[Question] Great Buildings for Chilling in HMA?

[Mustapha00]

I'm thinking of getting to the High Middle Ages and just staying there to chill. Looking for peaceful/trading gameplay, I've been getting BP's for the Lighthouse of Alexandria (LoA). Which GB's should I have, and which ones should I stay away from?

P.S. For GB recommendations, I'm only interested in any GB's around the HMA. I kinda want to keep the theme and not have a futuristic structure in a medieval civilization; yes, I'm aware I'll be missing out on quite a few benefits from this theme choice.

While your scheme might not be quite unique, in a game in which many players seems to rush through the Ages as fast as they possibly can, it's a refreshing change from the norm.

It might have been mentioned by another poster, but are you planning on participating in the Events? From a power standpoint, Event rewards tend to verge on the very edge of being overpowered, as they render structures offered earlier in the game almost obsolete (as mentioned in another thread, Tribal Squares were once highly prized buildings- now, they're fodder for the Antiques Dealer). The one drawback with many of them is their aesthetic might well clash with your pursuit of "architectural purity".

Best of luck in your playstyle.

 

[DeletedUser36880]

While your scheme might not be quite unique, in a game in which many players seems to rush through the Ages as fast as they possibly can, it's a refreshing change from the norm.

It might have been mentioned by another poster, but are you planning on participating in the Events? From a power standpoint, Event rewards tend to verge on the very edge of being overpowered, as they render structures offered earlier in the game almost obsolete (as mentioned in another thread, Tribal Squares were once highly prized buildings- now, they're fodder for the Antiques Dealer). The one drawback with many of them is their aesthetic might well clash with your pursuit of "architectural purity".

Best of luck in your playstyle.

I'm not sure. Due to that "architectural purity" reason, I doubt I will. What do you think?

 

[Bitter Lily]

I stayed in HMA for over a year. I had Arc, SoZ, CdM, CoA, CF, LoA, SMB, HS, and ToR. The rest of my base was Event buildings, SoK's and Alchemists. Shortly before I advanced in age I built HC, TA, BG, and CC.

I highly recommend CF/LoA/SMB. You will need the coin and supply boost from LoA and SMB. I had my CF lvl 20 but wish I had leveled it much higher while in HMA.

SoZ/CdM/CoA are all good. SoZ is tiny and cheap to level. CdM has the FP bonus. CoA is the least important because it gives coins. But get all three to lvl 10 and you can fight your way through most of GE. (you said you're not focusing on fighting, but these GBs can still save you a lot of goods if you fight through GE rather than negotiate)

If you do GE then you should have ToR.

HS for happiness. There are better ways to get happiness, but i liked the FP/happiness combo.

eventually I had HC, TA, BG, and CC... CC is another one that would have been nice to have earlier. TA is not at all necessary if you're just arriving in HMA. BG is really nice if you have completed many special events and have a lot of Unique buildings, but it's not for everybody, and definitely not for a young base. HC is good, but not one that you need to focus on for now

I so wish people wouldn't make recommendations with abbreviations! Especially for someone who may be unfamiliar with the various GBs, and has asked for advice.

I can expand "I highly recommend CF/LoA/SMB." to "I highly recommend Chateau of Frontenac/Lighthouse of Alexandria/St. Mark's Basilica."
And I personally can agree with all of these except for the St. Mark's -- it's valuable, but I think you have to compare its footprint with an event set like the Cherry Blossom or Celtic Forest, and ask if it's better. I did that for my own city, after working hard to get the prints, and regretfully nixed it. Ember Umber, what is your opinion on the contrast?

And "SoZ/CdM/CoA are all good" expands to "Statue of Zeus/Castel del Monte/Cathedral of Aachen are all good."
Here I highly disagree with the Aachen. It's completely outside of the OP's goals. It may be that in some future Age, the OP & I will find out that the above GBs (plus a Temple of Relics) are insufficient sources of coin. But in the OP's Age, I can assure you, coin is the least thing to worry about. And Ember Umber, we're not trying to turn a Negotiator into a Fighter here! The Zeus (at a moderate level) and Castel (at as high a level as possible, for the FPs) will provide enough military boost for the occasional quest. Oh, I also build Sentinel outposts for in case I have to attack, and of course the other small buildings that aid my city's defense.

