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Great Building Contest - Major Disappointment

DeletedUser

This will be a first for me. I have to say I'm extremely disappointed, if not just a tad bit offended. From electricity, the telephone, computers, automobiles, space travel and on and on, the United States and its people have contributed more to the Era of Progress than any other country in the world. And what's the best building the devs could come up with to represent the countless areas of technology coming out of the United States? A PRISON?
:hmph:
 
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DeletedUser4744

I am with you it was to be a Great Building that the Game didn't have. We have Churches and they pick more Churches and what do we need with a prison on this game? The collage was a good one that they picked but i was big. I was happy with that it was something that we didn't have in the game. We have houses in the game. I would have liked to see Electricty or telephone or anything but a prison. I think that the 6 that they pick was not up to what I was think the Great Building Contest was all about.
 

DeletedUser2382

I'm guessing maybe they didn't want to deal with the 500+ players who all would claim they were the one to first suggest Statue of Liberty or Eiffel Tower, lol. Honestly, I kind of like how they went with buildings that were somewhat more obscure, but still lodged into legend.
 

DeletedUser34

I agree. Computer technology is a brainchild of the US is a good example of something the US contributed to the world as a whole. We have arts and we have so much more than a prison to be our claim to fame on the world front. I hope it wasn't our personal Mod staff who made that list. If it was, I must say, it is rather disingenuous....just saying.
 

DeletedUser

I agree. Computer technology is a brainchild of the US is a good example of something the US contributed to the world as a whole. We have arts and we have so much more than a prison to be our claim to fame on the world front. I hope it wasn't our personal Mod staff who made that list. If it was, I must say, it is rather disingenuous....just saying.

Not sure that I would agree with computer technology being solely a brainchild of the US and something contributed to the world. The US certainly improved wholesale and capitalised on early inventions in leaps and bounds. The first programmable personal computer developed by a German and a British Scientist working for CERN, Tim Berners Lee, who developed the World Wide Web and gave it free to the world. I gather e-mail developed from US military. The US is particularly good at prisons though.
 

DeletedUser34

Not sure that I would agree with computer technology being solely a brainchild of the US and something contributed to the world. The US certainly improved wholesale and capitalised on early inventions in leaps and bounds. The first programmable personal computer developed by a German and a British Scientist working for CERN, Tim Berners Lee, who developed the World Wide Web and gave it free to the world. I gather e-mail developed from US military. The US is particularly good at prisons though.
It is ok. :D
I will let you be wrong.
History of the Internet
 

DeletedUser

I will let the US claim it, based on other peoples initial ingenuity it usually does.
 

DeletedUser34

well isn't that just nice of you, considering history sides with me...but this isn't the venue to school you. Go make a post in D&D and see what comes out in the wash.
 

DeletedUser3

Well, fun topic. Just to run with this part: "electricity, the telephone, computers, automobiles, space travel"

Electricity
Ancient Greeks identified electricity and pots were discovered in early Roman sites that strongly indicate these pots were 'batteries' used to provide lighting. I don't think the U.S. can claim discovery. Moving beyond that, we have such notable figures as William Gilbert (England, 1600s) who named it "electricity," Luigi Aloisio Galvani (Italian, 1700s) who pioneered bio-electricity (galvanic cell & galvanization anyone?), Alessandro Volta (Italian, 1800s) who invented the voltaic pile (battery) (volts and voltaic are named after him), Hans Christian Ørsted, (Dutch, 1800s) who identified a relation between electricity and magnetism, André-Marie Ampère (France, 1800s) who is credited with work on electromagnetism (of which the Ampere is named after him), Charles-Augustin de Coulomb (France, 1800s) gets credit for "Coulomb's Law," Georg Ohm (Germany, 1800's) known for "Ohm's Law" (and of course the measure of ohms), James Watt (Scotland, 1800's), who devised the concept of horsepower (the watt is named after him), James Clerk Maxwell (Scotland, 1800s) who united electrical/magnetic studies and decuded light was a product of such, Heinrich Hertz (German) who expanded upon Maxwell's work on light & electricity (the hertz being named after him). And then there's Alexander Graham Bell (Scotland, late 1800s), Nikola Tesla (Serbian) who did most of his inventions and discoveries before becoming a U.S. citizen in 1891, Michael Faraday (England), etc and so on. But there should definitely not be dismissed the works of Thomas Edison (U.S.) and Michael Morse (U.S.). Still, I would say it's a far cry to try and give the U.S. sole credit for the discoveries and inventions associated with electricity.

