DeletedUser26120
I see it now, it really blends in there lol.
I am of the opinion that such GBs (and actually almost all GBs) should be judged on their primary benefit (coin % boost , supply % boost, attack%) and not on the secondary benefit,
And if conventional goods buildings are not needed from ME onwards, these makes the unrefined goods produced by the GBs useless.
So, first of all, GBs should be evaluated on all aspects, not just one. And who decides which is the primary benefit and which is the secondary?
That is not true at all. I am in CE in my main world, and I produce lots of Progressive goods that I can make available to lower era guildmates and friends. That in turn benefits me, either directly from FP donations they make in exchange, or indirectly by being in a stronger guild or having stronger friends.
While I dispute her view of GBs, I actually share her view on special/event buildings supplying current era goods. I have not one goods building in my CE city, yet I have lots of CE goods, due to Tribal Squares and such. Not only do I have over 1000 each of Progressive goods from my GBs, I also have over 1000 each CE goods (even after donating 1200 for the event) from my special/event buildings. Generally non-plunderable because they have to be motivated in order to produce the goods.I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the path Lady E follows, but it's not the only path.
Groupthink much? As I was reading Lady E's post I was thinking pretty much the same things Stephen. Lady E and I disagree on how to evaluate GBs and how to best make Goods. I expereimented with Special Event Buildings as my primary source of Goods, I didn't like it. Othere love it, and I'm fine with that. I'll be curious to see how they feel a couple Eras from now.
I like to produce LOTS of specific Goods. I'm not a fan of depending on trading. I like to minimize Aid and plunder targets in my city. Event Buildings don't produce the Goods in the quantitity or of the type I want, they soak up Aids, and/or can be plundered. Should I ever decide to get really sicko perved out, some day I may power level SMB or RAH. Hard to do that with a Special Event Building.
I'm CE also and my goal is churning out a Traz every week. I'd never get there w/o 5 Goods GBs spewing out 160 Unrefined Goods per day. When I switch to selling Inno Tower Goods I'll still be wanting those unrefined Goods to support my CE Goods buildings.
When (if? CE is such fun!) I move up in Era I won't have to do a thing to get the unrefined Goods for the that Era, boom, 160 Goods per day. I'd rather build current Era Goods buildings the day I enter the new Era then burn RKs ane 1Ups or wait to win stuff in GE.
So, first of all, GBs should be evaluated on all aspects, not just one. And who decides which is the primary benefit and which is the secondary?
That is not true at all. I am in CE in my main world, and I produce lots of Progressive goods that I can make available to lower era guildmates and friends. That in turn benefits me, either directly from FP donations they make in exchange, or indirectly by being in a stronger guild or having stronger friends.
Just popping in to say yes I think you need both RAH and LoA. Supply buildings give so little, really.
Even if you have a lot of them and are quest looping then both is still useful as it'll increase your amounts for the 'collect X supplies' quest. You won't run out of bonuses often since that's 24h production.
I am constantly amazed at the fact that anytime someone does an "analysis" of the RAH, they completely ignore the goods it provides. In the above examples, a level 10 RAH provides 27 goods up to Progressive, and 54 unrefined goods thereafter. The 27 goods would be equal to between 2 and 5 extra quests per day, the range going from no CF to a level 10 CF.In the early ages (up to CA) you can do more recurring quests by having production buildings in the space that RAH would occupy.
42 tiles is 7 alchemists or 7 clockmakers ie 3.5 quests. RAH levl 10 will increase supplies (assuming enthusiasm and everything motivated) by 43%. In CA with only LoA level 10, you need to collect from 13 clockmakers to complete one 'gather 110,000 supplies'
By adding a lvl 10 RAH, you would need to collect from only 8 clockmakers to complete one 'gather 110,000 supplies'. But because the vast majority of quests are done via the collect 2x24hr productions rather the "gather x supplies", and as you see from the numbers above, it is doubtful that adding RAH would enable you to do more quests.
But out of curiosity I did the math. If in CA you have say 70 clockmakers (and Level 10 LoA), and you replace 7 of them by a RAH (level 10), you will end up doing a similar amount of quests in total (taking into account in that the first case only 40 collections will be boosted by LoA level 10, and in the 2nd case the first 40 will be boosted by both (345% boost total from GBs), and the remaining only by RAH.