"If you do GE then you should have ToR." clearly expands to "If you do GE then you should have a Temple of Relics."
I agree, and in my answer I added something else that I believe is utterly essential for someone who does GE -- an Observatory. If you do GE, you're in a guild, and I believe you should be contributing to the guild's treasury. (Again, yes, to all the Arc believers, an Arc does this better, but we're not building an Arc here.)

Now, the next one is why I'm annoyed by the acronyms. I had to go look it up! "HS for happiness." HS stands for Hagia Sophia.
That is a GB I've looked at, and been horrified by the footprint! "There are indeed better ways to get happiness," you said, and two of them I recommended -- the Frauenkirche of Dresden, and the Gaea Statue, although I admit it can be hard to get prints for the second one. Those two combined do take up two extra valuable expansions, but instead of duplicating FP (which the Castel del Monte provides), they give you something you need more if you're parking as a Trader: goods & medals! I mentally put up to 1,000 FP into leveling the "HS" to see how much happiness I'd get, and it was 3,770. Then I checked the other two with only up to 500 FP invested apiece -- and got 7,260 or nearly twice as much happiness! In addition, instead of 3 FP, my mental self was getting 10 goods & 155 medals a day. For a trader who has parked? Much, much better. And once you've built the other two, the Hagia is clearly a waste of land.

As for the paragraph that begins with "eventually I had HC, TA, BG, and CC," all I can say is that OP need not figure out the acronyms. You, Ember Umber, did appropriately put them in an "eventual" category, because they are outside the architectural theme or the needs of a trader.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

Learning the abbreviations is part of learning the game. If someone doesn't understand them, they can ask and folks will happily expand them, or as you did, they can go look them up. No one is going to continually write them out. No way, no how.

 

[Bitter Lily]

I'm not sure. Due to that "architectural purity" reason, I doubt I will. What do you think?

Oh, on the contrary -- play them, play them, play them! The worst that happens is that you decide you don't want, let's say, a train in your city (from the Winter Event), and sell the upgrades & cars for big bucks in the Antique Dealer's. (Not the decision I made, I admit, and have had to go to some lengths to explain my Winter Train away -- but I just had to build it out of my love of trains!) Someone parking in the Iron Age does have reason to carefully consider each event. But you have had the sense to get to an age with the Antique Dealer's before you parked!

And you may well want to keep a lot of the event buildings I've seen. The Olympic Treasury from the Forge Football Event? Clearly appropriate (to me) and very, very powerful if you completed it. The Celtic Forest from the St. Paddy's Event to me is a lovely city park that is more valuable than some GBs.

I admit, the Bridge, Pagoda & Spring Garden cards from the current event may not suit your city if you haven't been doing Japanese settlements. (The wizard in my Black Tower handles the oceanic transportation for my city, and I strongly recommend the Japanese settlements for traders.) However, even so, you can sell them in the Antique Dealer's. Meanwhile, you can pick up valuable 1x1 buildings that aid your city's defense. One even adds to your going-out and attacking, for when you have to do so for quests. Others aid your city's defense. They're really valuable for us non-fighters, because we can sprinkle them in spots where we can't fit a building in. And there's Wishing Wells, if you're going that route.

Have I gotten you excited about Events? It's not too late to participate in the Spring Event, just for a bit.

 

[Mustapha00]

I'm not sure. Due to that "architectural purity" reason, I doubt I will. What do you think?

I'll build a bit on what Bitter Lily said above.

There is nothing at all that requires you to place any Event buildings you acquire. You can participate in order to earn other rewards that might well fit in, like Shrines of Knowledge, or Forge Points, Medals and Goods, and the like.

In the context of the current Event, you could do the quests in order to earn Lanterns and then spend them on 'purchasing' the origami critters on the lily leafs on the pond. Each of them comes with their own set of rewards, from buildings to boost potions to unattached military units and more.

 

[DevaCat]

Learning the abbreviations is part of learning the game. If someone doesn't understand them, they can ask and folks will happily expand them, or as you did, they can go look them up. No one is going to continually write them out. No way, no how.

Yep, won't happen. If I was on a PC and had a lovely keyboard and could exercise my touch typing skills, I might be tempted to expand sometimes for clarity. But with hunt and peck on an ersatz keyboard, no thanks.

 

[DeletedUser40883]

I so wish people wouldn't make recommendations with abbreviations! Especially for someone who may be unfamiliar with the various GBs, and has asked for advice.

