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Global Cooling(oops) how about warming?

Discussion in 'Debate Hall' started by karmacanic, Jun 19, 2017.

?

Climate change or Extortion?

  1. Climate change

    22 vote(s)
    57.9%
  2. Extortion

    16 vote(s)
    42.1%
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  1. karmacanic

    karmacanic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    I grew up in the 60's & 70's & I remember all the experts & magazines telling us by the year 2000 The planet would "cool" off due to the "greenhouse" effect created by man made pollution to the point where we would have less area to grow food & shorter seasons to grow food to feed the incredible overpopulated planet & than we arrived at 2000 & ooops that didn't happen.
    So they devised another method stealing our money, "global warming", well that wasn't working either ,so it's now "climate change" these greedy bastards have come up with. The question I would ask is this.
    Who says that the temperature today is the base temperature for the planet? Maybe the earth needs to warm up 5, 10, or even 15 degrees to reach the optimum standard for habitability for all. I don't know , they don't know.
    One other question why would the two biggest polluters (India & China ) be exempt for 5(?) years & the USA where we have done a major turn around towards a cleaner enviorement wouldn't be exempt?
     
  2. Dursland

    Dursland I am Dursland Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    One only needs their own brain and eyes to see that the world is being profoundly affected by climate change.

    A very small example would be Hurricane Sandy. That kind of storm was unthinkable in the decades before but will be a more common occurence in the future.

    Heat records are being broken globally on a yearly basis at this point, and they have drone footage of polar ice erosion/break up.

    Basically the real crap that's waiting to hit the fan is all the ice that's currently on land (above water). Once the support melts away it will all slide into the ocean.

    You can observe what kind of effect this will have by taking a full glass of water at home and adding 20 ice cubes.

    In 2100 people will be mocking climate change deniers and vilifying those who helped propagate it, just like tobacco smoking+cancer in the last 50 years.
     
  3. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    A better poll would be:
    A) Do we do something about climate change?
    B) Are corporate profits more important than our future well-being?
    Those are the real choices.
     
  4. Konrad the mediocre

    Konrad the mediocre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    This is a false premise. There was little, if any, scientific consensus for global cooling. The conjecture might have been published in the popular press but they also published articles about bigfoot and Elvis sightings.

    If you're really interested in what science had to say in the 70s, check out this report by the National Academy of Sciences. While it noted there was a brief cooling trend, it was part of an overall warming trend. Here is an excerpt from the summary

    "A striking feature of the instrumental record is the behavior of temperature worldwide. As shown by Mitchell (1970), the average surface air temperature in the northern hemisphere increased from the 1880's until about 1940 and has been decreasing thereafter (see Figure A.6, Appendix A). Starr and Oort (1973) have reported that, during the period 1958-1963, the hemisphere's (mass-weighted) mean temperature decreased by about 0.6 °C. In that period the polar and subtropical arid regions experienced the greatest cooling. The cause of this variation is not known, although clearly this trend cannot continue indefinitely. It may represent a portion of a longer-period climatic oscillation, al- though statistical analysis of available records has failed to establish any significant periodic variation between the quasi-biennial cycle and periods of the order of 100 years. The corresponding patterns of precipitation, cloudiness, and snow cover have not been adequately deter- mined, and it would be of great interest to examine the simultaneous variations of oceanic heat storage and imbalances of the planetary radiation budget, once the necessary satellite observations become available.

    For the earlier instrumental period, there are scattered records of temperature, rainfall, and ice extent, which clearly show individual years and decades of anomalous character. The only apparent trend is a gradual warming in the European area since the so-called Little Ice Age of the sixteenth to nineteenth centuries."
     
  5. karmacanic

    karmacanic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Konrad, good point. What I was intending to point out (poorly I guess) is that the man made climate change issue is not about facts, it's a fear based scam to redistribute wealth & to destroy capitalism (the USA). The USA is the greatest impediment to those that want complete control of everyone's lives.
    As goverment exspands, liberty contracts. ie; when the Empire state building was built , it took 1 year & it is the same for many "great buildings" from the past, it would probably take more than a year just to do the enviromental impact report on the Empire state bldng. & god knows how long to get permitted & than actually builing it w/ all the regulations. I could go on but I will not. Good day
     
  6. karmacanic

    karmacanic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Dursland & Stephan, I should ask you this from my original comment. Why or how is it that the current (or not to distant past) is the accepted standard for the climate.
    I've heard climate scientist speak about losing funding because they would not back up the agenda.
    Also I've read where they have found Alligator fossils in Canada, & Viking graveyards under the perma frost in Greenland, where many Vikings settled in so that they could farm.
    In closing when you take into account that the Sun occupies 95% of the mass in our solar system & that it is 11 million degrees, it & it alone may be the culprit. Some guy landed on the Sun during the night to take it's temperature.hehehe.
     
