Goods: A case AGAINST Dresden and Royal Albert Hall

[DeletedUser27849]

True not if you're in af or of. But in those ages 2.7k happiness isn't worth much so I still don't see the value of a level 1 traz.

If your waiting until your AF/OF to raise the Traz then you missed your chance when you should be raising the Traz at minimum when you are in HMA. So your statement really didn't make much sense.

 

[DeletedUser27849]

If you are self leveling your GB's then yes I can see the argument, but I don't self level my GB's. Now there are numerous ways to get those forge points, through swaps which in return you can obtain rewards from others GB's. Which is why you want the ARC to enhance the rewards.

If you watch some of the highest level players they have it down like a science. The work with each other in leveling each others building, locking in the top 2 spots by doing a one time forge point dump on the building. Which when your in the top spot on high level TRAZ and ARC's gives a very nice payout in Forge points and Medals and you having a high level ARC then can double that amount. Once they are locked in then the player uses their guilds swaps to finish it off and then it starts all over again.

Depending on how much a player can produce in forge points a day depends on how fast they can level up their buildings. Currently I am producing around 75 a day. So I can sit in an ERA for awhile and make that a priority is to level up my buildings using my guilds swap.

 

[DeletedUser]

So right now, I'm trying to figure out why you think your response contradicts what you quoted. Your response is a non-sequitur. Are you following this conversation?

Konrad: "A level 1 traz is a waste as is a level 1 hagia. A level 15 traz is not a waste of space and neither is a level 15 hagia."

Deepdiver6: "Where I will disagree is about a level 1 Traz, the happiness alone allows you not having to build the Coliseum and with the 5 unattached units a day means I can delete all my barracks except for 1." (note: level 1 traz does not give 5 units daily)

Me: "I'd rather build military barracks than have a level 1 Traz."

You: "Thing is, you gotta have a level 1 traz to get a level 15 traz."


What?

You seriously don't understand his point? That it's silly to argue against a level 1 Traz, but for a level 15 Traz? Unless you actually believe that someone would go to the trouble of gathering the BPs and goods, and making room for a Traz, only to then leave it at level 1. I mean, seriously! Even if someone wanted to leave it at level 1, other players wanting their own would level it just for the BPs.

 

[DeletedUser13838]

If your waiting until your AF/OF to raise the Traz then you missed your chance when you should be raising the Traz at minimum when you are in HMA. So your statement really didn't make much sense.

I replied to your comment that implied the 24 unattached units you get from 3 levels of GE aren't useful in GVG. That's only the case if you're in AF or OF (though even then that's not strictly true). If you're talking about earlier ages then I have no idea what your comment about GVG means.

You seriously don't understand his point? That it's silly to argue against a level 1 Traz, but for a level 15 Traz? Unless you actually believe that someone would go to the trouble of gathering the BPs and goods, and making room for a Traz, only to then leave it at level 1. I mean, seriously! Even if someone wanted to leave it at level 1, other players wanting their own would level it just for the BPs.

My comment about level 1 vs level 15 was in response to deepdiver's intiial claim that hagia is a waste of space and his later comment that a 1 traz is not.

If you are self leveling your GB's then yes I can see the argument, but I don't self level my GB's. Now there are numerous ways to get those forge points, through swaps which in return you can obtain rewards from others GB's. Which is why you want the ARC to enhance the rewards.

If you watch some of the highest level players they have it down like a science. The work with each other in leveling each others building, locking in the top 2 spots by doing a one time forge point dump on the building. Which when your in the top spot on high level TRAZ and ARC's gives a very nice payout in Forge points and Medals and you having a high level ARC then can double that amount. Once they are locked in then the player uses their guilds swaps to finish it off and then it starts all over again.

Depending on how much a player can produce in forge points a day depends on how fast they can level up their buildings. Currently I am producing around 75 a day. So I can sit in an ERA for awhile and make that a priority is to level up my buildings using my guilds swap.

Self leveling has nothing to do with this discussion BTW, if you have a high enough level arc and you're leveling high level GBs then you can be better off self-leveling anyway. It's not usually through swaps that arcs are finished off. That's a discussion for a different thread.