I can expand "I highly recommend CF/LoA/SMB." to "I highly recommend Chateau of Frontenac/Lighthouse of Alexandria/St. Mark's Basilica."
And I personally can agree with all of these except for the St. Mark's -- it's valuable, but I think you have to compare its footprint with an event set like the Cherry Blossom or Celtic Forest, and ask if it's better. I did that for my own city, after working hard to get the prints, and regretfully nixed it. Ember Umber, what is your opinion on the contrast?

You had a lot of bad logic there, but the only thing I need to address is this- the OP wants peaceful/trading gameplay so the CF/SMB/LoA combo is essential. I was making 300+ goods per day with CF (lvl 10) and that's not possible without the other two.
If expansions are an issue for you, then you need to earn more medals. Considering that you can scrap all your goods buildings and houses when you have a functioning CF, the three GBs I suggested aren't that big. If he's trading rather than fighting, he doesn't need barracks... To tie that into your comment about CoA- after negotiating your way through GE several weeks in a row, your unattached troops are adding up. You spent your goods to get those troops, now you can use those troops in GE to save your goods. But you will need some military booths. This is a long-term game, everything you do today may not benefit you tomorrow, so plan well and invest wisely

HS is a huge building. But to make it's worth its space you increase the level to 8ish. Then it gives you the same FP production as SoKs, for the land requirement. That does take an investment of time and fp, but this is a long-term game. You want to build something that will last and doesn't have to be redone later. Look at high level bases, HS is common. FoD is not. Neither is Capitol, Gaiea, colloseum, and other happiness GBs.

 

[Bitter Lily]

Sorry for the time delay on replying!

Hagia Sophia is common and Gaea is not, because most players want to combine fighting & negotiating to save goods. The OP specifically wants a negotiation-only strategy. Without Alcatraz or Hagia, there's a happiness problem (I'm told). Gaea helps with that AND it produces medals for expansion.

 

[ExtraMile]

Hagia Sophia is common and Gaea is not, because most players want to combine fighting & negotiating to save goods.

Hagia is common and Gaea is not because Hagia produces FP, while Gaea produces medals.

The OP specifically wants a negotiation-only strategy.

There is no reason why Hagia wouldn’t benefit a player following a negotiation only strategy.

Gaea helps with that AND it produces medals for expansion.

Building Gaea is never a good choice. An Arc provides more medals than a player will ever need. The Gaea Statue is a waste of FP and space, and one of the worst GBs in the game.

 

[Bitter Lily]

Building Gaea is never a good choice. An Arc provides more medals than a player will ever need. The Gaea Statue is a waste of FP and space, and one of the worst GBs in the game.

So what you're saying is that you don't see a Gaea everywhere because you do see Arcs everywhere. For those iconoclasts like me & the OP, going without an Arc makes the Gaea essential.

 

[Bitter Lily]

You had a lot of bad logic there, but the only thing I need to address is this- the OP wants peaceful/trading gameplay so the CF/SMB/LoA combo is essential. I was making 300+ goods per day with CF (lvl 10) and that's not possible without the other two.

HS is a huge building. But to make it's worth its space you increase the level to 8ish. Then it gives you the same FP production as SoKs, for the land requirement. That does take an investment of time and fp, but this is a long-term game. You want to build something that will last and doesn't have to be redone later. Look at high level bases, HS is common. FoD is not. Neither is Capitol, Gaiea, colloseum, and other happiness GBs.

The problem with looking at high-level cities is that they were developed before the event buildings of the recent past. I've only seen the older event buildings in the Antique Dealer's -- but for a lot of them I marvel at the idea that anyone would ever build one. These days they're all worth the space they take up! (In fact, even last year's Winter Train failed the competition with this year's Airship, and since the latter was more consistent with my architecture, I've yanked my beloved train with tears in my eyes.)

I go back to the notion that you have to compare a land-hog like St. Mark's or Hagia Sophia not with regular buildings or even other GBs, but with recent event buildings -- which also hog land! I still think the GBs fail. And so do even Level 2 Shrines of Knowledge, I might add. Ember, can you please compare the two GBs you favor with the Olympic Treasury, the Mikawa Bridge, & the Airship?

 

[Nicholas002]

So what you're saying is that you don't see a Gaea everywhere because you do see Arcs everywhere. For those iconoclasts like me & the OP, going without an Arc makes the Gaea essential.