Telephone
The first discoveries should be handed to Carl Friedrich Gauß (Germany) and Wilhelm Eduard Weber (Germany) who invented the first electromagnetic telegraph, Charles Page (U.S.) who is credited for identifying the annoying ringing that phones are capable of, Innocenzo Manzetti (Italian) who is credited by many for inventing the telephone, Charles Bourseul (France) who authored work on music/voice telegraphing via electricity, Johann Reis (German) who invented an early phone capable of transmitting music and voice, etc and so on. Beyond this point, we're talking post-1930.

Computers
The first automated-mechanical computer was the Difference Engine, developed by Charles Baggage (England, mid 1800s). He also devised the first general mechanical computer, called the Analytical Engine, which more closely resembled the functions of modern day computers (it was never fully developed nor built). The first electro-mechanical programmable computer was devised by Conrad Zuse (German, 1936), called the Z1. The first electric programmable computer, the Colossus, was invented by Tommy Flowers (British, 1943). Since this contest was about "buildings" from 1880 to 1930, there's little need to address history.

Automobiles
First automobile was developed by Ferdinand Verbiest (Dutch, 1672), who created the first steam powered car (it was actually a toy, but it worked). Then there was Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot (French, 1769), and then Robert Anderson (Scotland, 1832), and then Carl Benz (German, 1885), and Gottlieb Daimler (German, 1886). Many others became involved after that, but the automobile was definitely "not" a U.S. invention and much of the most innovative designs came from nations other than the United States.

It is probably also important to point out that the assembly line, as utilized in the auto industry, was also not an American invention, at least not in the crediting sense. It was developed by Ransom Olds (Switzerland) for his America-based auto company, Oldsmobile. Going even further back, the assembly line concept for production was devised by Adam Smith (Scotland, 1777).

As to space travel, well we didn't participate in that one until well past 1930, and it was more an expensive venture to oppose the Soviet Union for supremacy of nothing, which helped us to develop technologies that we now take for granted every day. But look, in the U.S. we're just big consumers of everything and we use our petroleum-hog cars to drive to "third-world nation exploiting" Walmart to pick up our "now owned by Mexico" Twinkies. That really doesn't give us the card to claim we made the world, only that we ate it.

Now, it would have been nice if this contest reached to 1940, because then we could have included the 1939 Worlds Fair, which put "electricity" on the map as the future. But, such wasn't the case. The truth is that, between 1880 and 1930, the U.S. was not on top of the world. In fact, they were pretty much staying out of the rankings. It took a world recession and a second world war to pull the United States out of hermitage and into global dominance. So no, during 1880-1930 we were too busy exploiting our poor & wretched (birth of labor unions) and imprisoning our political enemies (confederates and native indians). During that timeframe Alcatraz was a military prison. In fact, it was our Guantanamo Bay of the 19th century. Should we be proud of that? Well I don't know, but we did make it an historical site and a National park, so maybe we are.
 

DeletedUser

Hellstrom: Why not just let everyone else in the world take credit for every good thing that was ever accomplished by an American and call the U.S. a non-producer of anything but criminals? Because that's what you're implying.

I'll give you the space travel issue, because it didn't happen until after the 1930 cutoff. But you might want to research The Louisiana Purchase Exposition, informally known as the St. Louis World's Fair, an international exposition held in St. Louis, Missouri, in 1904. THAT is where electricity was put on the map; not in 1939.

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/mohistory/3290943264/

To hear you tell it we shouldn't be proud of anything in our history and that is utter nonsense.
 

DeletedUser3

I am aware of the Palace of Electricity at the 1904 World's Fair, but that actually didn't put electricity on the map. It was the centerpiece at the fair, but just one building among others, such as the art palaces, the Palace of Education, Palace of Mines and Metallurgy, Palace of Liberal Arts, Palace of Machinery, and Palace of Manufactures. The Palace of Electricity became a prominent figure decades later for what it represented, but at the time it was considered an expensive novelty. Indeed, palaces of electricity were presented previously, as in the Chicago Worlds Fair in 1893 and the far more elaborate Palace of Electricity for the 1900 Worlds Fair in Paris (click here). But, during these times, as interesting and exciting it was to scientists and engineers, to everyone else it was considered an impractical and dangerous novelty.