 

[DeletedUser27849]

I replied to your comment that implied the 24 unattached units you get from 3 levels of GE aren't useful in GVG. That's only the case if you're in AF or OF (though even then that's not strictly true). If you're talking about earlier ages then I have no idea what your comment about GVG means.

My comment about earlier ages and GVG is that if you want to participate in GVG you can save yourself space, coins, and supplies by building a Traz. This will allow you to get rid all of your Barracks and just have the 1 or 2 you might need. Plus with the Happiness that the Traz gives you can delete the Coliseum. Not having all the barracks also allows you to delete houses that are not needed. I can use the Traz to stockpile troops in the ERA's that I so desire plus Rogues and not have to have barracks from each ERA to support GVG.

Again spending the amount of forge points it will cost to level up the Hagia to even become viable, I can spend those forge points to level up something else that is going to improve my city better.

 

[DeletedUser26532]

Interesting analysis. Well written, thought provoking. I look forward to more posts from you.

I ran all 5 in ProgE. My Guildies loved me because combined with 3 MP and 2 Exp factories I was ablt ro provide the goods for Reaz avery 2 weeks,

Now in CE a new generation of Guildies love me for being able to provide Traz Goods again, COmbined with 15 WWs, I average 220 Goods per day.

25 Traz 10 Chateau and counting.

This has been a huge bonus since I hit CE.

I even have a global offer in S-world to trade PE goods for FP, and my GBs have gotten a few extra levels while new players have gotten fast Traz/Chateau bilds.

 

[Algona]

I would rather have the Traz and FOD, the Hagia is waste of space for what little you get.

I was gonna reply to this yesterday, went to bed instead. I knew what was gonna happen And it did.

Hagia is the best designed GB in the game. INNO hit it out of the park on this one. Not because Hagia is good, it's because so many good players strongly disagree about it. That is the mark of great game design.

Anyone who knows what they are doing isn't going to build a traz and leave it at level one.

I built mine over a month ago and it's still level one. Wait, my mistake, you said players who know what they are doing...

This has been a huge bonus since I hit CE.

I even have a global offer in S-world to trade PE goods for FP, and my GBs have gotten a few extra levels while new players have gotten fast Traz/Chateau bilds.

I didn't tell you the kicker. When I was in ProgE I sold the traz Goods to Guildies for 35 (thirty five) FP. Now in CE I tripled the price to a whopping 100 FP. So greedy....

As i said, my Guildies love me.

Come visit Unce Al's Used FP and Goods Emporioum. No job too small, no fee too high. Just off the Mount Killmore Exit.

 

[ITown]

If your waiting until your AF/OF to raise the Traz then you missed your chance when you should be raising the Traz at minimum when you are in HMA. So your statement really didn't make much sense.

Traz is a waste of space before PE. Building it in HMA is a bad idea because it uses up too large a fraction of your city.

The way to analyze the value of traz is to evaluate what it replaces.

Alcatraz gives happiness and units. Therefore it replaces barracks and cultural buildings.

2700 happiness is worse than 3 HMA churches (27 tiles).

4 daily units is basically like having 1 free barracks producing 4 units daily (9 tiles). Or in the case of rogues, it's worth 4 rogue hideouts (24 tiles).

So at best, Alcatraz is worth about 50 tiles in HMA at level 1.

 

[Algona]

Traz is a waste of space before PE.

Sorry boss. Face value your analysis looks pretty good, but you missed some critical details.

I gained space in my EMA city with Traz. I tore down all happiness junk (4 markets, 40 tiles, don't forget the road connection!) and 4 of 7 barracks (1 AI, 2 Cat, 1 Archer, 34 tiles), Traz takes 71. (Hold off the troops thing, I'll get there,)

Does it matter that Friends, Neighbors, and Guildies drop FPs on my Traz even without swapping? No one see,s to do that for my barracks or markets...