You do not need an arc to get a ton of medals from contributing to other players GBs. If you are in a guild with some higher level arcs, or have some on your friends list, you can get thousands of medals per day by taking P4s and P5s with a few FPs. The Gaea on level 10 only gives 367 medals per day, and it take thousands of FPs to get it there. Wisely placing those thousands of FPs on high level arcs, you could make 100s of thousands of medals, if not millions.

 

[Bitter Lily]

You do not need an arc to get a ton of medals from contributing to other players GBs. If you are in a guild with some higher level arcs, or have some on your friends list, you can get thousands of medals per day by taking P4s and P5s with a few FPs. The Gaea on level 10 only gives 367 medals per day, and it take thousands of FPs to get it there. Wisely placing those thousands of FPs on high level arcs, you could make 100s of thousands of medals, if not millions.

That's a great point! What about the Happiness, though? Remember, we're foregoing an Alcatraz because we're not interested in fighting.

 

[Nicholas002]

That's a great point! What about the Happiness, though? Remember, we're foregoing an Alcatraz because we're not interested in fighting.

As for happiness... in my main city, all my happiness comes from roads and event buildings. I have no happiness GBs (yet) and no cultural buildings or decos.
However, like you said, many event buildings do not fit in your aesthetical goals.

 

[DeletedUser40883]

The problem with looking at high-level cities is that they were developed before the event buildings of the recent past. I've only seen the older event buildings in the Antique Dealer's -- but for a lot of them I marvel at the idea that anyone would ever build one. These days they're all worth the space they take up! (In fact, even last year's Winter Train failed the competition with this year's Airship, and since the latter was more consistent with my architecture, I've yanked my beloved train with tears in my eyes.)

I go back to the notion that you have to compare a land-hog like St. Mark's or Hagia Sophia not with regular buildings or even other GBs, but with recent event buildings -- which also hog land! I still think the GBs fail. And so do even Level 2 Shrines of Knowledge, I might add. Ember, can you please compare the two GBs you favor with the Olympic Treasury, the Mikawa Bridge, & the Airship?

I will try and I'll reference this post eventually. I'm going to compare HS vs. Olympic Treasury, Mikawa, and Airship combo. The primary points i can argue are FP production, land requirements, and accessibility. The buildings you mentioned provide additional benefits, but I can't compare all of that in a fair way by using math. The 'additional benefits' are mostly goods, coins, and happiness. The goods are nice, but it's not that much. We're not building anything for the extra coins, right? And we don't care about the happiness boost.

- One way to look at it, Olympic Treasury + Mikawa + Airship give a total of 27 FP per day. That's the equivalent of a HS at level 44. HS takes up less space than those three buildings.

- Second, Hagia Sophia is available to everybody, even new players. You have to collect the prints, but being a GB from EMA, the prints and goods are accessible to even new players starting out. The Events that gave us the special buildings have passed. Eventually they may be available from AD, or from selection kits in future events. But earliest we may see these buildings offered again is next year (assumption based on recent events offering selection kits for Event buildings of last year).

- Third, you can continue leveling HS to get more FP than you would from the three Event buildings. Hagia Sophia (level 55) gives 33 FP daily. The guide that I linked makes some assumptions, such as you are receiving 1.9x donations. It's a big investment to get to level 55 (10,953 FP if you're using a 1.9 group). But HS is also one of the cheaper GBs to level up, and one of the quickest ROI's (return on investment). So if you look at the guide that I linked, you break even after 332 days. That's a long time, but it's faster than waiting on your Event buildings to be offered again.

I could break it down to how many FP are produced per square, but i don't think that's practical. One of the best arguments for GBs is if that you can always level them up. Generally speaking, any GB below level 10 is a waste of space. In the mid-20s, each GB level gets cheaper for the owner (still talking 1.9 groups). GBs reach 'max effectiveness' in the mid-50s, meaning additional levels are increasingly expensive for diminishing returns. Event buildings are generally on par with a lvl 10 GB, and they stay at that level forever.

In terms of FP and landsize, you can break even with your HS investment before you can obtain the three Event buildings. If you already have the Event buildings, it would be a terrible choice to get rid of them and build an HS. I highly doubt anybody is going to level up HS fast enough to break-even in eleven months, but I still think you will break even on your HS investment before you can get all 3 Event buildings leveled.