I even took into account that 7 clockmakers need more roads than 1 RAH, so added an extra clockmaker in the RAH scenario.
LoA Only
Collect 2x24 hr production: 35 quests/day
Gather x supplies: 3.2 quests/day
Total: 39.2 quests/day
LoA + RAH
Collect 2x24 hr production: 32 quests/day
Gather x supplies: 7.7 quests/day
Total: 39.7 quests/day
So you 'gain' half a quest per day (after having spent 3,860 FP to get RAH to level 10). Essentially, in rough numbers, you do 3 "more gather X supplies" quests, but you do 3 "less collect 2x24hr production", so you end up where you started. So the numbers do not support your argument. Let alone the time and effort to level up RAH. And you need it to level 10 to gain the half quest per day. At level 9 you just break even (39.3 quests per day), and at level 8 you are doing slightly worse (39 quests per day).
After CA you can do very few recurring quests anyway. And true that RAH would enable you to do more 'gather X supplies' quests than without it, but the difference is miniscule (as the X in "gather X supplies" rises too steeply with each successive era)
For IndA, say you have 70 gunsmiths (do not know if anyone builds that many, as the last age where looping quests are efficient is CA). Then LoA lvl10 only vs LoA + RAH lvl10 give the same amount of total quests per day 38.6
In the 1st case 35+3.6 quests per day
In the 2nd case 32+6.6 quests per day
Again what you gain from doing more gather X supplies, you loose by doing fewer gather 2x24hr collections
And lets say you have only 40 gunsmiths (more realistic), then you are doing 1 quest less per day by replacing some gunsmiths with the RAH (22.7 vs 21.7 with RAH).
Finally I checked this for ME (just to have an idea what the numbers look like in later ages)
Say you have 30 hatters with no RAH, or 26 Hatters with RAH. Again you end up with similar number of quests: 17 without RAH vs 16.4 with RAH (level 10). So it seems the same holds in later ages: the quests you gain by doing more gather X supplies, you loose by doing fewer collect 2x24hr productions.
So RAH helps to produce supplies faster, but does not help to do more recurring quests, as the 'gather X supplies' is a moving goalpost and keeps rising in each age (rises too fast for RAH to be of benefit in doing recurring quests).
Also the argument can be turned on its head: IF one wants to build the RAH in order to increase their supplies, then the numbers above show that they can do so and they will not have suffer a disadvantage by doing less 2x24hr quests, as the 'gather X coins' quest will make up for the lost '2x24 hr productions' quests. So as far as supply related recurring quests are concerned, RAH (at level 10) is neutral. You just produce more supplies in absolute terms by having it.
I think RAH is not needed (and does not fit in the limited space) in early eras. And from what I hear from players in the very late eras they are sitting on gazillions of coins/supplies/medals/goods. And with coins you can at least buy FP. There is nothing to do with the supplies. So I think RAH is useful only in the middle eras. But to build it (say sometime after IndA), level it, and then later delete it, seems a waste. Also there is a specific (very high) number of supplies you need, just to to do all the tech. The total number of supplies you produce = rate at which you produce them x time during which you produce them. RAH (as well as number of production buildings) affect the 1st parameter. But there is also the 'time' parameter to consider. You can produce the same number of supplies without RAH (or even without LoA, and/or few production buildings). It will just take longer. So it depends how fast you want to progress through the eras. If you are content to go at a leisurely pace, there is no need for RAH. If want to go a bit faster, then you build it. So it is up to personal preferences/playing style. For myself I am in no hurry to progress though the eras as I sit at each age to level off GBs, so I do not need it. (at the end of CA I currently have enough supplies for the tech of the next 6 eras plus 18 million change). For others it may be useful. As long as it is built for the right reasons (to increase the rate of supply production; and not in order to enable one to do more more recurring quests because that is not the case. And of course some players may like the goods it provides, but here I am responding to the supply boost argument, and the assertion that that it allows you to do more recurring quests by doing more "collect X supplies" ).