I mentioned the 1939 Worlds Fair because it was almost entirely dedicated to the electricity theme and it made it abundantly clear, to the world (not merely scientists and engineers), that the age of electricity was upon them. Indeed, 4 years later we had the first modern (non-mechanical) computer.

In any event I'm not here to debate the issue. The initial post posed a list of discoveries, inventions, and explorations that the United States had almost no hand in during the timeframe of 1880 to 1930, which was the timeframe for this particular contest. My above post was addressing that because, quite frankly, there are a lot of nations in the world and it's unfair to them, and inappropriate for us, to claim credit for the work of others. The United States has a lot to be proud of, but we did not build the world, nor lead the way in many things, and we certainly weren't making earth-shattering contributions between 1880 and 1930.

Now, I am not keen on the choice of Alcatraz, not by a long shot and I posed my arguments against even presenting it as an option, but it was posed for a vote and the players made their choices. I think there were better choices and perhaps those choices were considered, but Forge of Empires is not U.S.-centric. Indeed, FoE is international in scope, with a strong European theme and an entry into the New World. Considering the timeline, the choice of any building from the U.S. is a surprise for me. Nonetheless, I will once again pose dissatisfaction at this choice, to the designers, and we'll see where it goes.



Something to consider -- the Empire State Building was completed in 1931...
 

DeletedUser4074

I'm a little bit miffed that Alcatraz actually won. Whatever its effect, it's not the kind of building I would want in my city - I think it would be a negative rather than a positive. I would have been okay with any of the other five finalists, though there were other suggestions I liked better. (Château Frontenac was the other winner.)
 
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DeletedUser4844

Agreed. I see Alcatraz as a sort of earlier version of Guantanamo Bay. Maybe we should have little Torture Chamber structures as well. At least we can hang some gallows and a graveyard nearby.
 

DeletedUser

Thank you Hellstromm. I don't mean to sound like a mean old hag. This just seemed very representative of the current trend to view the U.S. as a worthless nation that's contributed little to nothing of any real value to the world.
 

DeletedUser3

Yeah, well, I'm in the U.S. as well. I'm more inclined to think our petty political feuding is doing most of the damage to our viewed worth. But indeed, Alcatraz, what an odd choice. I am presently under the impression the designers see a great use for that particular building's representation in the game, which is why they included it in the shortlist for the vote. Perhaps the voters likewise saw potential for what it could potentially represent, as pertains to bonuses.

We'll see if the designers reconsider their choice here after my message to them. Although, to be quite honest, since it was posed for a public vote there's a slim chance it will be swapped for a different building. As well, considering it is just one building of many buildings, and the next age is likely to present more U.S. buildings, I think it's reasonable not to get too upset about this one.
 
What will be the bonus gained from the prison as a great building? My idea for a great building was a wind turbine, where the benefit would be decreased time a military unit heals...Create wind, the faster the turbine spins, the quicker a military unit heals. The speed of the wind would be determined by honor on the battlefield...A non plunderer would increase the speed, and a player that plunders, the speed of the wind would decrease, depending on how many people they plundered, and also the honor of whether the player steamrolls through all the weaker players in the pvp tourny, the wind would decrease, and the military unit wouldn't heal as fast, in contrast if you only attacked, say, the top 25, or 30, and motivated the rest of the neighborhood, the speed would increase, and the unit would heal quicker...If not a great building, I'd love to see a smaller version in a wind farm, that would be a production building...The turbines would spin, it'd be cool!
 

DeletedUser4823

In my personal opinion, I think it matters less who gets the credit for inventing any individual component, piece of equipment, or theory. You have to be able to produce it and deliver it in mass quantities or implement it in a fashion that serves a purpose. I believe nobody can take the credit away from the United States in that regard historically.
 

DeletedUser4072

Also the whole purpose of a great building is to give rewards not take tally of your actions and punish you for them. So as nice of an idea as you had jharoldb, I don't think a wind turbine that decreases is payout for people who plunder would be a good option plus it would be a lot of more work for the developers to keep tally of your daily plunder ratio to equate a new payout for that great building.
 

DeletedUser

No, It will not be changed. the progressive era is on it's way this month and while Alcatraz will not be available at the start, it is a definite that it is the second GB for the Era.
 
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