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Guild Battlegrounds Arrival Feedback

  • Thread starter DeletedUser4770
  • Start date

AutomatedTeller

New Member
I really like GBG - only thing I'd like changed is that the inner provinces should be harder to take than the outer ones, because the only good strategy seems to be to drive to the middle, since the inner ring is so much more valuable than the outer ring. Holding an inner province for 4 hours and losing it

I think the system of moving up and down is great. Sure, you can get kicked in the teeth in a higher league - but the rewards you get for finishing last in a league are better than the rewards you get for winning the lower league.

I suppose a guild can lock you out of taking any provinces by taking all of them and building traps, etc in the ones surrounding you - but that hurts them, since they cannot do anything after that, so they lose out on tons of rewards - my guild is in gold, and last night, I played 8 rounds and got FP twice. Winning by dominating the league is no better than winning closely and winning is barely better than being 2nd, anyway.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
I cannot get an actual answer. Some speculations, only.

Guild ranking looks really screwed up. A non-sense. Can anyone provide an actual formula how it is calculated now?
Neither of those are speculation. They are the actual formula and the actual numbers.
 

DeletedUser34480

Neither of those are speculation. They are the actual formula and the actual numbers.
We are probably talking about different things. Your link is not not exact, but I believe it leads to MMR? I was talking about guild ranks.
Check out a screen shot attached. I picked just ones that look totally ridiculous to be so high. Otherwise, most of the chart is questionable.
And, it's not just our guild. I see couple of strong guilds, with sizeable GvG possessions (not just couple sectors overall) that are below that #51 rank holder.
PS. To remind, we are 10 levels higher, same leagues. While we were leading our GBG group, we were still 88 or something.

GuildRanks.jpg
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
We are probably talking about different things. Your link is not not exact, but I believe it leads to MMR? I was talking about guild ranks.
Check out a screen shot attached. I picked just ones that look totally ridiculous to be so high. Otherwise, most of the chart is questionable.
And, it's not just our guild. I see couple of strong guilds, with sizeable GvG possessions (not just couple sectors overall) that are below that #51 rank holder.
PS. To remind, we are 10 levels higher, same leagues. While we were leading our GBG group, we were still 88 or something
Rank / Name / Prestige / Level / Members

51
flag_6tn.jpg
Strange Brew9,6932710

64
flag_28_Rtn.jpg
Blazing Rose9,08733130

77
flag_27_Rtn.jpg
<(*.*)> <(*.*)>8,5501820

86
flag_14tn.jpg
Emperors Children8,16131320
 

Vger

Well-Known Member
We are probably talking about different things. Your link is not not exact, but I believe it leads to MMR? I was talking about guild ranks.
You are not talking about different things. You are just not understanding how MMR impacts prestige, and how that correlates to guild rank.
The first link RP gave you is an EXACT answer to your question about how acron could have a higher rank than you. All the numbers are there. You got more points than acron for guild level. You got more points than acron for GVG. They got LOTS more points than you because of MMR from GBG. That is why they are ranked higher. The same will be true for the other examples you pulled up. It's simple math. You might not like the formula INNO is using here, but at least understand the math before you try to complain that it is somehow 'unfair'.
 

DeletedUser29933

What would thoughts be on guild manager's ability to reset effort on a particular sector?
we are still plagued with one player accidentally hitting a sector and placing a flag then being followed by others thinking that is the target.
 

Super Catanian

Well-Known Member
What would thoughts be on guild manager's ability to reset effort on a particular sector?
*(Sector only a few advances from conquering completely)*
*(Guild manager resets everything)*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

we are still plagued with one player accidentally hitting a sector and placing a flag then being followed by others thinking that is the target.
If you can't use Group Messages to inform your members where to focus, you need to fix that. In my Guild, there are a number of stray flags in various Provinces. However, that does not matter. I simply post in a thread where we must focus our efforts. As the GBG General, I make sure to take the initiative. And, what happens? That Province gets conquered shortly after. So if your Guild thinks that they should advance anywhere there is a flag at, rather than focusing their efforts, that needs to be fixed. But then again, that makes it easier for the rest of us that actually put these strategies to work how they should be.
 

Flavius Belisarius

Active Member
What would thoughts be on guild manager's ability to reset effort on a particular sector?
we are still plagued with one player accidentally hitting a sector and placing a flag then being followed by others thinking that is the target.
CPT Kirk, Guild Leadership is a fragile beast. While FOE is NOT Real Life, Life in FOE operates under the same rules Human Intercourse always has.
First, the Leaders need to have the cooperation of the members. Would you tolerate failure to follow instructions in your work place. How you would handle that is how your Guild should work. Their are many players, but joining a Guild requires commitment to a common goal. I would rather have people I trust to war-game with, than people with lots of resources. In FOE, you can't make people do what the Guild wants. Do you allow Guildees to play GE w/o contribution? Do you let Guildees to not play?
Second, Understand the GVG/GBG mini-games. In both, rogue actions cause problems. Do you allow the Guildees to attack friends or allies? If you don't care about diplomacy, fine; but do you care if their actions cause others to attack or plunder your Guild?
Do your Guildees understand AND want to support your Guilds goals in GBG? In my Guild, for now, we fight like hell one session )and advance a League drawing tougher opponent), then hardly fight at all the next to drop back a league. During drop back we concentrate on GE and pursue our proprietary GVG strategy. If you don't like what the Founder/Leaders are trying to do, your free to leave. I help players find Guilds more to their liking. If this dislike of Guild Goals causes Drama, you are asked to leave.
Third, its a game. Guilds are a team. Teamwork wins. Building a team is not point and click, it is about building relationships based on trust in a common goal.
 