Speaking of Friends dropping stuff, 3(4) churches(markets) suck down 6(8) Aids a day. I sure hope they are all polished when it's time to collect. But with the lower Era 4 or 8 hour housing? I'd rather have more doubled productions and fewer plunder targets.

You completely missed on the Troops thing. Each week my total number of troops, especially Rogues(!), rises more then just what I make from GE and each week I am fighting further in GE then ever before. Here's why:

Sooner or later many players reach a point during the week where we aren't fighting. I grind to a halt in GE on Friday, I hardly PvP, I don't GvG. I wouldn't be surprised if many lower Era players are similar.

What happens on those 3 idle days?

The troops in barracks suck down population, wander off for an occasional PvP, visit the churches(markets) I guess, and don't produce more troops.

Traz keeps spawning 4 more troops on those idle days.

 

[DeletedUser]

Traz is a waste of space before PE.

Absolutely wrong. Traz + 1 Rogue Hideout + GE = Zero other military barracks. And that combination will allow you to dominate in GE and PvP, assuming you have the other military GBs. Every. Single. Week. And the most deadly combination, at least until you get to PME with the MG Team, is 1 Howitzer/7 Rogues in Industrial. Almost unbeatable. And that translates into free goods, coins, supplies, buildings, FPs and so on, every week in GE.

 

[DeletedUser27184]

Absolutely wrong. Traz + 1 Rogue Hideout + GE = Zero other military barracks. And that combination will allow you to dominate in GE and PvP, assuming you have the other military GBs. Every. Single. Week. And the most deadly combination, at least until you get to PME with the MG Team, is 1 Howitzer/7 Rogues in Industrial. Almost unbeatable. And that translates into free goods, coins, supplies, buildings, FPs and so on, every week in GE.

This.

 

[DeletedUser27849]

Traz is a waste of space before PE. Building it in HMA is a bad idea because it uses up too large a fraction of your city.

The way to analyze the value of traz is to evaluate what it replaces.

Alcatraz gives happiness and units. Therefore it replaces barracks and cultural buildings.

2700 happiness is worse than 3 HMA churches (27 tiles).

4 daily units is basically like having 1 free barracks producing 4 units daily (9 tiles). Or in the case of rogues, it's worth 4 rogue hideouts (24 tiles).

So at best, Alcatraz is worth about 50 tiles in HMA at level 1.

Have to agree with the others you completely missed critical details. In both of my worlds I GVG so the Traz is crucial to my game, plus again if you leave it at level 1 then you really missed it. I am still in LMA with a level 7 (almost 8) Traz so 1 barracks is all I need. For me it is all about stockpiling troops for each ERA I can fight in and in the future help defend when I move up. I can GVG, GE and even attack the entire neighborhood and won't lose the amount of units it produce. For GE I can pretty much do all 48 encounters without negotiating. The space I opened up by having the Traz and getting rid of the Haigia and Babel opened up the space for other items like fountain of youths, tiger dens, and other valuable event buildings. In one city I don't have any goods buildings and 1 production building so I have saved a lot of space and on population and happiness.

The concept of GB is for each player to pick and choose which one is best for their city and play style. Unless you plan on buying every expansion slot on the map I think it would be impossible to have them all.

 

[DeletedUser26154]

FoD and RAH are not what I consider "Essential".
They are very useful, as both produce free Unrefined Goods, and one boosts Supply.
Excellent to have both once you are in or beyond Modern Era.
You can find more efficient uses for the space.



If you have the room, get them both when you can afford to.

 

[DeletedUser26532]

I didn't tell you the kicker. When I was in ProgE I sold the traz Goods to Guildies for 35 (thirty five) FP. Now in CE I tripled the price to a whopping 100 FP. So greedy....

As i said, my Guildies love me.

Come visit Unce Al's Used FP and Goods Emporioum. No job too small, no fee too high. Just off the Mount Killmore Exit.

You sir are a generous man.

I am a greedy dick.