Btw there may be another scenario where RAH is useful, even when one progresses slowly and is not in a hurry to produce supplies for tech (and building expenses/goods production). I have a level10 chateau which has been very useful up to now (CA), but as I will be moving on from CA soon, its days of being very useful are ending (can do much fewer quest from IndA onwards). I will not delete it as that seems a waste of investment and still has some limited use in story/side/event/handful of recurring quests. But I was debating whether it is worth levelling higher. The more quests you do the more useful it is and the more worthwhile levelling it. The only quest one can do a lot of times at least in principle, is the unbirthday quest; but it is very expensive (again cost rises disproportionately with each successive age). But the chateau can bring down the net cost somewhat, by increasing the coins/supplies rewards. It is still very expensive and the limiting factor is the supplies rather than coins. So I was debating whether to build the RAH, which will give me more supplies, and then I can throw these additional supplies to the unbirthday quest. But I have done some preliminary calculations and the numbers do not look very appealing. I guess I will just have to wait until I reach AF/OF where from what I hear one can do recurring quests with blacksmiths. Although by the time I get there Inno will likely have changed this (if they haven't already).
I am constantly amazed at the fact that anytime someone does an "analysis" of the RAH, they completely ignore the goods it provides. In the above examples, a level 10 RAH provides 27 goods up to Progressive, and 54 unrefined goods thereafter. The 27 goods would be equal to between 2 and 5 extra quests per day, the range going from no CF to a level 10 CF.
And the goods production of the RAH is on top of everything else, also. To ignore part of its production in an analysis like this is to skew the data in your favor. The production of the RAH doesn't disappear just because you want it to, and it isn't limited to just the supply boost, even if that's the only part of its benefits that suits your storyline. And it's not comparing apples to oranges, because goods is one of the rewards from recurring quests. That's apples to apples by any standard.And I am not at all amazed that people constantly comment on posts they have failed to read properly. I was specifically replying to a post that asserted that RAH allows one to do more recurring quests in total by doing more 'gather x supplies'. My post was not an analysis on RAH, but an analysis on how its supply boost affects recurring quests, as I was responding to a post on this specific topic. I even said so. I even clarified that some people build the RAH for the goods, but that I am specifically talking about the supply boost.
Converting the RAH goods to recurring quest rewards equivalents is comparing apples with oranges. Recurring quests rewards are on top of everything else you get by any other means. Else people can argue, that there is no need to do recurring quests to get medals, as they get medals from PvP. Or that they do not need the goods from recurring quests because they are producing goods from goods buildings, plunder them or get them from GBs.The point is the recurring quests rewards in addition to what gain/produce by any other means. Also in both scenarios we have LoA that also produces goods. We do not add the LoA goods as extra quests that gave goods.
In the early ages (up to CA) you can do more recurring quests by having production buildings in the space that RAH would occupy.I even took into account that 7 clockmakers need more roads than 1 RAH, so added an extra clockmaker in the RAH scenario..
This is not the heavy questing thread, please confine your propaganda to that thread. Thanks.CF is by far the best good GB in CA and below. I can't talk for future ages because I am not experienced there.
https://gyazo.com/b56168402c7de51113d761aca8022c9f
You forgot to account for the housing though (unless you are considering the scenario in which you have an inno tower).
Anyways, the conclusions from my calculations are the same you reach in yours. In some situations RAH increases the amount of daily quests, but the FP required to bring RAH to lvl 10 are better spend in other GB.
I also thought about leveling CF past lvl 10. The approach I took (and recommend) is to convert all rewards into fp, goods and medals. In other words:
1-Draw a probability table for each reward (I took the data from CR thread, I don't know how accurate it is)
2- Reinvest all coins/supplies packages into more coints supplies. You can consider only the limiting resource, or consider both (to check the "stored" quest you are doing).
3-Make a loop following 2 until it is over.
Note: if you are past HMA, the calculations are a bit longer because you need to account for each UBQ assisting the "collect supplies" quest.
This way you can calculate what do you get from getting CF past 10. My conclusions are that it is not worth it for CA and lower, but it might be good in later ages, if you need more goods (every 4 lvls of CF each quest gives you 1 more good).
CF is by far the best good GB in CA and below.
Dammit, my Chateau has a bug! All i get when I click on it is Coins.
Get out of here with that voodoo crapAnd when you click on the arc you get guild goods, but no FP packs?
If you don't want to talk about questing here, fair enough. I only wanted to mention that for CA and lower there is absolutely 0 reason to build a traditional good building (supporting the original statement in this thread, althought in a different way).