DeletedUser29933

we try. we are killers in GE with 97 weeks of undefeated gold. not much need for check in before action there. we knew what to expect in GbG from beta and shared all the information we could prior to its arrival. we set up and actively maintain our target designation thread, have a discussion thread to share strategy and get feedback, discuss timing etc. We are not a "strong" guild and can't afford to have misdirected efforts. I am a huge fan of a more detailed log. I'm not looking to be more restrictive and inhibit any players effort or interest but it is nice to know where to direct attention when a plan is provided and not supported. I also have to agree no one wants to sacrifice speed due to logs eating memory and bandwidth. We have enough problems with maps not updating during active effort as it is. Our members want to work to support the plan. I get msgs like "sorry, was on break and wanted to get some in quick...saw the flag, it made sense, i went for it, didn't realize someone dropped it by accident" I know there are many hard charging guilds out there absolutely killing it in battlegrounds but many of us are just cat herders trying to keep everyone pointed in the same direction. We teach who we can, help who will be helped and yes, anyone not interested in how our group of like minded individuals are working together a certain way for specific objective, we send on their way to find an environment more suited to them. We don't want battlegrounds to be gvg 2.0, we barely touch gvg except to poke around and chase battle points if someone wants We are just asking for one of 3 things to make it possible for the few trying to coordinate efforts to keep up what is happening in their guild. 1 Directive control - ok, no one wants gbg to be gvg and all should be able to act as they see fit so that is ruled out. 2 Restrictive control - map is wide open unless a sector is blocked for whatever reason lots of room for abuse by some i suppose though i suspect it wouldn't take long for one who abused such restrictions finding them short members. 3. Supervisory ability - No one wants to be told what to do, no one wants to be stopped from doing it, then at least let managers see who the heck is doing what so they can determine if that player's efforts is in line with guild intent or a correction is needed yet we only have so much memory and bandwidth so there's plenty of opposition to logs. What does that leave managers or ability monitor performance within the guild or make changes if needed?

The ability to pull a flag helps correct oops and prevent follow up oops. It doesn't force a player to do something else they may not want to do, doesn't stop a player from doing anything, doesn't cost anyone rewards and it shouldn't be a burden on platform resources.
Not having any measure to direct/restrict/monitor in some way has our guild going nuts trying to figure out who one maybe two bad apples are in our orchard.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
4. Accept things for the way they are and get over it. Keep working with your guild and stop getting upset when folks don't treat it like a job. Be okay with members, coming in on break to hit stuff.

The world will not end over a few errant flag. If that causes you to drop a spot or two, you likely weren't going to be able to hold that spot anyway.

Queue Frozen song ...
 

DeletedUser29933

You're right, we could get over it. But we play a game with a competitive platform that has a forum to voice our concerns as we encounter them. If we all just "got over it" the game wouldn't improve much and you wouldn't have much to talk about.
.

edit..i take that back...i can't even begin to let anyone think i feel some of the recent changes we have seen driven from here are anything close to resembling an improvement. Just bothers me to think how many don't voice their concerns because every idea presented gets tore up if it doesn't align with view of the world from a specific few.
 
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DeletedUser34480

Edited:

RP, I guess I thank you for a table: it is more visible.

....
It's simple math. You might not like the formula INNO is using here, but at least understand the math before you try to complain that it is somehow 'unfair'.
Vger, you've written how many words? A short example would help way better.
I've asked for formula, it didn't look like a formula to me. I thought link didn't point to right place. So, I just needed to understand, that is a formula, just with unknown variable.

There is this MMR that no one seen, so whether you add 140 to X, or you subtract 140 from X -- you'd still have no idea where you are because we don't know what X was initially or what X currently is.

Is that now a simple math? More like shallow, to me.

How did we know, btw, that "they" (who? all of them?) got LOTS more points because of MMR in GBG? What those two guilds with 1 and 2 members done? Conquered a half of their map to outshine all other numbers?

PS. Acron definition, the unsegmented, preoral portion of the body of an arthropod.

PPS. I probably need to clarify why I've put 140. I've began googling for "mmr" in FoE. Got this, apparently, it is from game designer.
As an example, for a battleground with 8 participants it could look like this:
1st: +140 MMR
2nd: +100 MMR
3rd: +60 MMR
4th: +20 MMR
5th: -20 MMR
6th: -60 MMR
7th: -100 MMR
8th: -140 MMR
(these are just example numbers and don't quite reflect the real ones)
What a joke! Not only we don't know neither initial MMR, nor a current one. We don't even know how MMR would be calculated in a given map, LOL!
 