And I'm perfectly OK with that

Absolutely wrong. Traz + 1 Rogue Hideout + GE = Zero other military barracks. And that combination will allow you to dominate in GE and PvP, assuming you have the other military GBs. Every. Single. Week. And the most deadly combination, at least until you get to PME with the MG Team, is 1 Howitzer/7 Rogues in Industrial. Almost unbeatable. And that translates into free goods, coins, supplies, buildings, FPs and so on, every week in GE.

THIS^

I haven't had a military barracks since early Colonial age other than a rogue hideout and (starting in PME) a Champ retreat. Haven't needed any.

 

[ITown]

Absolutely wrong. Traz + 1 Rogue Hideout + GE = Zero other military barracks. And that combination will allow you to dominate in GE and PvP, assuming you have the other military GBs. Every. Single. Week. And the most deadly combination, at least until you get to PME with the MG Team, is 1 Howitzer/7 Rogues in Industrial. Almost unbeatable. And that translates into free goods, coins, supplies, buildings, FPs and so on, every week in GE.

So the mistake you made here is assuming that alcatraz is necessary to accomplish what you described. It isn't. With a temple of relics and no Alcatraz, I was able to accomplish what you described in this post.

In earlier ages, it is nearly impossible to lose rogues if you know how to fight.

 

[ITown]

What happens on those 3 idle days?

The troops in barracks suck down population, wander off for an occasional PvP, visit the churches(markets) I guess, and don't produce more troops.

Traz keeps spawning 4 more troops on those idle days.

I agree that Traz keeps producing units. But to answer for myself, I tend to fight on the continent map on off-days.

 

[DeletedUser]

So the mistake you made here is assuming that alcatraz is necessary to accomplish what you described. It isn't. With a temple of relics and no Alcatraz, I was able to accomplish what you described in this post.

In earlier ages, it is nearly impossible to lose rogues if you know how to fight.

Sure it's necessary. The ToR in no way replaces the Traz, as you suggest here that it could, and you couldn't do that with one Rogue Hideout. So now you're trying to replace the Traz with multiple Rogue Hideouts, and hoping that you get more unattached Rogues from the ToR relics. Very speculative. And you do lose the odd Rogue, even in Industrial, if you battle a lot. Which I did. I never had to wait for a Rogue to retrain after losing one. In fact, I never had to wait even if I accidentally hit auto battle and lost 7!

And your statement that in early ages (define: early) it is nearly impossible to lose Rogues if you know how to fight is one of those impossible-to-prove, I'm-better-than-you, passive-aggressive statements that accomplishes nothing but giving you a false sense of superiority over us "average" players.

 

[DeletedUser27849]

So the mistake you made here is assuming that alcatraz is necessary to accomplish what you described. It isn't. With a temple of relics and no Alcatraz, I was able to accomplish what you described in this post.

In earlier ages, it is nearly impossible to lose rogues if you know how to fight.

You are assuming that the you are going to obtain relics giving rogues each week, which would never happen.

 

[DeletedUser13838]

My comment about earlier ages and GVG is that if you want to participate in GVG you can save yourself space, coins, and supplies by building a Traz. This will allow you to get rid all of your Barracks and just have the 1 or 2 you might need. Plus with the Happiness that the Traz gives you can delete the Coliseum. Not having all the barracks also allows you to delete houses that are not needed. I can use the Traz to stockpile troops in the ERA's that I so desire plus Rogues and not have to have barracks from each ERA to support GVG.

You never need to build the colosseum so I don't understand your point. And you talk about saving a tiny number of coins by not buying units in barracks and then say you would delete housing?

Again spending the amount of forge points it will cost to level up the Hagia to even become viable, I can spend those forge points to level up something else that is going to improve my city better.

I already posted my analysis for 2 GBs. Why don't you actually show me your analysis that makes you think Im wrong?

 

[Algona]

With a temple of relics and no Alcatraz,

Jeez, I feel like i'm piling on but doesn't that sort of undercut your argument about space?

Hmmm. Maybe not? TI think it does, but.... Thats a fun question, gotta ponder it but I'll ask here as well:

A genie appears before you and grants you the choice of one to build in your Iron Age city ToR or Traz, which would you pick and why?