Ford's famous quote "I'm not in the business of making cars, I'm in the business of making money", Inno is not in the business of making games, but in the business of making money. I know for a fact that metrics from other games have shown that players in larger guilds spend more money due to increased peer pressure. Inno has discovered that too, and we can't fault them for trying to make a buck! :)
 
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