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RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
I've asked for formula, it didn't look like a formula to me. I thought link didn't point to right place. So, I just needed to understand, that is a formula, just with unknown variable.

What a joke! Not only we don't know neither initial MMR, nor a current one. We don't even know how MMR would be calculated in a given map, LOL!
I linked for you the EXACT formula used to to calculate MMR. Hell, I even linked to you your exact MMR. That you don't like the formula or can't figure out the math is irrelevant.
There is this MMR that no one seen, so whether you add 140 to X, or you subtract 140 from X -- you'd still have no idea where you are because we don't know what X was initially or what X currently is.
While MMR is not published, it can be calculated at the end of each round. You were even given the numbers for your's and the other guild. That you don';t 'believe' them is irrelevant.
How did we know, btw, that "they" (who? all of them?) got LOTS more points because of MMR in GBG? What those two guilds with 1 and 2 members done? Conquered a half of their map to outshine all other numbers?
Those other guilds, regardless of members, have obviously done enough to get more prestige leading to a higher rank, or ar you accusing them of cheating? Are you saying there's a way to game the system to get a rank they don't deserve?

There is not, and they have not.

No matter what combination of factors got them there, (which you can figure out for yourself using the formula provided) they've got higher numbers, so they've obviously done better than you. But, I can understand your upset. It must be highly embarrassing to have your 33 member guild bested by guilds with 1, 2, and 3 members. Ouch.

Seems you've got your work cut out for you, regardless of whether or not you like, or understand the formula ,or the MMR system.
 
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RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
You're right, we could get over it. But we play a game with a competitive platform that has a forum to voice our concerns as we encounter them. If we all just "got over it" the game wouldn't improve much and you wouldn't have much to talk about.
"Waaaah! Waaaah! Waaaah!"
edit..i take that back...i can't even begin to let anyone think i feel some of the recent changes we have seen driven from here are anything close to resembling an improvement.
Which specific changes driven from here are you talking about? Or you making this up because folks don't support you?
Just bothers me to think how many don't voice their concerns because every idea presented gets tore up if it doesn't align with view of the world from a specific few.
You mean the world view that we don't need any of the tools you're asking for, consider that a competitive advantage, so we don't want anyone who can't figure it out without those tools, as we have, to have the tools you're asking for?

The world view that says, we play a game in a competitive platform and are simply better than you? That world view?
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
"Waaaah! Waaaah! Waaaah!"

I've gotta call you out on this one, RP. For everyone requesting additions to GBG for managing/tracking individual member actions more closely, you're the one who sounds more like you're whining because you inevitably come in to try talking them down. Anything that gets added to GBG in this capacity is for leadership's sake. If you're not a leader, is it going to affect you? Do you have to worry about it? If you feel like these additions WOULD affect you, perhaps there's a possibility that you quietly acknowledge that there's a problem with the way you're currently doing things?
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
If you're not a leader, is it going to affect you? Do you have to worry about it? If you feel like these additions WOULD affect you, perhaps there's a possibility that you quietly acknowledge that there's a problem with the way you're currently doing things?

I tend to agree, and I've said before (and I've been guilty of it myself) that people shouldn't argue with anybody in a feedback thread. The purpose of the thread is for players to express their opinions and not for the rest of us to convince them they're wrong.

Just bothers me to think how many don't voice their concerns because every idea presented gets tore up if it doesn't align with view of the world from a specific few.

We can be rough on proposals, yes. Because many of them are from new-ish players who don't fully grasp the game yet and/or they are short-sighted solutions to a handful of players' shortcomings and/or they're just silly; and much of the time the snark is started by the OP of a proposal thread when somebody dares to disagree with them. We long-timers have seen many of these suggested changes come through here several times by now and that can be frustrating.

As I said, it's my opinion that debate should be rare in a feedback thread, but I don't think anybody should apologize for it in the Proposals section. To many of us, the issue with allowing guild leaders the sole power to dictate GBG undercuts its very purpose, which is accessibility to everyone and the ability to play it when they are able. That's why the arguments against it are so vociferous.

To to answer your question, qaccy: yes, even though we aren't guild leaders this proposal does affect us, greatly. With tight controls guild leaders would shut us out of rewards and participation. I think it would hasten the demise of GBG; if players can't participate when and how they are able, they're likely to forego it completely.

I realize this is an argument of sorts in a feedback thread, but I though it important to address your point about the attitude around here lately.
 
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DeletedUser

Anything that gets added to GBG in this capacity is for leadership's sake. If you're not a leader, is it going to affect you? Do you have to worry about it? If you feel like these additions WOULD affect you, perhaps there's a possibility that you quietly acknowledge that there's a problem with the way you're currently doing things?
They are definitely for leadership's sake, not for the members'. But they would affect everyone because the leaders would use them to more tightly control players' freedom to act in GBG. And nobody opposed to these logs/controls, least of all @RazorbackPirate, is acknowledging that there is any kind of problem. The ones calling for logs/controls are clearly the ones that (mistakenly) think that there is a problem.
 
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