    Zatrikon likes this.
  7. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Yes, I go to church with people that believe everything they hear that supposedly "disproves" climate change. For the same reason that you do, because it fits their agenda. Although, I must say, this is the first time I've heard the Sun blamed for climate change.
     
  8. Konrad the mediocre

    Konrad the mediocre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    So you think the vast amoiunt of scientific evidence is a scam and not based on facts. What facts support your conclusion other than random things you heard from unnamed sources?

    I'm bkorn and raised in NYC so I'm aware of the history of the empire state building. Believe me, we're always grumbling about how slow things move now due to increased government regulation. That said, I prefer clean air and water over polluted air and water. Sometimes people need to be accountable for decisions that impact others.

    I've read about alligators in nyc sewers too. I'm not sure what they or viking graveyards has to do with anything. The sun itself has little if anything to do with climate change as its output (around 4*10^26 watts) varies over millions and billions of years, not decades. There are plenty of natural causes of climate changes (volcanic eruptions) but you can't wish away ~35 billion tons of annual CO2 emissions and pretend it has no impact. Well, I suppose you can if you're just trolling.
     
  9. Lord Muggle

    Lord Muggle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Where'd you get 11 million from, firstly. Secondly, climate change exists. That is a fact, go to https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ .
     
  10. Manda the first

    Manda the first Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2016
    This 'facts are opinions' 'alternative news' garbage just needs to stop.

    Having an opinion about something does not counter the facts about something. The overwhelming vast majority of scientists are not lying to you, the ones on the payroll of the oil companies are. Your arguments are so baseless it's baffling. You've provided no evidence but things you've 'heard about'.

    "Hey umm this one time, I heard about this guy who dug up an alligator in a place there like totally wasn't supposed to be an alligator so take that troves and troves of scientific data!"

    Climate change is real, the earth is round, dinosaurs existed, we evolved from apes, vaccines don't give you autism and Hillary wasn't running a child sex ring out of a pizza shop.

    The sooner we can all recognize the difference between fact and opinion, between truth and someone trying to sell cars, the quicker we can get this country back on track.
     
  11. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Absolutely correct. (Well, except for the "evolved from apes" part. That's actually a theory, not a fact.)
     
  12. Dursland

    Dursland I am Dursland Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Yeah the first human hatched from a dinosaur egg. Everybody knows this.
     
    KungQu likes this.
  13. Konrad the mediocre

    Konrad the mediocre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Well, humans didn't evolve from apes (or monkeys) - they just had a common ancestor.
     
    Titris Thrawns and rhyyss like this.
  14. Dursland

    Dursland I am Dursland Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    1) We emerged from a garden-like paradise thousands of years ago in our current state/form.

    2) We hatched from dinosaur eggs.

    3) We share an ancestry with apes, or may have even evolved from them directly.

    Which one is correct? I'll take Occam's Razor for 500 alex.
     
  15. Dursland

    Dursland I am Dursland Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Here's a small sample of "scientific evidence" as you put it:

    "Heatwaves have also claimed victims more recently. In the last two weeks, dozens have died in India and Pakistan’s current heatwave, with temperatures spiking to a record 128 degrees Fahrenheit (53.5 degrees Celsius). And there have been heat-related deaths already in the U.S. this summer."

    From National Geographic: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/06/heatwaves-climate-change-global-warming
     
  16. Mustapha00

    Mustapha00 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    If 'climate change' is human-caused, please explain why it was warmer during the Minoan Warming Period, the Roman Warming Period and the Medieval Warming Period absent the existence of sports utility vehicles.
     
    Zatrikon likes this.
  17. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Since the thermometer wasn't even invented until the 17th Century A.D., whether it was warmer in those periods than now is purely conjecture.
     
    snake11s likes this.
  18. Konrad the mediocre

    Konrad the mediocre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    I wouldn't say it's conjecture since historic global temperature is based on evidence (I can't say I ever heard of the minoan warming period but I'm no expert by any means). However, that question is based on faulty logic and motivated reasoning. Short term temperatures can vary for a number of reasons (eg volcanic activity). However, there is a direct correlation between CO2 levels in the atmosphere and warming trends. It's hard to ignore 35 billion tons of annual CO2 emissions by humans when the total CO2 level in the atmosphere is roughly 3 trillion tons.
     
  19. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Based on evidence, yes, but evidence interpreted with pre-conceived assumptions.
     
  20. karmacanic

    karmacanic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    I'm not blaming man for climate change & yes the sun has a direct effect on our climate, don't you think the climate would change if the sun went dark? I don't know what church has to do w/ this subject.
    I'm wondering when we will be told that we can use this man made climate change to make Mars a warm cozy place to move to?
     

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